Engine won't keep alive!

[bimmerboxer]

Need some help on an issue that's probably been covered before.

Went on a trip, semi off road some 250 km. Bike ran sweet.
After the second day, had the bike hosed down, pretty enthusiastically but only in proportion to the mud covered 1150GS.

The third morning, got geared up, got on the bike, off the stands, ignition on and flicked the starter. The fuel pump primed, engine cranked, even caught (fired up) on a couple of turns but wouldn't keep alive.

It held idle sometimes for a few seconds then died. Even if at idle and I would crack open the throttle, the engine would die.

I rule out the battery (it cranked some dozen times before it started to weaken. I even had it connected to a car battery and it still wouldn't start) or the starter. I also removed, cleaned and replaced the spark plugs. As it had fired, I rule ignition too save for maybe a weaker spark then usual.

So it has to be fuel, some motronic, electronic or hall sensor( likely due to the wash) thats the problem. I rule out the fuel filter (though I'm going to replace it), injectors or frayed wiring as there were no issues building before this as it was running perfectly.

If its the wash, what should I dry out, wipe, check, replace or test. Any one or combination of the above??

(PS please don't just use acronyms, I'm not that savvy and need to know where its is located as well). Thanks

Tony in Java

 

[Steptoe]

Just a thought - In your enthusistic washing could you have dislodged one the throttle cables. Picture below

To do a basic check of the hall sensor remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear, turn the ignition on and turn the rear wheel so the engine revolves - - does the fuel pump prime on and off as the engine turns ?? if not it could be the hall sensor.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Ah Ha! I read this in the other threads. Not the cables as I have had my share of experiences riding with them (cable housing dislodged) for over 300km. First thing I check for. Is the Hall Sensor under the cover at the front of the engine , where the pulleys and alternator belts are???

Me thinks it could be water in the tank now!!

 

[columbus]

Symptoms are the same as mine. It was the Hall sensors. Yes they are under the front cover.

 

[bimmerboxer]

My worst fears. Could I dry it up or do I need a replacement??

 

[bimmerboxer]

Does this help???

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

 

[bimmerboxer]

Also, as I'm reading, I remember my fuel pump running on for at least 3 to 6 seconds AFTER cranking. This should indicate a Hall effect presence.

 

[Steptoe]

Me thinks it could be water in the tank now!!

Put your bike on the side stand leave it for 10 mintues and then try starting it.

If there is water in the tank it'll run over to the left hand side of the tank while the bike is on the side stand and then it should start as the pump is on the righthand side. .
If there is a lot of water in the tank once you put it back on the main stand or ride it for a couple of miles the water flows back and the biuke will start to mis-fire again .

I've had this happen on two customers bikes. Both thought it was temperature related as the bike started ok, then after riding it for 5 minutes and getting a couple of bars on the temp guage they would misfire - it was water in the tank - the bikes were parked on their side stands, started up ok and then were riden which meant the water flowed back over to where the fuel pump picks it up .

 

[bimmerboxer]

Thanks Steptoe and ALL. Will put all this advice to test and keep you updated.


Great Forum!!!!

 

[bimmerboxer]

First things first. The bike is at a house some 2 hours away so I cannot work on it at leisure. Made a trip there yesterday and these are the steps I took.

Tried starting it (left it on a battery charger). Didn't fire up.
Took off the tank and emptied it. Fuel look funky with water. Changed the filter as well since I was at it and put in some 3 litres of petrol.

Still couldn't start.

Did the remove the spark plugs and push the bike in gear with ignition on. Hall sensors seems to work fine.

Removed the injectors and cranked the engine. Passed the test.

Couldn't start.

Checked the sparks again. OUCH!!! Got a whopping shock from holding the rubber boot of the right spark cable.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Leaking Charge perhaps???

Anyways, I think I murdered the Starter as it now refuses to crank smoothly even with a full battery charge.

Am planning to return tomorrow with a new fuel pump, a starter, some wiring (in case its the Halls sensor) and trying to borrow some ignition cables and coil.


Wish me Luck!!!

 

[dancata]

These starters could have a long and happy life iw owners would not keep the button pushed for more than 5 sec at a time. If it doesn't start in 5 sec, you have a problem, why adding another starter problem to the one you already have?

Dan.

 

[bimmerboxer]

I had the peace of mind in having a spare rebuilt starter. Obviously I didn't learn my lesson the first or second time.

I'm wondering quite a bit on the short from the spark cable. Some say it would cause the engine to run badly but that it would start.

Could it be a faulty pump with insufficient pressure due to running dirty fuel?

FYI, here in Indonesia, on my rides to remote areas, right proper petrol stations aren't always abundant and if there is one, it is more often than not, empty. Of course, high octane fuel is a luxury and additives are mandatory on the "things to pack" list.

However there's always a wooden shack nearby with cans of fuel for sale at 1.5 times the price at the pumps.

You see, when stocks roll in, the locals will queue at the pumps and fill up huge Jerry Cans for the purpose of selling them off at wooden shacks just described, at a tidy profit.

Sometimes, the fuel is adulterated with Kerosene to increase the profit margin.

ARE YOU AGHAST NOW????? Well lucky you and its probably time to thank your government and its stifling laws.

So it seems that I am somewhat a victim of these practices.

No, I am not complaining for remote inaccessible areas brings true meaning to Adventure touring.

Just need to get my bike running so I can ride it home. HELP!!

 

[cookie]

I'm wondering quite a bit on the short from the spark cable. Some say it would cause the engine to run badly but that it would start.

that probably happened because you let the plug body move away from whatever it was grounded on. the spark will jump to the nearest earth (you).

the trick is to hold the plug, not the cap, and ensure it is ALWAYS grounded.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Thanks! All this info is very very helpful! Will update as I progress on this particular adventure!

 

[topcat2006]

I had real problems with my bike starting and running and being very intermittent with it too.

I eventually traced it to the plate in the starter motor coming off the starter gearbox and shorting agains the windings. I removed the plat and all has been well since.....

I think as it was shorting all the time (There were huge holes in the plate) it was dragging the voltage down so much the bike was turning too slowly and or causing the ECU to think there was a fault due to a low battery voltage (Not sure if the ECU is capable of doing this....)


Regards

Tom

 

[bimmerboxer]

Worked on fixing the problem last Friday.

Checked the following.
1. Injector (Cranked and checked the suirts)
2. Sparks (Standard Procedure)
3. Hall Sensor (Traced wiring to check for damage)
4. Fuel Pump pressure by removing the fuel line and turning ignition on.

This after I replaced the
1.Fuel Pump
2.Starter
3.Plugs
4. Topped up Engine oil (about half a pint short)

IT STILL DOESN'T START!!!!

It seems to just fire but wouldn't catch. Exhausts were only just warm after a few cranks.

Had it towed away back to the City where some mechanics will have a look at it. I gave up trying to get it running to ride home (150km away) and I'm dying to find out the cause.

Wish me luck!!

 

[forry]

Here's a couple of vids of my bike when it wouldn't run turned out to be the hall sensor.

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[bimmerboxer]

Latest update

Checked again - Fuel and Spark.

Finally removed the Hall Sensor.
Cables looked fine and were not brittle or damaged at ALL.

Had it rewired (Don't ask me how but its been done here a number of times quite successfully).
Replaced the Hall Sensor and the problem was not fixed.

Took a Hall Sensor from a Donor Bike (1150 GSA) and tried it out.
The Bike started and Ran FINE!!

For those that wish to say "I told you so!!", please don't.
Initial tests, pushing the bike in gear with the ignition on showed the Hall Sensor, or rather the pump, moving in line with the engine turning. Also the fuel did look 'Funky'.
I guess the Signal from the Hall Sensors, if just off required levels, would affect the ECU enough to create this problem.

As for me now, waiting to order this NEW part #12117673277......

 

[bimmerboxer]

Innocent looking Ignition Trigger (Halls) sensor and its abode.

 

[bimmerboxer]

Halls Sensor arrived and had it installed.
Bike started up almost right away. Fantastic!! Took it up and down the street.
Now just need to brave a longer trip to rebuild my faith.


Looks like alternator belt needs replacement as well.

Cheers ALL>