Final Drive, Final Ride?

[misterlaffer]

For a bike thats less than 3 years old, how many people think thats acceptable. I for one, certainly dont.

I've been following these posts with interest. I have a 2012 GS from new with 13K. I will be test riding other bikes in the near future starting with the Triumph. I'm very happy with my GS to date, but I find this drive shaft business unacceptable.

I could understand it if a bike was coming up to 50K+ miles but to fail just a year out of warranty is utterly disgusting.

We are playing roulette while on expensive distance trips. The famous BMW reliability is just a myth it would seem.

I won't be paying for a drive shaft - or even part of one. They can keep the bike in their garage taking up space until they do it for free. But that said, I'm getting shut before it goes and leaves me stranded by the side of the road !

 

[MattW]

I've been following these posts with interest. I have a 2012 GS from new with 13K. I will be test riding other bikes in the near future starting with the Triumph. I'm very happy with my GS to date, but I find this drive shaft business unacceptable.

I could understand it if a bike was coming up to 50K+ miles but to fail just a year out of warranty is utterly disgusting.

We are playing roulette while on expensive distance trips. The famous BMW reliability is just a myth it would seem.

I won't be paying for a drive shaft - or even part of one. They can keep the bike in their garage taking up space until they do it for free. But that said, I'm getting shut before it goes and leaves me stranded by the side of the road !

It's a machine (and a very complex one at that).
Machines break. Sometimes they just wear out, sometimes a component fails unexpectedly, sometimes they fail due to maltreatment by their user.

Do you read countless threads on here from all the thousands of people who have 1200's which have been fine and not let them down? No, of course you don't, you inevitably only hear the 'bad news' stories.

But if you want to base your opinions on this (in percentage terms) tiny number of bad luck stories and worry yourself into getting rid of a perfectly good bike then go ahead - throw money away (and if you think Triumphs are a paragon of reliability then you're even madder than you appear... ).

It's a machine - ride it and if it breaks, fix it.

 

[misterlaffer]

It's a machine (and a very complex one at that).
Machines break. Sometimes they just wear out, sometimes a component fails unexpectedly, sometimes they fail due to maltreatment by their user.

Do you read countless threads on here from all the thousands of people who have 1200's which have been fine and not let them down? No, of course you don't, you inevitably only hear the 'bad news' stories.

But if you want to base your opinions on this (in percentage terms) tiny number of bad luck stories and worry yourself into getting rid of a perfectly good bike then go ahead - throw money away (and if you think Triumphs are a paragon of reliability then you're even madder than you appear... ).

It's a machine - ride it and if it breaks, fix it.

Thanks for your very balanced comment. I guess you must work for BMW dude

I disagree with your analysis e.g. tiny number of percentage terms. Out of a small group of people I know locally that ride GS's and RT's, I would say 50% have had problems with rear drives, so I turned my thoughts to this forum to gain more of a balanced view. But it seems I only to get patronised by a moderator. Why don't you just tell me to f&ck off and be done with it you tw@t.

I work with machines and I do expect a certain level of quality - even in the thought process of those that support them !

 

[Packer]

I don't know if it's the efforts of BMW to make their bikes lighter or the impact of the bean counters cutting quality and over-engineering to the bone but the bikes do seem to have had an increasing number of generic faults with the introduction of new models.

The only real mechanical issue with 1150's was the final drive, the first 1200's added fuel pump controllers, electrical issues, notably the immobiliser, to the final drive problem, despite a complete redesign of the FD for the new model. The water cooled 1200's have added dodgy switch gear, clutch and gearbox problems, out of spec subframes etc.etc. Additionally the integration of the gearbox to the crankcases creates the possibility of a complete transmission lock due to cam chain failure. Poor design. It smacks of a cynical management taking risks because it's cheaper to fix the relatively small number of bikes that give problems that it is to make all of them better. Tough luck for the owner that gets the lemon and looses his holiday or even the trip of a lifetime due to mechanical failure.

Ford were in the same position around fifteen years ago, accountants hog-tying the engineers with overly restricted budgets. A change of top management fixed it and Ford reliability improved massively. BMW needs to do the same. If they don't the current sales bubble may prove to be short lived. Many people on this site have already stated that they won't run a BMW without maintaining the extended warranty. At first this may look like a good thing for BMW but for those folk that don't want to spend £00's on warranties each year, or can't afford to, it will take BMW off their shopping list. A restricted pool of potential buyers for used machines will tend to erode used bike prices and make the ownership costs for the new buyer that much higher. At some point some buyers will look elsewhere, for brands that have a reputation for building utterly reliable machines. I'm in that group having deserted to Yamaha.

 

[Gordon T]

I don't know if it's the efforts of BMW to make their bikes lighter or the impact of the bean counters cutting quality and over-engineering to the bone but the bikes do seem to have had an increasing number of generic faults with the introduction of new models.

The only real mechanical issue with 1150's was the final drive, the first 1200's added fuel pump controllers, electrical issues, notably the immobiliser, to the final drive problem, despite a complete redesign of the FD for the new model. The water cooled 1200's have added dodgy switch gear, clutch and gearbox problems, out of spec subframes etc.etc. Additionally the integration of the gearbox to the crankcases creates the possibility of a complete transmission lock due to cam chain failure. Poor design. It smacks of a cynical management taking risks because it's cheaper to fix the relatively small number of bikes that give problems that it is to make all of them better. Tough luck for the owner that gets the lemon and looses his holiday or even the trip of a lifetime due to mechanical failure.

Ford were in the same position around fifteen years ago, accountants hog-tying the engineers with overly restricted budgets. A change of top management fixed it and Ford reliability improved massively. BMW needs to do the same. If they don't the current sales bubble may prove to be short lived. Many people on this site have already stated that they won't run a BMW without maintaining the extended warranty. At first this may look like a good thing for BMW but for those folk that don't want to spend £00's on warranties each year, or can't afford to, it will take BMW off their shopping list. A restricted pool of potential buyers for used machines will tend to erode used bike prices and make the ownership costs for the new buyer that much higher. At some point some buyers will look elsewhere, for brands that have a reputation for building utterly reliable machines. I'm in that group having deserted to Yamaha.

Im with you on that one. I will now be looking elsewhere. Not becuase of money but reliability.

 

[misterlaffer]

Many people on this site have already stated that they won't run a BMW without maintaining the extended warranty. At first this may look like a good thing for BMW but for those folk that don't want to spend £00's on warranties each year, or can't afford to, it will take BMW off their shopping list.

Absolutely agree. Personally, I think those that go down the Extended Warranty route are complete buffoons. I've never signed up for extended warranty for any purchase, car, telly, microwave... anything, why should I for a bike that spends a lot of the year in my garage (I don't commute on it). I never will. It's a bloody con.

When that rear shaft drops out miles away from home it's still going to wreck your trip - EW or no EW. It's unacceptable to say .. ahh well, sometimes mechanical things break down .. mustn't grumble I'll just keep paying out if it does, especially if I've stuck to the service schedule and paid dealership servicing prices to boot. What the handbook should say is "Note. Somewhere between us having the cash off you, and between services the rear drive shaft MAY go faulty. If it does, please contact our service staff who will be more than happy to TAKE YOU FOR ANOTHER RIDE!"

The sheep herd mentality of some people never ceases to amaze me.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

The only real mechanical issue with 1150's was the final drive

Remind us about that one

Bearings can fail, but the repair is less than £100 in parts

 

[Packer]

Remind us about that one

Bearings can fail, but the repair is less than £100 in parts

Talking of which I ensured the reliability of my FD by buying a spare set of bearing, seal and case O-ring. Sure enough I never needed them. I should sell them now that the bike has gone to a new owner.

 

[MattW]

I guess you must work for BMW dude

Yeah, of course I do

I've just owned a few, starting with an 1100 and now with a TC.

I disagree with your analysis e.g. tiny number of percentage terms. Out of a small group of people I know locally that ride GS's and RT's, I would say 50% have had problems with rear drives, so I turned my thoughts to this forum to gain more of a balanced view. But it seems I only to get patronised by a moderator. Why don't you just tell me to f&ck off and be done with it you tw@t.

Why would I tell you to f&ck off - I don't know you and if it's warranted (although your post above is helping me from an opinion on that).

I'll say again, if you're looking for a 'balanced view' then a forum is the last place you'll find it. But what the feck - do what you want - in fact it might be best to just walk everywhere, anything 'might' happen to whatever bike you buy.

Do you even own a 1200 ?

 

[misterlaffer]

Yeah, of course I do

I've just owned a few, starting with an 1100 and now with a TC.



Why would I tell you to f&ck off - I don't know you and if it's warranted (although your post above is helping me from an opinion on that).

I'll say again, if you're looking for a 'balanced view' then a forum is the last place you'll find it. But what the feck - do what you want - in fact it might be best to just walk everywhere, anything 'might' happen to whatever bike you buy.

Do you even own a 1200 ?

Hmm, well, since your last obnoxious post I have had some enlightening information from this very forum regarding this subject matter, so I'll take your point quote: "looking for a 'balanced view' then a forum is the last place you'll find it" and disregard it as coming from one of those arrogant imbalanced self opinionated individuals we could all do without in this life. Thankfully you are not that representative of this forum - as it turns out.

Yes, I do own a 1200, and I actually ride it too, I'm a member of several clubs, been a member of other motorcycle clubs, attend various functions and have toured in several countries, a good deal of Europe and some of North America. I've owned quite a few bikes in the past, but this is my first GS and here's the rub, thankfully I fall far short of being the GIANT PENIS that you are. Now go on and moderate that FFS .

 

[cammy5477]

Hmm, well, since your last obnoxious post I have had some enlightening information from this very forum regarding this subject matter, so I'll take your point quote: "looking for a 'balanced view' then a forum is the last place you'll find it" and disregard it as coming from one of those arrogant imbalanced self opinionated individuals we could all do without in this life. Thankfully you are not that representative of this forum - as it turns out.

Yes, I do own a 1200, and I actually ride it too, I'm a member of several clubs, been a member of other motorcycle clubs, attend various functions and have toured in several countries, a good deal of Europe and some of North America. I've owned quite a few bikes in the past, but this is my first GS and here's the rub, thankfully I fall far short of being the GIANT PENIS that you are. Now go on and moderate that FFS .

I would ban you just for being a complete BELL END ��

 

[MattW]

Hmm, well, since your last obnoxious post I have had some enlightening information from this very forum regarding this subject matter, so I'll take your point quote: "looking for a 'balanced view' then a forum is the last place you'll find it" and disregard it as coming from one of those arrogant imbalanced self opinionated individuals we could all do without in this life. Thankfully you are not that representative of this forum - as it turns out.

Yes, I do own a 1200, and I actually ride it too, I'm a member of several clubs, been a member of other motorcycle clubs, attend various functions and have toured in several countries, a good deal of Europe and some of North America. I've owned quite a few bikes in the past, but this is my first GS and here's the rub, thankfully I fall far short of being the GIANT PENIS that you are. Now go on and moderate that FFS .

Go on, admit it - you're actually a teenage child aren't you?

Or Trippy (which amounts to the same thing)?

 

[misterlaffer]

Oh dear what ashame you have turned a seemingly informative thread on a very valid point regarding someone's bad experience with a final drive problem into your own pathetic mouthpiece. Who appointed you that moderator job? Was it you ? Suggesting that I am wrong to question the merits of BMW and their reliability, and then suggest that I should 'walk' instead was really clever of you, exactly the intelligent response needed wasn't it? My god you really do feel superior don't you, you seem to have issues with teenagers now too and assume you are superior to 'young' people too. Your true personality really shines through mate.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Final drives never go wrong on cars so why do they fail on BMW GS bikes?

It's not exactly a complicated assembly so are BMW using substandard bearings, joints etc?

It should be one of those things that lasts the life of the bike

Not true, they go wrong on BMW cars as well ask Z4 owners. Guy at work has had 2 in 40 thousand miles.
Outside BMW I think they are pretty reliable.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Suggesting that I am wrong to question the merits of BMW and their reliability, and then suggest that I should 'walk' instead was really clever of you, exactly the intelligent response needed wasn't it?

I think the point Matt was trying to say was that thing's do go wrong for some but by no means all. The drive is a well known issue but you can take precautionary steps by having it rebuilt by someone like Mikeyboy rather than BMW. He uses better bearings and sets it up properly unlike BMW who just chuck them together. My 112,000 mile GSA is on it's 3rd rebuild and is good to go for a long time yet. It has a harder life than most GS's so I budget for it and keep a close eye on it. I know you really shouldn't have to but I'd rather do that than wait for it to lunch itself. Cheaper than chains and sprockets I reckon.

Just to put a positive spin on it, I've taken around 60 GS's on my trips in the US and some in very tough conditions. Total combined mileage of around 400,000 miles and the only drive problems we've had are with 1150's which were fixed no problem.

Had a couple of leaky outer seals but that's been due to high temps and altitude and it sorts itself out.

As a matter

 

[misterlaffer]

I think the point Matt was trying to say was that thing's do go wrong for some but by no means all. The drive is a well known issue but you can take precautionary steps by having it rebuilt by someone like Mikeyboy rather than BMW. He uses better bearings and sets it up properly unlike BMW who just chuck them together. My 112,000 mile GSA is on it's 3rd rebuild and is good to go for a long time yet. It has a harder life than most GS's so I budget for it and keep a close eye on it. I know you really shouldn't have to but I'd rather do that than wait for it to lunch itself. Cheaper than chains and sprockets I reckon.

Just to put a positive spin on it, I've taken around 60 GS's on my trips in the US and some in very tough conditions. Total combined mileage of around 400,000 miles and the only drive problems we've had are with 1150's which were fixed no problem.

Had a couple of leaky outer seals but that's been due to high temps and altitude and it sorts itself out.

As a matter

Many thanks for this. It's good to know my concerns are valid albeit negatively weighted. It's good to hear from someone who has actually ridden the miles and owned the bikes.

I did phone my local dealer today and booked in for a RD check up, and oil change. I don't always believe what the dealer tell me for obvious reasons, so it's good to get other opinions too.

I'm off to Spain and Portugal for 3 weeks soon and all this talk of drive failures got me thinking since the bike is coming up 3 years old 13k (I've owned it from new ), anything to minimise damage and additional costs.

Thanks again.

 

[spm0912]

My understanding is that generally the FD doesn't fail without some warning, obviously you need to know those warning signs. I now change the oil every 6k miles, it's a cheap, easy, 20 min job, condition of the old oil will give you an idea of whats going on in there. Every week when I check the tyres I also feel for play in the back wheel, if there is any get it checked out. Late sign is a rumbling through the foot rests, if you feel that, again get it checked ASAP so as to avoid a catastrophic failure of the whole rear drive.

Oh, and don't aim a power washer anywhere near the FD, or rubber boots

I plan to get the FD overhauled around 40k miles as a precautionary measure, there are independents out there who now make this a viable financial proposition certainly equal to the cost of chains and sprockets over this sort of mileage without the hassle of chain maintenance.

Yes there have been a lot of documented FD failures and no, it's not acceptable but....there have been an awful lot of GS's sold, many of which do far higher mileage than most other marques, the chances of you having a duff drive are slim, don't let it spoil your ride of what is overall a bloody good bike .

 

[Bendy toy]

Final drives do fail as young as 13K miles but really that would be rare. As I said earlier mine had 50K when the main wheel bearing eventually failed. That was showing signs of increased side play for maybe 10K before it started to leak. I had plenty of warning.

I could have simply had a new bearing fitted and carried on, but seeing how the (weaker) Mk1 FD would lunch its pinion nose bearing I decided to get Mikeyboy to do a full rebuild on my Mk2. I drained the oil, took the FD off the bike, packaged it and sent it by parcel service.

Before you go to Spain, drain the oil the old fashioned way by removing the speed sensor and dropping the whole FD back on it's trunnion bearings. This recirculates the grease in these (very) not low cost needle bearings and gets all old oil out of the FD.

BMW use 180ml of oil or less. I have had 220ml in my FD with no breather leak problems. Certainly I'm sure 200ml is fine. You could also add a moly-disuphide (moly-slip) oil booster. If it does dribble then just drain the oil and refill with a bit less.

I'm going to chuck a pot of this into the gearbox and FD.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOLYSLIP-...497?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c44447d49

 

[Delboy777]

Final drives do fail as young as 13K miles but really that would be rare. As I said earlier mine had 50K when the main wheel bearing eventually failed. That was showing signs of increased side play for maybe 10K before it started to leak. I had plenty of warning.

I could have simply had a new bearing fitted and carried on, but seeing how the (weaker) Mk1 FD would lunch its pinion nose bearing I decided to get Mikeyboy to do a full rebuild on my Mk2. I drained the oil, took the FD off the bike, packaged it and sent it by parcel service.

Before you go to Spain, drain the oil the old fashioned way by removing the speed sensor and dropping the whole FD back on it's trunnion bearings. This recirculates the grease in these (very) not low cost needle bearings and gets all old oil out of the FD.

BMW use 180ml of oil or less. I have had 220ml in my FD with no breather leak problems. Certainly I'm sure 200ml is fine. You could also add a moly-disuphide (moly-slip) oil booster. If it does dribble then just drain the oil and refill with a bit less.

I'm going to chuck a pot of this into the gearbox and FD.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOLYSLIP-...497?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c44447d49

I took a look and was going to buy some of this Bendy but the bastard wanted £12.95 for fuckin post !! he can fuck right off.

 

[Blue Sweeper]

I took a look and was going to buy some of this Bendy but the bastard wanted £12.95 for fuckin post !! he can fuck right off.

Really? Which link did you click on then? I clicked on the link for MOLYSLIP 2001G and it says "FREE Click & Collect from your local Argos" or "Free Standard Delivery". What part of FREE do you not understand?