Gear change issue

[sproggy]

I have a worsening issue with changing gear from 1st to 2nd - it requires an excessively positive movement of the lever (to the point where it gets painful for my foot riding in London stop-start traffic, which I do regularly) and around 25% of the time only makes it as far as neutral. There's no problem then selecting 2nd from neutral. As of this week the change from 2nd to 1st is now also becoming 'sticky' (that's the best description I can give) as if I'm changing down through a slight obstruction. Selecting 1st at a standstill is slick and normal (so not a clutch issue), clutch action is normal at all times and changing between other gears is also normal.

Changing from 1st to 2nd is slightly easier (less force required) at higher revs than at low revs but results in neutral rather than 2nd more often than it does at lower revs. The problem seems to be worse when the bike is hot than when it's cold.

Gearbox has Castrol EPX 80W-90 oil (Motorworks' recommendation) changed 3k miles ago, level checked last week and spot on. I've removed the gear linkage, cleaned and re-lubed the joints and checked lever free movement without the linkage attached. 2003 bike with 39k miles. The problem has become apparent, and progressively worse, over the past few hundred miles.

Any suggestions for what might be causing this? I was thinking to drain the oil and see what falls out with it but anything else I could try at the same time? Different oil? I think I remember seeing a recommendation for a Halfords gearbox oil which I'd normally steer well clear of. I'm hoping I won't be looking at a gearbox rebuild

 

[KMD]

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs Sproggy, but is the linkage between the pedal and the gearbox all moving freely?

 

[sproggy]

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs Sproggy, but is the linkage between the pedal and the gearbox all moving freely?

Yes - pulled apart, cleaned, re-greased, all happy. Changes slickly (for an oilhead) through all other gears.

 

[Adamski1100]

Yes - pulled apart, cleaned, re-greased, all happy. Changes slickly (for an oilhead) through all other gears.

Have you managed to get to the bottom of your gear change issues?

I have a similar thing with my 1999 1100 with 28k miles, 1st to 2nd is clunky, 2nd to 3rd is worse, although up to 4th and 5th is slick, it does seem to get worse with more temp in the bike. I will take apart, and clean the linkage this weekend, although I assume if it was the linkage the same issue would affect 4th and 5th?

 

[Paul Young]

…I assume if it was the linkage the same issue would affect 4th and 5th?

Not necessarily. Since different cogs/dogs are being moved, it may mean differences in leverage needed. An awful lot of gear changing issues get sorted by cleaning up the lever pivot bush and linkages.

Watch out for the little collar pins on the linkage unions though. Not known as pingfuckits in my garage without reason…

 

[Adamski1100]

Not necessarily. Since different cogs/dogs are being moved, it may mean differences in leverage needed. An awful lot of gear changing issues get sorted by cleaning up the lever pivot bush and linkages.

Watch out for the little collar pins on the linkage unions though. Not known as pingfuckits in my garage without reason…

Thanks for that, I will give it a try along with a clutch cable lube / adjust to start with. The bike had sat for 14 years before it was put back on the road this year, and then I took it on, its done roughly 1k miles since then but its needing the odd tweak here or there!

 

[sproggy]

Bit embarrassing really - I came to the conclusion that the ‘problem’ was largely due to a change from summer to winter boots which necessitated quite major adjustment of the gear linkage. Probably it wasn’t adjusted that well to start with. It’s not perfect now but because of the longer ‘throw’ between 1st and 2nd compared with other gears I think that’s where adjustment is most critical. Change quality is still somewhat dependent on temperature but the weather's colder now so less of a contributing factor.

 

[Wrigsby1]

Bit embarrassing really - I came to the conclusion that the ‘problem’ was largely due to a change from summer to winter boots which necessitated quite major adjustment of the gear linkage. Probably it wasn’t adjusted that well to start with. It’s not perfect now but because of the longer ‘throw’ between 1st and 2nd compared with other gears I think that’s where adjustment is most critical. Change quality is still somewhat dependent on temperature but the weather's colder now so less of a contributing factor.

Obviously on these pre quick shifter machines with all their auto blipping shite we use a blip on downshifts to smooth the change... After a year or two of Oilheads GSing many years ago, I had perfected the up blip two stroke stylee to make 1st to second a cleaner change ... It stuck and is still used to this day on the biking equivalent of a Massey F tractor gearbox...
I've never felt the need on a GS for the old revvy sportsbike trick of the double down change while braking like a twat... Happy days...

 

[Adamski1100]

Bit embarrassing really - I came to the conclusion that the ‘problem’ was largely due to a change from summer to winter boots which necessitated quite major adjustment of the gear linkage. Probably it wasn’t adjusted that well to start with. It’s not perfect now but because of the longer ‘throw’ between 1st and 2nd compared with other gears I think that’s where adjustment is most critical. Change quality is still somewhat dependent on temperature but the weather's colder now so less of a contributing factor.

Ah yes, when I picked up my bike I really struggled with the gearchange, but it had been adjusted to the point that you needed seriously flexible ankles to change gear.

I striped, cleaned and greased the linkage on my bike over the weekend, but its still hit an miss on first to second, and second to third shifts, sometimes it fine, then other shifts a bit unhappy. I did notice a bit of wobble/movement where the gear lever attaches to behind the footpeg mount.

 

[Wrigsby1]

One of the biggest assets to my oilheads clean gear changing was bigger boots like Savannah/Santiago's... Heavier change/ heavier boots...

 

[Steptoe]

If cleaning the linkage the main ‘bit’ that seizes is the bush in the gear lever, the bush that’s held by the securing bolt and the lever pivots on - the bush has to be pushed out, people think it’s all part of the gearlever

 

[Steptoe]

Here’s a copy and paste from 2020 ..


It's no good just removing the gearliever and lubing the bolt etc...The bush needs to be pushed out of the gear lever, it's the bush the gearlever bolt secures down onto and the lever pivots freely on the bush.

Use wet and dry or emery paper on the outside of the bush and the inner gearlever where the bush pushes into, get it nice and loose before then using a decent grease when refitting.

 

[Adamski1100]

Here’s a copy and paste from 2020 ..


It's no good just removing the gearliever and lubing the bolt etc...The bush needs to be pushed out of the gear lever, it's the bush the gearlever bolt secures down onto and the lever pivots freely on the bush.

Use wet and dry or emery paper on the outside of the bush and the inner gearlever where the bush pushes into, get it nice and loose before then using a decent grease when refitting.

I removed the footpeg / gearlever mount from the bike at the weekend, but was unable to remove the gearlever securing bolt, and the hex head has been rounded off. The bolt is not a reverse thread is it? Need to get some easy outs on it to try and remove!

 

[NeilDD]

I removed the footpeg / gearlever mount from the bike at the weekend, but was unable to remove the gearlever securing bolt, and the hex head has been rounded off. The bolt is not a reverse thread is it? Need to get some easy outs on it to try and remove!

It's a conventional thread, but with Loctite, so heat will be your friend

 

[Adamski1100]

It's a conventional thread, but with Loctite, so heat will be your friend

So, three broken easy outs, and much drilling later, the bolt is finally out! Unfortunately damaging the sleeve in the process Judging by the mess and sheer amount of blue Loctite in there, its no wonder the bolt was reluctant to come out!

 

[NeilDD]

Like is probably not the correct response, but at least you got the screw out.

 

[davegs]

I removed the footpeg / gearlever mount from the bike at the weekend, but was unable to remove the gearlever securing bolt, and the hex head has been rounded off. The bolt is not a reverse thread is it? Need to get some easy outs on it to try and remove!

This is fitted with lock tote, hear up with an hot air gun and all will be well.
I know ‘cos I found out the hard way!.

 

[Adamski1100]

And so my gearchange woes continue, I have changed the gearbox oil, and fitted new gear lever bushes which reduced the movement of the lever, however, I still have this curious issue where 1st - 2nd and 2nd - 3rd is fine when the bike is cold, but becomes more difficult as the bike heats up, can anyone suggest what to look for next, could it be bearing / input shaft spline related?

 

[Steptoe]

And so my gearchange woes continue, I have changed the gearbox oil, and fitted new gear lever bushes which reduced the movement of the lever, however, I still have this curious issue where 1st - 2nd and 2nd - 3rd is fine when the bike is cold, but becomes more difficult as the bike heats up, can anyone suggest what to look for next, could it be bearing / input shaft spline related?

Could be gear selector/fork problem inside the gearbox