EWS/Ringantenna trouble again! Advice needed.

[jogo]

Hi,
on my 05 R12GS I had the Ringantenna changed last July under warranty after having had trouble with it.

Yesterday evening I went out for a quick ride. Stopped at a petrol station to refuel. The bike wouldn't start afterwards, EWS shining at me from the display.

This is what I tried with no result:
- Used the spare key (the plastic one)
- disconnected and reconnected the battery
- pushed the bike away from the station as far as I managed which was only 100-150m as the road goes uphill both directions. I seemed to remember people that had reported that the damned thing refused to work at a petrol station but worked again in some distance from there.

The petrol station where the bike still stands is not too far from where I live so I can easily go there to try something. However, its quit a distance to the dealer and as I may have to negotiate warranty questions I would like to avoid the expenses of having the bike transported to the shop. In addition I do not like the idea that people that love the bike much less than I do handling it on a trailer


Here my questions:

1. Is there anything else I could try to get the engine started (I do not have a spare ring antenna on hand).

2. I was under the impression that the ring antennas they put in under warranty exchange are somehow improved and did not expect any more trouble from that side. Are they as bad as the original ones so that one has to expect trouble from there once in a while?

3. Any thoughts on what I can expect from BMW warranty wise in the situation on hand?

Thanks a lot in advance and those who have, just enjoy the long weekend hopefully with a serviceable bike...

Joerg

 

[DrFarkoff]

Here my questions:

1. Is there anything else I could try to get the engine started (I do not have a spare ring antenna on hand).

Nope If EWS is on the display then you are buggered

The Antenna is the gateway to the Valhalla of 1200 ownership !

Once past the antenna and fuel pump controllers there is little to stop the 1200 and the road or field or whatever are yours

Contact the dealer and discuss collecting or them posting you a new ring then you can do the temporary fix by attaching it with your key taped inside and the plastic key to work the ignition

NOTE From memory the plastic key has no ID chip inside it so won't start the engine anyway from the ignition?

How many metal keys do you have?

Do you keep them seperate (I remember one of the instructions I was given when unpacking the first one into N ireland was to keep the keys seperate as more than one chip close by could confuse the ECU)

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Plastic key is chipped so should work.

The part number of the ring antenna that works ends in 247. July should have been the new one but could have been old stock. The new one does seem reliable and, if that is what you have, you have been very unlucky.

BM might change it under goodwill. Certainly worth a go.

 

[John Armstrong]

I'd do the "you changed my working bit for one that didn't, can I have one that does work in exchange?" approach.

Wallet key is chipped so should work just like the metal one.

 

[jogo]

Thank you very much for the very valuable input so far.

Following an advice here on the forum I always detach the ignition key from my keyring (using a snap-kook) before putting it into the ignition lock. So there is no disturbance from other keys.

As the ring antenna was exchanged under warranty I did not receive an invoice which would have stated the part number used. However I asked the dealer specifically to use the newest type and he had to order it. Anyway, I do not know for sure what p/n is installed.

Joerg

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Hi, don't give up. There are cases where thing would start after some hours, so try later.
I have an '04, no probs but I bought a spare dodah and plan to practice fitting it later today. Sheesh, that means for sure I will never need it!
Bin

 

[John Armstrong]

As the ring antenna was exchanged under warranty I did not receive an invoice which would have stated the part number used. However I asked the dealer specifically to use the newest type and he had to order it. Anyway, I do not know for sure what p/n is installed.

With my cynics head on, I wonder if they took one removed from another bike, polished it up, and then fitted it to your bike

 

[blobbs]

Surely if it was changed less than a year ago under warranty, then the ring antenna itself should still be under warranty

 

[John Armstrong]

Surely if it was changed less than a year ago under warranty, then the ring antenna itself should still be under warranty

AFAIK the fitting of a replacment part does not extend the warranty. So if the battery was changed one day before the 2 year warranty ended, the warranty for the battery is effectively one day But, if you pay something towards the battery / it being replaced, you get 2 years warranty on it

 

[Pukmeister]

The dealer should have logged the fitting of the new EWS antenna on the dealer database, so your dealers can find evidence of the date of replacement as easy as making a few mouse clicks.

Should be easy for them to carry out another EWS change assuming they have the ring antenna and shear-headed bolts in stock and then claim it back from BWM (providing the failed part is less than a year old.)

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Anyway, I do not know for sure what p/n is installed.

Joerg

If you look from the front of the bike, just below the ignition, there is a black box. The first line is the part number. It probably finishes -01. The 3 numbers before that will be 247 if it is the latest part number.

If you do a search, somewhere on this site is a picture which would make it easier to understand than my garbled description.

 

[Pukmeister]

Ring Antenna: 61 35 7 705 247

I carry one as a spare plus a roll of tape, the slim plastic wallet key and a set of security torx bits and right-angled holder to facilitate a roadside fix should I ever need to.

Tool shown here:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pro-39-8-pce-tx-tamper-proof-bit-set

Mines an '04 model bike and in 5 years of ownership I have only ever had EWS show once when the battery was low.

 

[jogo]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check for the p/n installed and report back here. Might be of interest if it actually would be the new version with p/n...247 that failed on my bike.
Tomorrow I'll call the the dealer to check if they have an antenna on stock. In that case i'll go there and pick it up and try to get the bike started applying the "roadside fix".

In that case, another question comes to my mind:
Given the temporary fix allows to start the bike, will that in a way "reset" the immobilizer so that the original antenna would work again (you may excuse my amateurish explanation)?

I would of course want to have it exchanged anyway but it would be quite nice to have some freedom for picking a convenient point in time.

Thanks again for all input!!

Joerg

 

[Pukmeister]

Joerg, you will need a very small SECURITY TORX bit to undo the protective cover over the wiring connector to the EWS ring antenna.

Fitting a new antenna as a temporary fix is unlikely to do anything to fix the bike permanently as the antenna has complex electronics inside it which communicate with the chip embedded in the ignition key.

To fit the new EWS ring antenna you will need to drill out the shear-headed bolts that hold the ignition switch in place then install the new ring antenna with shear headed bolts. You could use conventional bolts but BMW use the shear-headed ones to dissuade theft through criminals removing the ignition switch to overcome the steering lock.

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Standard Tx10 opens the screws to get at the wiring on mine.

Old number is 7671272 -08
New number is 7705247 -01

Pt. no on new box is 61 35 7 705 247 (Made in Belgium)

Just practising.

Was told the quickest way to do the bolts is to take off the top plate and drill the ferkers.

Anyone got a better idea?

Bin

 

[The smudger]

Hi,
on my 05 R12GS I had the Ringantenna changed last July under warranty after having had trouble with it.

Yesterday evening I went out for a quick ride. Stopped at a petrol station to refuel. The bike wouldn't start afterwards, EWS shining at me from the display.

This is what I tried with no result:
- Used the spare key (the plastic one)
- disconnected and reconnected the battery
- pushed the bike away from the station as far as I managed which was only 100-150m as the road goes uphill both directions. I seemed to remember people that had reported that the damned thing refused to work at a petrol station but worked again in some distance from there.

The petrol station where the bike still stands is not too far from where I live so I can easily go there to try something. However, its quit a distance to the dealer and as I may have to negotiate warranty questions I would like to avoid the expenses of having the bike transported to the shop. In addition I do not like the idea that people that love the bike much less than I do handling it on a trailer


Here my questions:

1. Is there anything else I could try to get the engine started (I do not have a spare ring antenna on hand).

2. I was under the impression that the ring antennas they put in under warranty exchange are somehow improved and did not expect any more trouble from that side. Are they as bad as the original ones so that one has to expect trouble from there once in a while?

3. Any thoughts on what I can expect from BMW warranty wise in the situation on hand?

Thanks a lot in advance and those who have, just enjoy the long weekend hopefully with a serviceable bike...

Joerg

Petrol stations eh

My mates one did EXACTLY the same thing, trip to Germany, no problems, back in UK, stop at services, EWS on, non start. He had the latest antennae fitted a couple of weeks earlier. Here's my theory....

I have been a techy for 30 yrs, worked for a very big breakdown company, attended LOADS of vcls/bikes for non-start in petrol stations/airport carparks/etc. Most of these area's have a cctv system, some of which are remotely operated by RF signal. Almost all RF subscribers transmit on 433 mhz. The transponder in your key is similar, it transmits an RF signal (probably at 433 mhz), which is picked up by the antennae, verified by the BMSK, which allows the engine to start.

If youre unlucky enough to be in a petrol stn when the camera's move, (assuming theyre operated by RF), your antennae picks this signal up, cannot verify it because it's a different signal from the key, thinks someone may be trying to steal/de-code it, (very clever these things!), and so locks out.

We did get my mates one started by pushing it away from the stn, (100 yds), swiching it off until the BUS line drops out, (about 90 secs, if youre model has a hazard switch, it's 'asleep' when the light in that goes out, if not then count!), then start it, worked that time, but sometimes the fault code needs clearing first.

 

[The smudger]

Standard Tx10 opens the screws to get at the wiring on mine.

Old number is 7671272 -08
New number is 7705247 -01

Pt. no on new box is 61 35 7 705 247 (Made in Belgium)

Just practising.

Was told the quickest way to do the bolts is to take off the top plate and drill the ferkers.

Anyone got a better idea?

Bin

Remove the screen/instrument panel/beak/harness cover/drill out in situ, looks like a lot of work but it's just bolt on bits?

 

[The smudger]

Petrol stations eh

My mates one did EXACTLY the same thing, trip to Germany, no problems, back in UK, stop at services, EWS on, non start. He had the latest antennae fitted a couple of weeks earlier. Here's my theory....

I have been a techy for 30 yrs, worked for a very big breakdown company, attended LOADS of vcls/bikes for non-start in petrol stations/airport carparks/etc. Most of these area's have a cctv system, some of which are remotely operated by RF signal. Almost all RF subscribers transmit on 433 mhz. The transponder in your key is similar, it transmits an RF signal (probably at 433 mhz), which is picked up by the antennae, verified by the BMSK, which allows the engine to start.

If youre unlucky enough to be in a petrol stn when the camera's move, (assuming theyre operated by RF), your antennae picks this signal up, cannot verify it because it's a different signal from the key, thinks someone may be trying to steal/de-code it, (very clever these things!), and so locks out.

We did get my mates one started by pushing it away from the stn, (100 yds), swiching it off until the BUS line drops out, (about 90 secs, if youre model has a hazard switch, it's 'asleep' when the light in that goes out, if not then count!), then start it, worked that time, but sometimes the fault code needs clearing first.

Or, they didn't have the new type in stock, took a chance and fitted an old one? (they didn't ALL fail?)

 

[jogo]

Called the dealer this morning. He had a ring antenna on the shelf, we checked the p/n and found it to be the one that was also recommended here: 6135 7705 247
I went there to pick it up, he just handed it to me without claiming any payment, the shop was quite crowded and we agreed that I would try to get the bike started and that we would talk on Monday to discuss how to proceed.

I can confirm that the temporary fix with the second key and second antenna works perfect (had never tried it before), however if in trouble in a remote location it might be some hassle to get plastic cover of. I did not try to break it as I did not have to, but when carrying a spare antenna, the tiny little torx key might be a nice thing to have as well.

I checked also the p/n which they fitted as late as July 2008 to the bike , it is 6135 7717 136-01 which most likely is some old crap.

What would one do without this forum??

With grateful regards

Joerg

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Decided to change the screws on mine in case of failure in middle of nowhere.
Cordless drill and a bit of fiddling lets you drill the heads off in situ.
BUT:
The screw stubs are loctited in and I was able to get one out using heat and a molegrip.
The second one in not moving and I will need to take the top plate off to drill it deeper and extract.
I fitted the lock and new antenna (why waste it) using one 8mm hax head screw as a temp. Need to get two 8mm by 25mm socket-head screws for permanent fix.
Mistake I made was using 6mm drill and then breaking heads off by hammering screwdriver into the hole. If I had drilled 8mm, the head would have broken off leaving the stub longer. There is a pilot-hole in the head of the security screw so it would have stayed centred. The reprom says 4mm drill 5mm depth, then 8mm drill 5mm depth. Sheesh.

Sheesh.
Bin