H.I.D lamps

[dlevett]

Les,

No problems with Canbus with 50W HID's ftted (one in the dip, and one in the main). I would (guess) that there is much less likleyhood of Canbus issues with 50W HID's than their is with 35W HID's (since they closely match the wattage of the standard H7's - one reason to go for 50W HID's (?) since some have found 'bulb failure' Canbus issues with 35W HID's.

I've not really tried the main in anger (flash), so can't speak about how the delay 'feels' - but this is no different between and HID - they all have a delay before they acheive full brightness.

(I'm looking forward to news on the 'under beak' bracket!

I won't get into the debate of Standard bulbs over 35W HID's, over 50W HID's over HID's + auxiliary lighting, since there will be more oppinions than contributors to the forum. Surfice to say I ride in a lot of traffic, and South African drivers are 'interesting' at times, and I would much prefer to be seen, than not.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[dirtydog]

I feel obliged to ask at this stage is there a genuine need to fit 4 HID's on a motorbike and what benefit is gained with throwing this much light forwards? I run a 35w dip HID on my 1150 Adv and find that quite adequate for my night time riding through the country lanes to and from work and I strongly feel that excessive lighting is a liability and a danger to other road users,

So are such levels of lighting being fitted out of necessity? If so I would strongly urge the rider to either slow down or get your eyes tested. Or is this yet another bling item?

I can't really disagree with you here. I run 35w HID units in dipped, main beam and fogs and I find this is as much light as I need. Although I would be intrigued to see just how much extra lumen's these 50w burner throw out.

Setting up the dipped on the 1200 is a bit of a problem, as you really do need to set the reflector at it's lowest point due to the amount of light scatter generated. This isn't a problem with the projector lamp of the 1150.

Your riding style also has to be changed too. 1) avoid harsh acceleration at night, it really isn't funny having these extremely bright lamps burning out your retina's on-coming. 2) the riding distance from the vehicle in front really needs to be increased!

So, with all this to be taken into consideration, do you really need 50w burners? Not really, but set up correctly and used responsibly I can't really see any problem why not!

 

[Cole]

I feel obliged to ask at this stage is there a genuine need to fit 4 HID's on a motorbike and what benefit is gained with throwing this much light forwards?

Well its a question you perhaps should ask car designers. New performace cars like Aston Martins have 4 HIDs up front. If you think 4 HIDs at the front of a vehice is excessive, I think you will be disappointed with the future. Prepare to see a hell of a lot more vehicles coming from the factory with 4 HIDs up front, as car manufacturers are able to source the lights for ever cheaper prices.

I would think the answer to the benefit is pretty obvious ... in a time when motorcycle safety is all about two things .. seeing and being seen... this question answers itself really.

Is there "a genuine need" for you to have fitted a HID to your low beam? No of course not. You fitted it becase you wanted to have more light and to be more visible right? Not because you had "a genuine need" for it. After all, you could have stuck with the halogen, had your eyes tested, and ridden more slowly.

I run a 35w dip HID on my 1150 Adv and find that quite adequate for my night time riding through the country lanes to and from work and I strongly feel that excessive lighting is a liability and a danger to other road users

Do you not have excessive lighting? You yourself have almost 3 times factory spec lighting - Is that not "excessive"? What exactly is "excessive"?

As for 4 HIDs, if the same amount of lighting is coming out of prestige vehicles straight from the factory, then regulators obviously dont see that as excessive. You seem to be defining excessive as being any more than you have, as if you alone have found the perfect balance of not too much and not to little lighting - and that your definition should apply to all people.

I would have thought "enough" lighting is something each individual rider has to define for himself, in the same way as the amount of power he wants to get out of his engine. Heaven knows there are enough campaingers out there who think motorcycles like a 1200 GS that can do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds has "excessive" power. Its hard to argue against that ... but all you can do is tell those people that if you dont like that much power, dont buy a 1200 cc bike. Some guys on this site spend a lot of money to get a yet more powerful bike, with safety consequenses for other road users too. I dont. But nor do I tell them what is an appropriate amount of power.

So are such levels of lighting being fitted out of necessity? If so I would strongly urge the rider to either slow down or get your eyes tested. Or is this yet another bling item?

This is the same argument that people made in the early 60s when halogen lighting was introduced, and was heard again in the 90s when HIDs begain to appear on BMW cars. Sure we could have less light and ride more slowly. Maybe all vehicles should go back to Halogen, we should ban foglights and if glare is an issue then the government should make projector dipped beams compulsory, but its not going to happen. People want more light so that they can ride at normal speeds on dark roads, without having to ride more slowly.

Vehicle lighting gets constantly more powerful. Rather than stop at 35 watt HIDs and the 3200 lumens they put out, the latest generation of production 35 watt HIDs, the D4S units in Lexuses, now put out 3800 lumens per bulb. Thats around 25% more light that the previous D2S units. Clearly the regulators dont think that 2 x 3800 lumen HID dipped beams and 2 x 1400 lumen foglights on the front of a Lexus is "excessive" , otherwise it would not get ECE approval.

 

[Flipfly]

Very well put Mr Colebatch. Personally wouldn't have had the patience to write all that.
The more light you have at night the better, simple as. Just because you produce alot of light, it doesn't mean that it will blind everyone else. Well postitioned lights can be exceptionaly bright and not affect oncoming traffic.
Slow down at night??? Why if you can improve your vision by improving your lights set up.
If ya don't like em tough!!. Those who have got the right set up know the right (light) way forward

 

[cookie]

Well its a question you perhaps should ask car designers. New performace cars like Aston Martins have 4 HIDs up front. If you think 4 HIDs at the front of a vehice is excessive, I think you will be disappointed with the future. Prepare to see a hell of a lot more vehicles coming from the factory with 4 HIDs up front, as car manufacturers are able to source the lights for ever cheaper prices.

I would think the answer to the benefit is pretty obvious ... in a time when motorcycle safety is all about two things .. seeing and being seen... this question answers itself really.

Is there "a genuine need" for you to have fitted a HID to your low beam? No of course not. You fitted it becase you wanted to have more light and to be more visible right? Not because you had "a genuine need" for it.



Do you not have excessive lighting? You yourself have almost 3 times factory spec lighting - Is that not "excessive"? What exactly is "excessive"?

As for 4 HIDs, if the same amount of lighting is coming out of prestige vehicles straight from the factory, then regulators obviously dont see that as excessive. You seem to be defining excessive as being any more than you have, as if you alone have found the perfect balance of not too much and not to little lighting - and that your definition should apply to all people.

I would have thought "enough" lighting is something each individual rider has to define for himself, in the same way as the amount of power he wants to get out of his engine. Heaven knows there are enough campaingers out there who think motorcycles like a 1200 GS that can do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds has "excessive" power. Its hard to argue against that ... but all you can do is tell those people that if you dont like that much power, dont buy a 1200 cc bike. Some guys on this site spend a lot of money to get a more powerful bike, with consequenses for other road users too. I dont. But nor do I tell them what is an appropriate amount of power.



This is the same argument that people made in the early 60s when halogen lighting was introduced, and was heard again in the 90s when HIDs begain to appear on BMW cars. Sure we could have less light and ride more slowly. Maybe all vehicles should go back to Halogen, we should ban foglights and if glare is an issue then the government should make projector dipped beams compulsory, but its not going to happen. People want more light so that they can ride at normal speeds on dark roads, without having to ride more slowly.

Vehicle lighting gets constantly more powerful. Rather than stop at 35 watt HIDs and the 3200 lumens they put out, the latest generation of production 35 watt HIDs, the D4S units in Lexuses, now put out 3800 lumens per bulb. Thats around 25% more light that the previous D2S units. Clearly the regulators dont think that 2 x 3800 lumen HID dipped beams and 2 x 1400 lumen foglights on the front of a Lexus is "excessive" , otherwise it would not get ECE approval.

all these arguments refer to cars fitted with HID units, and completely ignore the fact that legally, they have to have self levelling suspension to be so equipped. also, a car has it's lights mounted somewhat lower.

i dare say the car manufacturers don't just bung a burner into a reflector designed for a halogen either.

i do quite fancy an HID in the dip of my GSA, but TBH the lamp as fitted, tends to piss car drivers off as it is when coming up behind them. add this to the stories of people being prosecuted abroad for having them on bikes and i'm not so sure.

 

[Flipfly]

all these arguments refer to cars fitted with HID units, and completely ignore the fact that legally, they have to have self levelling suspension to be so equipped. also, a car has it's lights mounted somewhat lower.

i dare say the car manufacturers don't just bung a burner into a reflector designed for a halogen either.

i do quite fancy an HID in the dip of my GSA, but TBH the lamp as fitted, tends to piss car drivers off as it is when coming up behind them. add this to the stories of people being prosecuted abroad for having them on bikes and i'm not so sure.

Try setting your lights up properly. I never have an issue with my HIDs. Can't see why you wouldn't want to see more at night I'd risk a fine before I risked my life. I've followed coppers and they've never bothered me. I did go for the whiter 4600k rather than the obviously blue 6000k which might help. Stop worrying and get it done, just set ya lights right.

 

[cookie]

Try setting your lights up properly. I never have an issue with my HIDs. Can't see why you wouldn't want to see more at night I'd risk a fine before I risked my life. I've followed coppers and they've never bothered me. I did go for the whiter 4600k rather than the obviously blue 6000k which might help. Stop worrying and get it done, just set ya lights right.

my lights are set up to get the best out of a rather poor dip. unfortunately this is not best for everybody else.

i never said i didn't want to see more at night. i actually said i "quite fancied" going HID.

 

[Cole]

all these arguments refer to cars fitted with HID units

No sir, not at all ...

"I would think the answer to the benefit is pretty obvious ... in a time when motorcycle safety is all about two things .. seeing and being seen... this question answers itself really." has nothing to do with cars

"Is there "a genuine need" for you to have fitted a HID to your low beam? No of course not. You fitted it becase you wanted to have more light and to be more visible right? Not because you had "a genuine need" for it." has nothing to do with cars.

"Do you not have excessive lighting? You yourself have almost 3 times factory spec lighting - Is that not "excessive"? What exactly is "excessive"?" has nothing to do with cars

"I would have thought "enough" lighting is something each individual rider has to define for himself, .... But nor do I tell them what is an appropriate amount of power." has nothing to do with cars

"we should ban foglights and if glare is an issue then the government should make projector dipped beams compulsory, but its not going to happen. People want more light so that they can ride at normal speeds on dark roads, without having to ride more slowly.
" has nothing to do with cars

etc ...

and completely ignore the fact that legally, they have to have self levelling suspension to be so equipped.

Well car conversions and self levelling lighting is not black and white mate. Naturally enough, most of car HID conversion kit companies claim its just fine. While I dont believe a word they say, the reality is its not clear whether retrofitting is legal or not, as it has not been challenged in a court. Many of them point out that ECE regulations refer to the design and manufacture of motor vehicles, not to retrofitting.

Similarly, if you have a 1940 vintage motorcycle and you update some of its compnents with not factory components, is the bike still road legal? If you stick a retrofit halogen light in place of an old tungsten filament fixed beam in a 1950s BSA you are restoring, is it road legal? If Jay Leno sticks any sort of light on one of his old 1890s steam cars, does that make the vehicle non-road legal?

I am not for a minute claiming it is legal, all I am saying it is not black and white - its not "fact".

a car has it's lights mounted somewhat lower.

Not at all.

A car can have its lights mounted anywhere between 500 and 1200 mm above the ground.

A motorcycle can have its headlight/s mounted anywhere from 500 to 1200 mm above the ground.

There is no difference.

I would also add that the higher you have your headlight mounted, the sharper the down angle on the light cutoff, therefore the LESS likely it is to cause glare. Lower lights on the other hand, need to be aimed far closer to horizontal to get the same distance of cutoff from the bike, and are therefore far more suceptible to causing glare.

 

[cookie]

No sir, not at all ...

in every answer of your previous post, you refer to cars

Similarly, if you have a 1940 vintage motorcycle and you update some of its compnents with not factory components, is the bike still road legal? If you stick a retrofit halogen light in place of an old tungsten filament fixed beam in a 1950s BSA you are restoring, is it road legal? If Jay Leno sticks any sort of light on one of his old 1890s steam cars, does that make the vehicle non-road legal?

there is no law i've ever heard of prohibiting retrofitting of halogen units to older vehicles. as you said in your last post about retro fitting HIDs: "the reality is its not clear whether retrofitting is legal or not".

i guess most, if not all, of jay leno's vehicles are in the usa.

I am not for a minute claiming it is legal, all I am saying it is not black and white - its not hard "fact".

wait until some MP gets a bit dazzled by one & i think you'll see that happen.

A car can have its lights mounted anywhere between 500 and 1200 mm above the ground.

A motorcycle can have its headlight/s mounted anywhere from 500 to 1200 mm above the ground.

my car headlight is 660mm above the ground.

my bike headlight is 1020 above the ground.

There is no difference.

there is a massive difference.

 

[Cole]

my car headlight is 660mm above the ground.

my bike headlight is 1020 above the ground.

There is no difference.

there is a massive difference.

Thats great Cookie ... My neighbour has a 4WD and a 600cc sports bike... guess what, his headlight on his car is a foot higher than the headlight on his bike

So your example makes no point whatsoever

 

[cookie]

Thats great Cookie ... My neighbour has a 4WD and a 600cc sports bike... guess what, his headlight on his car is a foot higher than the headlight on his bike

So your example make no point whatsoever

funny you should say that

 

[Cole]

OK I give up

you win.

Bikes with HIDs could well be the spawn of the devil.

And far be it for bikers to be irresponsible and dare question the limits of the law I say!

I must make more of an effort to conform....

 

[cookie]

Bikes with HIDs could well be the spawn of the devil.

i never said that either.

what i was really doing was pointing out the spurious nature of your arguments, a trend you are continuing.

am i right in thinking you sell these lamps?

 

[Cole]

i never said that either.

And I never quoted you as saying that

what i was really doing was pointing out the spurious nature of your arguments

You are kidding me, right? Saying "massive difference" or "jay leno's vehicles are in the usa" is countering what exactly?? You havent actually pointed out anything at all. What points have you made that have actually been accurate? All I know from your input so far is that you can measure the height of your car headlight.

am i right in thinking you sell these lamps?

guilty as charged ... for offroad use of course.
How many do you want?
I'm sorry .... Just kidding ...

lecture away


(this is all very appropriate coming from a guy who admits to being a "sourpuss" who ironically lives in a "Nanny State" ... can you see the irony in yourself? I know I can ;-))

 

[cookie]

ok, one more, but i'm losing interest now.

And I never quoted you as saying that

it looks like you did here:

you win.



Bikes with HIDs could well be the spawn of the devil.


possibly ambiguous looking at it now, i'll grant you, but not how i read it.


You are kidding me, right? Saying "massive difference" or "jay leno's vehicles are in the usa" is countering what exactly?? You havent actually pointed out anything at all. What points have you made that have actually been accurate? All I know from your input so far is that you can measure the height of your car headlight.

re: massive difference. when i pull up behind a car on my GSA, the headlight shines in the back of the car pissing off the occupants. when following a car, this can be even worse as the softish suspension of a GS allows for a lot of vertical movement of the beam. this does not happen on my car. this is due to the differing height of the headlights between my car (not a 4WD) and my car (not a sportsbike).

i could lower the beam back to how it came from the dealer, but then i'd just be lighting the front mud guard again. if i then fit an HID, won't i just have a very well lit mudguard? raise it up, even more pissed off car drivers.

i don't see it as a war.

re: jay leno. using a bike that is registered in america to make a point about english or EU law is nonsensical.

guilty as charged ... for offroad use of course.


no vested interest then?


How many do you want?

i'm still thinking about it

lecture away

it was never meant to be a lecture, but i concede it does look a bit that way.


this is all very appropriate coming from a guy who admits to being a "sourpuss" who ironically lives in a "Nanny State"

it wouldn't be the first thing i've done that's against the law (oooh the rebel ) but i think it's worth bearing in mind the way the "nanny state" treats us. can't be long before they start enforcing something so easy to police

 

[dlevett]

Gents,

Handbags at 30 paces!

I'm sure this is an argument that we will never settle.

I personally have 50W HID's fitted, and a have a loud exhaust, and I (will) have a K&N filter and Power Controller - All of which are (in certain countries illegal). I also have a small number plate (because the full-size one melted with the Remus exhaust). I have also modded landrovers, Jeeps, and other vehicles, fitted LED lamps to my caravan, etc - do I have a total disregard for the law?

I would say I'm fairly law abiding (you'd never think so from the above) and would not do anything that made a vehicle either dangerous to myself or others -others would disagree that the Mods I have made cross that line.

As with all the mods we make (or don't), bling or not, it comes down to personal preference and we should accept that.

 

[dirtydog]

As I said in one of my previous posts, you have to modify slightly the way you normally ride at night: Avoid harsh acceleration, increase the distance between the vehicle in front

Fine adjustment on the positioning of the lights is the key. Rarely do I get flashed by on-coming vehicles unless I'm 'pinning' it back! Although I do sometimes see drivers adjusting the position of their rear view mirror...:eyesdown

The pro's of utilising an HID unit certainly far exceed the con's. Although in the not so distant future when HID units become more popular on bikes, I can envisage problems where the law is concerned. I can certainly see bikes without projector headlamps failing MOT's with HID burners installed.

Still, I have to say that it is without a doubt, the best 'bling sting' you can do to a GS...

 

[dirtydog]

I have an 07 GSA and being a complete numpty with all things electrical/mechanical/female I've read through the last 7 pages of threads with excitment and dread.

I could really do with updating my lights (they really are crap) but have no idea how to go about it.

Do any of techy people offer a service where I can turn up on my bike, pay some cash and ride away with it all done and dusted? Upgrading the exisiting lights would be a first step or, if necessary buying into an additional set (to compete or repalce the BMW fog lights).

I did email BTBR but he's only just completed his first GS and the Adventure is some way off.

I live near Oxford but can travel. Cash and adulation is waiting.

Any help much appreciated.

Mark.

Andy

tried to ring you but your number doesn't work...

Call me

Stu

 

[dirtydog]

Just thought I'd mention it!

If you have fitted HID's and your CANBUS is telling you a lamp is out. Then you may want to consider fitting a resistor in parallel in the headlamp circuit.

After many calculations... you will need a 7.5 ohm resistor rated at 25-30w

 

[ROLLINSDAN]

Just thought I'd mention it!

If you have fitted HID's and your CANBUS is telling you a lamp is out. Then you may want to consider fitting a resistor in parallel in the headlamp circuit.

After many calculations... you will need a 7.5 ohm resistor rated at 25-30w

Good skills Stuart, how many lectures did it take for you to get it right

Now being a 1200 owner I should take note........