Europe 2012

martinvrs

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Myself and a mate are half heartedly thinking of going to Europe in the Summer, but it'll be like the blind leading the blind.

I've never ridden further than the Yorkshire Dales, and my mates idea of a ride out is when he has to stop to refuel on a day out.

Looking at Rosslare - Cherbourg. Want to see Monaco. Few days touring, wouldn't mind the Stelvio pass.

get Calais - Folkestone then Cairnryan - Belfast.

Prefer camping to be honest, makes life cheaper.

Nothing is booked, its only ideas, maybe next week I'll want to be an astronaut.

Any advice? tips? what to avoid and what we should see. And what to budget for?

Mate has new 800 Tiger, and although he doesn't travel far he's over 20yrs riding under his belt.

Martin
 
Go back year after year...it's a big place!
If you want some campsite suggestions mid Germany, Bavaria, merano I can let You know where I stayed.
 
Want to see Monaco.

You may be dissapointed!

Unless your an F1 fan there is not much in Monaco, it is a crowded, congested hell hole with no parking and over inflated prices, however the coast is nice, this year we stayed on Menton (10 min ride from Monaco) which was very nice.

Why not check out the ride reports on this forum for more ideas, I have one from last year where we rode the Route Des Grand Alpes and stopped near Monaco

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279972

And the year before I went to the Stelvio - again this is unlikely to be a high point of the trip, but the Journey there is fantastic and there are so many other great passes you can work into the trip.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247181

Get the Motorcycle Journey's book for more inspiration - 300+ passes covered in 75 trips - and most trips require a day.

They are not close together though, I think what escapes a lot of people is just how big the Alps are (The size of England, Scotland and Wales) - you would not try and see all of the UK in one trip, and then add in the fact 90% of the UK roads are pretty crap, yet 90% of Alpine roads are better than the best 10% of UK roads and you can see you need a few months to "Ride the Alps"



The South Coast (and Route Des Grand Alpes) and the Stelvio is not an easy combo unless you have a lot of time, or just blat between the two.

RDGA starts around Annecy - a long days Motorway ride from Clais (500+ miles) so assuming you have a bit of travel to the crossing is likely to require 2 days travel.

Route Des Grand Alpes (RDGA) to the Coast can be done in two days, but I personally prefer to spend a couple of nights here and there for a days riding about, otherwise you will be pitching camp almost every night.

So after four manic days of riding and making / breaking camp you can go and see what a dump Monaco is (luckily this will only take 15 minutes to establish and you can go back down the beach and have a well deserved break)

Now off to the Stelvio, 350 miles of main routes and boredom would get you there in a day if that's what you want, but I would suggest going back up the French Alps taking in some different passes - my suggestion would be to take 3 days...

Work back up towards Bourg St Maurice, over the Saint Bernard passes, then head towards Andermatt taking in the Furka (Ideally stop for an extra day to ride around the Tremola, Nufenen, Grimsel and Susten) now go over the Oberalp and run down to St Moritz taking either the Julier (a great flowing ride) Albula (Tighter, bumpier and prettier) or Fluella (half way between the other two and my choice) then the last little run to Bormio and the edge of the Stelvio (I would choose Livigno to stop at) This is 3 days riding, two days to get to Andermatt and another day to Livigno / Bormio

As a whistlestop tour you are now 7 days in, I would suggest 10 days would be better to allow an extra day in Andermatt and two in the French Alps. You still have to ride the Stelvio and get home (another 2 days of mainly motorway and 650 miles) I would rather ride up through Germany and the Black Forest (still do-able in 2 days) but would also bag an extra night here and ride the B500 (an easy one to tick off the list on your way home)

So you need a minimum 4 days in / out of the Alps, 2 days to reach the coast, 3 days to reach the Stelvio and a day each at Monaco / Stelvio making a hurried 9 day trip and only staying at the same campsite for a second night twice. I really would suggest a minimum of 10 nights for this journey (and more if you can spare them)

Riding abroad is easy, if you have ridden for a day in the UK the same thing applies, the biggest difference is speeds, French motorways are fast and deserted compared to the UK, but Alpine roads are slow - still deserted, but with far more corners per mile than even the twistiest of UK routes, many of the corners being 1st or 2nd gear and views you just want to keep stopping to photogaraph / enjoy.

Plan for 30 mph moving average on the mountain routes (your unlikely to average as much as 40 on moutain roads) which gives a fair days riding of 180 - 210 miles (Under 7 hours riding, plus food / photo / fuel stops) I reckon on 15 minutes stopped for every hour riding + an extra 30 minutes for lunch on a leisurely day (and why go on holiday to have stressed days)

Motorways are fast, at a legal 83mph (130kph = @90 on the GS speedo) you will average about 65-70 genuine miles per hour after fuel / toll stops so 500 miles in a day is possible (if a shade boring) but gets you where you want to be real quick)

Personally I would go for the South Coast, or the Stelvio, and plan on ten days otherwise you spend 50% of your holiday on Motorways - I can't say which is best as they are both unbelievably awesome, and you wil want to keep coming back so you can do the other one next time, then the Dolomites the time after, and then Austria and Salzburg
 
Sound advice

..... I think what escapes a lot of people is just how big the Alps are (The size of England, Scotland and Wales) - you would not try and see all of the UK in one trip, and then add in the fact 90% of the UK roads are pretty crap, yet 90% of Alpine roads are better than the best 10% of UK roads and you can see you need a few months to "Ride the Alps"

I'll second that comment. I have been living here in Austria for nearly four years now and I am still finding great roads (and adding them to our database)
In fact you would need a few months just to ride our region, probably several summers to come anywhere near riding most of the interesting roads in the Alps. Otherwise you are just like the American tourist who "does" Europe in a week.

Oh, and I think Rasher deserves praise for his thorough and thoughtful response. Sometimes the stuff on here can be a little off putting to those of a nervous disposition.

John
 
did monaco from limoges after visiting millau

just another piece of hi rise coastal bit in france

hills above nice and n85 from grenoble only reason to go (had a pic of the bike on loews hairpin but cant find it :blast)

road from monaco into italy aint too bad

the bit from dignes thru the gorge tho :bow :love :moped
 
You may be dissapointed!

Unless your an F1 fan there is not much in Monaco, it is a crowded, congested hell hole with no parking and over inflated prices, however the coast is nice, this year we stayed on Menton (10 min ride from Monaco) which was very nice.

Why not check out the ride reports on this forum for more ideas, I have one from last year where we rode the Route Des Grand Alpes and stopped near Monaco

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279972

And the year before I went to the Stelvio - again this is unlikely to be a high point of the trip, but the Journey there is fantastic and there are so many other great passes you can work into the trip.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247181

Get the Motorcycle Journey's book for more inspiration - 300+ passes covered in 75 trips - and most trips require a day.

They are not close together though, I think what escapes a lot of people is just how big the Alps are (The size of England, Scotland and Wales) - you would not try and see all of the UK in one trip, and then add in the fact 90% of the UK roads are pretty crap, yet 90% of Alpine roads are better than the best 10% of UK roads and you can see you need a few months to "Ride the Alps"



The South Coast (and Route Des Grand Alpes) and the Stelvio is not an easy combo unless you have a lot of time, or just blat between the two.

RDGA starts around Annecy - a long days Motorway ride from Clais (500+ miles) so assuming you have a bit of travel to the crossing is likely to require 2 days travel.

Route Des Grand Alpes (RDGA) to the Coast can be done in two days, but I personally prefer to spend a couple of nights here and there for a days riding about, otherwise you will be pitching camp almost every night.

So after four manic days of riding and making / breaking camp you can go and see what a dump Monaco is (luckily this will only take 15 minutes to establish and you can go back down the beach and have a well deserved break)

Now off to the Stelvio, 350 miles of main routes and boredom would get you there in a day if that's what you want, but I would suggest going back up the French Alps taking in some different passes - my suggestion would be to take 3 days...

Work back up towards Bourg St Maurice, over the Saint Bernard passes, then head towards Andermatt taking in the Furka (Ideally stop for an extra day to ride around the Tremola, Nufenen, Grimsel and Susten) now go over the Oberalp and run down to St Moritz taking either the Julier (a great flowing ride) Albula (Tighter, bumpier and prettier) or Fluella (half way between the other two and my choice) then the last little run to Bormio and the edge of the Stelvio (I would choose Livigno to stop at) This is 3 days riding, two days to get to Andermatt and another day to Livigno / Bormio

As a whistlestop tour you are now 7 days in, I would suggest 10 days would be better to allow an extra day in Andermatt and two in the French Alps. You still have to ride the Stelvio and get home (another 2 days of mainly motorway and 650 miles) I would rather ride up through Germany and the Black Forest (still do-able in 2 days) but would also bag an extra night here and ride the B500 (an easy one to tick off the list on your way home)

So you need a minimum 4 days in / out of the Alps, 2 days to reach the coast, 3 days to reach the Stelvio and a day each at Monaco / Stelvio making a hurried 9 day trip and only staying at the same campsite for a second night twice. I really would suggest a minimum of 10 nights for this journey (and more if you can spare them)

Riding abroad is easy, if you have ridden for a day in the UK the same thing applies, the biggest difference is speeds, French motorways are fast and deserted compared to the UK, but Alpine roads are slow - still deserted, but with far more corners per mile than even the twistiest of UK routes, many of the corners being 1st or 2nd gear and views you just want to keep stopping to photogaraph / enjoy.

Plan for 30 mph moving average on the mountain routes (your unlikely to average as much as 40 on moutain roads) which gives a fair days riding of 180 - 210 miles (Under 7 hours riding, plus food / photo / fuel stops) I reckon on 15 minutes stopped for every hour riding + an extra 30 minutes for lunch on a leisurely day (and why go on holiday to have stressed days)

Motorways are fast, at a legal 83mph (130kph = @90 on the GS speedo) you will average about 65-70 genuine miles per hour after fuel / toll stops so 500 miles in a day is possible (if a shade boring) but gets you where you want to be real quick)

Personally I would go for the South Coast, or the Stelvio, and plan on ten days otherwise you spend 50% of your holiday on Motorways - I can't say which is best as they are both unbelievably awesome, and you wil want to keep coming back so you can do the other one next time, then the Dolomites the time after, and then Austria and Salzburg

good advice ..... follow that and you wont go far wrong :thumb2
 
Went solo to poland via rosslare - cherbourg last year and stayed in f1 hotels after camping the previous year on a trip to spain,the hotels were pretty basic but dead on and il not be doing the camping thing again as the hotels were handy and less kit to haul about.Worked out about 25-30 euro per night so not expensive but each to his own:aidan
 
Great ride reports and ideas there.

Merv, I assume F1 is the European version if Premier Inn?

Thanks for all the advice
 
Martinvrs,

Wife and I taking bikes down through centre of France. Mixture of 1 night stops in Etap and BB hotels.Both have ensuite bathrooms with breakfast from 35 to 60 euro for 2 people. Formule 1 cheaper. When we get to base, this year our stopover`s are Castellane for 4 nights , Briancon, 3nights and Lake Annecy 3 nights. Looked on google for campsites Municipal (all French Towns have them) are basic and cheap. In August no problem finding sites for 17 to 20 euros max. 2people 1 tent and two motos. Put several in my GPS marked on map.Not booking adds to excitement, just stop and look with plenty of daylight.
Camping allows us to go away for a bit longer.
Things to factor in.Breakdown Insurance and,travel insurance.Find a site to calculate Motorway tolls. Gets you there quicker but can really add up. You miss the best bits of France/Europe as well
:thumb

Go for it:D
 
Its all good Martin, just follow your nose. Great roads, great people. The French are motorcycle lovers.
Milau viaduct is a must and Route Napolion.
Check your insurance it probably has Europe cover if not you can get it with AA
Irish Ferries is a really nice crossing a mini cruise
I would avoid the French annual holiday period. I would go June or September
 
Just looked at the Viaduct on Google street view. It's something else. More impressive when you look at it from the lower road
 
Sounds good, I'm excited for you Martin. Some excellent advice. I've 8 nights in the highlands to look forward to in May but like yourself, keep on hankering after the idea of doing mainland Europe. My biggest fear is I've never driven/riden on the 'wrong' side of the road before. Good luck with your planning. :beerjug:
 
Brilliant, thanks for your help folks.

Just hope I carry this notion through and not have another idea in between.
 
Another view
 

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    Bike at Millau.jpg
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IMHO only, whilst the viaduct at Millau is a great piece of (British) engineering, having seen it I wouldn't advise anyone going out of their way to see just it.

The gorge du tarn however is a natural phenomenon that impresses, and leads you to or from the bridge depending on direction. Last time, I swam in the Tarn before brekky, and look forward to a day spent leisurely kayaking in years to come.

Bridge...no
Gorge...yes

Just my 2p :aidan
 
+1, lovely bridge, not really worth a 200 mile detour but well worth it if within reasonable grasp.

Pm me if you need maps, kit, advice whatever, my Corsica trip report mat be of some use, especially the example of a detailed route card :)
 


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