You only have to go in the Co-op in Lochboisdale or Creagorry to hear that gaelic is very much alive!
Gaelic, who ‘guards’ it?
- Thread starter Wapping
- Start date
Seemingly, Welsh is a Brythonic language, meaning British Celtic in origin and was spoken in Britain even before the Roman occupation. Thought to have arrived in Britain around 600 BC, the Celtic language evolved in the British Isles into a Brythonic tongue which provided the basis not only for Welsh, but also Breton and Cornish. At this time in Europe, Celtic languages were spoken across the continent even as far as Turkey.
This is an interesting wee video.
Scots Gaelic (usually pronounced "Gaaallic") and Irish Gaelic ( pron "Gaylic" usually) are closely related. The Scottish version originated over there and came over with Scots migrants (yes, the original Scots were an Irish tribe! - are you still with me?
) in the early and later middle ages. Welsh is very different being Brythonic rather than Goidelic. It's the language spoken by the original inhabitants of the British mainland who migrated here over the land bridge from Europe. Both are Indo European languages so there are some similarities in the etymology.I have to explain this to tourists, mostly Yanks, and it can be a challenge!
This does not directly address the original question but it offers insight of sorts - courtesy of father Jack.
This gets you closer on place names.
www.qub.ac.uk
You will have noticed you stayed in the Leenane hotel but the road signs said Leenaun - there is a tolerable elasticity in Ireland for such ambiguity.
Translations (1980)
www.qub.ac.uk
You will have noticed you stayed in the Leenane hotel but the road signs said Leenaun - there is a tolerable elasticity in Ireland for such ambiguity.
You did ask
ebrary.net
The elasticity - as previously alluded to - will be contextualised to a degree when wading through that.
Sadly, I don't speak Irish - it being perceived as unsexy when I was young - that is a bit ago. We learned of Peig - an old woman who moaned a lot as I recall.
Sometimes, these days I see TG4 - the Irish language TV channel & the female presenters are a far step from Peig. If I were young I'd be liking to make them moan, but in a different context!
Standardisation - New Speakers of Irish in the Global Context: New Revival?
The early 20th Century also saw the first moves towards the standardisation of Irish, whose written form dated from the period of Early Modern Irish laid down between about 1250 and 1650
ebrary.net
The elasticity - as previously alluded to - will be contextualised to a degree when wading through that.
Sadly, I don't speak Irish - it being perceived as unsexy when I was young - that is a bit ago. We learned of Peig - an old woman who moaned a lot as I recall.
Sometimes, these days I see TG4 - the Irish language TV channel & the female presenters are a far step from Peig. If I were young I'd be liking to make them moan, but in a different context!
Ah why did you have to bring up Peig.
My PTSD is back.
I still have memories of our little Irish teacher trying to explain it to us. He finally would read an Irish line then translate it directly so that we could understand it.
Oh did I mention, I failed Irish in my Inter.
An alternate view on Peig.
Incidentally I share your prejudices in her regard.
Incidentally I share your prejudices in her regard.
While Scots Gaelic and Irish share a common root, Welsh is of a different bloodline altogether. There are many similarities between Scots Gaelic and Irish including word order and sentence structure. That said, localised dialects have resulted in quite divergent pronunciations of words which still hold a common meaning. Welsh is just all 'L' s with the odd vowel thrown in to prevent hand cramp.
Indeed I did notice the different spelling.
Scots Gaelic (usually pronounced "Gaaallic") and Irish Gaelic ( pron "Gaylic" usually) are closely related. The Scottish version originated over there and came over with Scots migrants (yes, the original Scots were an Irish tribe! - are you still with me?
I have to explain this to tourists, mostly Yanks, and it can be a challenge!
1066 and all that, explains it very simply:
Thank you everyone for making it all clear….. I think
the Welsh for microwave is Meicrodon. the Popty Ping is just a jokeI seem to remember that the Welsh had a similar problem when trying to make a word for ambulance. The same for microwave ovens, popty ping!! Jelly fish, piscod wibbly wobbly
but the welsh language does create some fairly excruciating versions of modern words
Popty ping was written as a joke as was piscod wibbly wobbly. The welsh word for ambulance however is pretty strange.the Welsh for microwave is Meicrodon. the Popty Ping is just a joke
Tha beagan biorach ghaidhlig Albanach agam.
Or if you speak gaelic. Scotts or Irish.
Tha mi duilich, chan eil gaidhlig agam
If I saw written Gaelic 10 years ago it would have been a complete mystery to me. I am english speaking and educated. I'm not a gaelic speaker, I'm from Glasgow, With Gaelic speaking friends relatives. A bit like a sheep dog, I understand a lot more than I can speak.
Most of what I understand being the same instructions the dog got.
It's strange seeing gaelic written. Apart from the completely different grammar and spelling. A native speaker says thing so quickly. I often didn't know there were actually more words in a phrase I was familiar with.
As to the OP's question. I don't know. Some expert somewhere? BBC?
Are Scottish and Irish different languages? I'm no expert.
As far as I can tell. Old Irish celtic writing is quite similar to a Gaelic bible. Columba did come from Ireland.
I have heard. Scottish Gaelic has a lot more Norse. Shows up in place, and some peoples names. Along with some common words.
Irish has been modernised. Gaelic not so much.
Officially according to experts. Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic or Irish are now separate languages.
What would I know?
Can Scottish and Irish speakers understand each other? Yes mostly. With some difficulty. It's a bit like a Glaswegian trying to understand Cockney. Only a bit more different.
Written Irish is a bit of a mystery to me until I hear it spoken. Some of it is familiar. Some completely different.
Even within gaelic speaking parts of Scotland. Gaelic varies. I have Gaelic speaking relatives from different Islands and parts of the mainland. They all have different accents.
Sometimes using different words.
Some I can recognise. Others not so much.
If you are a fluent gaelic speaker, It's not difficult. Even though some words used here, are different there. Most will be able to tell where you are from by your Gaelic accent. And the words you use.
Modern words are funny. People I know or knew would just say the english word with a Lewis or Harris accent.
Until an expert comes along and spells it with a an accent and changes the V's to BH ect. I think they get most of them from a Lewis accent.
Some interesting gaelic words.
Car. or Char Bus or Bhus. The h softens the c or b
Telebhison. BH is a V sound. I kind of wonder why they bother.
Some are a complete mystery. Two Gaelic words, joined together. I had often only heard the one used. Or the English word.
Buggered if I know how they came up with eadar lion for internet. or. What the Irish is?
Irish is more difficult. For me. Back in the 50's a bunch of experts got together and decided to simplify written Irish. More phonetic less combined letters to make gaelic sounds.
From the little I know. Donegall is more familiar. getting less familiar as you go south. Official Irish is even less familiar.
When I was in Galway earlier this year. I could hear Irish being spoken. I wouldn't say I understood it. I recognised some of the phrases. Particularly when mum was getting annoyed and telling her kids off.
There was a movie recently. Kneecap. I think the lads involved are quite controversial. They are from the North, Republican ect. I could pick up quite a bit of what they were saying even more if I rewound it and listened again. I'm not even a Gaelic speaker.
Living in Canada, I have met and know a few people from Cape Bretton. Their gaelic accent is quite strange to me and they have some Canadian words I doubt I would ever hear in Scotland. Or Ireland. So I have to listen very carefully to them.
Some of my Gaelic speaking relatives visit Cape Bretton and have no bother.
My mum used to go regularly in latter years to a Pan Celtic music festival in Ireland. She had a few drinks and a great time understanding each other well enough if not fully.
Having left Scotland decades ago. On a recent visit, seeing written gaelic place names in traditional gaelic speaking areas. Was new. Not out of place, Kind of nice because I could figure out the origin of the name.
It was strange seeing Gaelic signs in Ayrshire, right next to where Burns and Scotts come from. To my mind it just didn't make sense to put gaelic signage in an area which is renowned for speaking Scotts. Even if historically they might have spoken gaelic in Ayrshire a 1000 years ago.
It must be because they are worried Irish visitors will get lost after they get off the ferry.
Glasahu (I cant spell it) for Glasgow? OK, Most old Gaelic speakers I know just said Glasgow. Cumbernauld? WTF.
Or if you speak gaelic. Scotts or Irish.
Tha mi duilich, chan eil gaidhlig agam
If I saw written Gaelic 10 years ago it would have been a complete mystery to me. I am english speaking and educated. I'm not a gaelic speaker, I'm from Glasgow, With Gaelic speaking friends relatives. A bit like a sheep dog, I understand a lot more than I can speak.
Most of what I understand being the same instructions the dog got.
It's strange seeing gaelic written. Apart from the completely different grammar and spelling. A native speaker says thing so quickly. I often didn't know there were actually more words in a phrase I was familiar with.
As to the OP's question. I don't know. Some expert somewhere? BBC?
Are Scottish and Irish different languages? I'm no expert.
As far as I can tell. Old Irish celtic writing is quite similar to a Gaelic bible. Columba did come from Ireland.
I have heard. Scottish Gaelic has a lot more Norse. Shows up in place, and some peoples names. Along with some common words.
Irish has been modernised. Gaelic not so much.
Officially according to experts. Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic or Irish are now separate languages.
What would I know?
Can Scottish and Irish speakers understand each other? Yes mostly. With some difficulty. It's a bit like a Glaswegian trying to understand Cockney. Only a bit more different.
Written Irish is a bit of a mystery to me until I hear it spoken. Some of it is familiar. Some completely different.
Even within gaelic speaking parts of Scotland. Gaelic varies. I have Gaelic speaking relatives from different Islands and parts of the mainland. They all have different accents.
Sometimes using different words.
Some I can recognise. Others not so much.
If you are a fluent gaelic speaker, It's not difficult. Even though some words used here, are different there. Most will be able to tell where you are from by your Gaelic accent. And the words you use.
Modern words are funny. People I know or knew would just say the english word with a Lewis or Harris accent.
Until an expert comes along and spells it with a an accent and changes the V's to BH ect. I think they get most of them from a Lewis accent.
Some interesting gaelic words.
Car. or Char Bus or Bhus. The h softens the c or b
Telebhison. BH is a V sound. I kind of wonder why they bother.
Some are a complete mystery. Two Gaelic words, joined together. I had often only heard the one used. Or the English word.
Buggered if I know how they came up with eadar lion for internet. or. What the Irish is?
Irish is more difficult. For me. Back in the 50's a bunch of experts got together and decided to simplify written Irish. More phonetic less combined letters to make gaelic sounds.
From the little I know. Donegall is more familiar. getting less familiar as you go south. Official Irish is even less familiar.
When I was in Galway earlier this year. I could hear Irish being spoken. I wouldn't say I understood it. I recognised some of the phrases. Particularly when mum was getting annoyed and telling her kids off.
There was a movie recently. Kneecap. I think the lads involved are quite controversial. They are from the North, Republican ect. I could pick up quite a bit of what they were saying even more if I rewound it and listened again. I'm not even a Gaelic speaker.
Living in Canada, I have met and know a few people from Cape Bretton. Their gaelic accent is quite strange to me and they have some Canadian words I doubt I would ever hear in Scotland. Or Ireland. So I have to listen very carefully to them.
Some of my Gaelic speaking relatives visit Cape Bretton and have no bother.
My mum used to go regularly in latter years to a Pan Celtic music festival in Ireland. She had a few drinks and a great time understanding each other well enough if not fully.
Having left Scotland decades ago. On a recent visit, seeing written gaelic place names in traditional gaelic speaking areas. Was new. Not out of place, Kind of nice because I could figure out the origin of the name.
It was strange seeing Gaelic signs in Ayrshire, right next to where Burns and Scotts come from. To my mind it just didn't make sense to put gaelic signage in an area which is renowned for speaking Scotts. Even if historically they might have spoken gaelic in Ayrshire a 1000 years ago.
It must be because they are worried Irish visitors will get lost after they get off the ferry.
Glasahu (I cant spell it) for Glasgow? OK, Most old Gaelic speakers I know just said Glasgow. Cumbernauld? WTF.
My niece and nephew (in law, so to speak) are 12 and 8 respectively and both attend Irish Gaelic schools in Dublin - so the Irish language is safe and taught with vigorous enthusiasm
I seem to remember that primary children don’t start until 6 years old
I seem to remember that primary children don’t start until 6 years old
