Help!!! I've just drowned my 12GSA

[LiquidLAN]

I'm gutted, I drowned it in less than a foot and a half of water at a ford in Shilton near Burford.

I've found the following http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7227&highlight=flooded+engine but I could find anything other than Mike O's and slimbo's entry as far as what to do next.

ok, so I was going slowly through, I got over 3/4 of the way across and I haven't run the engine, though I did try and fire it in the water (no response) and I did try and fire it once I got it out, I think I got half a turn.

I've removed the plugs and I know there was water in the engine as it fired a load out and I've now got it to a point that I think its dry.

This bike is under 6 months old and still under warranty so do I mess about any further or do I just hand it over to NOG and pay the bill? I think I know the answer... I've blown a Pug engine up by not doing it right and I know how much damage that can cause.

I'm really gutted, I've riden through that ford a few times, in the Land Cruiser and on the bike, in fact I had to drive the LC through tonight to get the right tools to get the plugs out... just how much water can you expect a 12GSA to go through... less than 1'6" just doesnt seem that deep to me

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Oh shit this sounds like it could be expensive

Do BMW give a wading depth for a GSA ???

 

[LiquidLAN]

Not that we've been able to find, not in the owners manual or any of the other matierial I've been given.

The only saving grace is that I havent run the engine... when I did that in the Pug it resulted in a con-rode smashing a hole in the cylinder barrel big enough to put your fist through... see I'm leaning...

 

[Colban]

Don't now about wading depths,but your "i think i got half a turn" and the fact that you pumped water out of the cylinder does suggest that hydraulicing has taken place on that cylinder.A good first step maybe to drop the oil and check for emulsion.Removing the plugs to allow any water to be pumped out/air to circulate might be an idea.You can then also turn the motor using the rear wheel (slowly) to check for funny noises.Good luck.

 

[John Armstrong]

Oh shit this sounds like it could be expensive

Do BMW give a wading depth for a GSA ???

Depends if it's your bike?

 

[Tarka]

Get a test ride on a similar machine in the morning,ride it home and swap the number plates over on the two bikes.

Phone the Dealer and say the demo bike 'just stopped'.

 

[LiquidLAN]

Dumb ass design

Ok, getting somewhere, I've managed to get most of the water out, there is still small puffs of water coming out, so bit more effort needed there.

There in some emulsifying (sp) of the oil just inside the filler cap and inside the air box but the oil in the sump is still clean and good.

Dump ass design bit is that I've now worked out where the air intake is it open up on the right side of the bike an inch or so above the right side barrel. The airfilter sits directly above the feeds for the left and right carbs so anything that gets through the filter will dropo straight down into the carb intake.

All I can suggest is that the wade depth is less than 1.5 feet, though the air intake is over 2 foot up without the rider.

Will keep you up to date with anything else useful I find... maybe help preven someone else doing the same thing.

 

[LiquidLAN]

Get a test ride on a similar machine in the morning,ride it home and swap the number plates over on the two bikes.

Phone the Dealer and say the demo bike 'just stopped'.

you know what I'm just soooooo tempted to do that... wonder how quickly I could change all the bits over??? All I'll really need is the top end surely??? dont want to be greedy

 

[Greg Masters]

It shouldn't be too hard to get the bike running again, but you need to get this sorted reasonably quickly before any serious rusting takes place.

If you were only in 18" of water and you didn't drop the bike, there's not likely to be any water in the fuel.

You've taken the plugs out - now check to see if there's any water still in the air box. If there is, get it out by any means you can. If the air-filter is wet, leave it out for now. (Put it in the airing cupboard to dry).

With the plugs out and air filter out, open the throttle fully and crank the engine until you see no water coming out of the plug holes.

Make sure that the plugs are dry and stick them back into the engine. Start the engine in the usual way. If it doesn't start quickly, take the plugs out again and see if they are wet. If they are dry them and repeat.

It should now run. Once you get it started, run it long enough to get up to a reasonable temperature. Put the air filter back in and take it for a decent run to chase any remaining water out.

I doubt that you got any water in the oil, but if you're not sure, change it asap.

Greg

 

[LiquidLAN]

Cheers Greg, I've removed the air filter, that now on a radiator drying, there was a little (only a little water at the bottom of the airbox way below the carb intakes and a misting over the inside walls of the airbox, I've dried both as best I can.

The battery is currently charging as I've been running the bike on started for a fair bit and turn over rate is starting to slow, I have in fact had one or two engine errors, I'm assuming (probably wrongly) its because I've drained the battery.

I've got to be honest I'm very nervous about actually firing the engine up as I did try to start the engine breifly before I removed the plug and I'm not sure that wouldnt have damaged something. As I said I've been through this before with a pug and I really fecked that up.

Will see how dry I can get it, but pretty much decided I'll call BM Assist and get the bike up to NOG for a check over, at the moment I figure the worse I will have dont is bent a con-rode... if that snaps it will get a whole lot worse.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Like somebody said, put the bike on centre stand and in a high gear - then see if you can turn the engine over (with plugs out) by hand by rotating the rear wheel in it's normal direction.

That should teel you how much/if any damage you've done

As ever... I'd take the oil out as a precaution (easy enough to do)

Whether it has warranty or not isn't an issue...........comes under owner negligence and if you've fecked the engine....then you may be able to claim on your bike insurance depending how reasonable your insurance company is

My dealer saw a similar 1200GS (not coincidental, could happen to any bike) that had fecked the engine in same way

Naive owner shouted WARRANTY ..............but all they did was chuckle loudly as it was self induced

New motors about £3k+, by the way

 

[LiquidLAN]

Cheers Johnny, I've tried turning the bike over in gear by rotating the rear wheel, but without much success, I don't think that is sign that it is badly damaged as I know if turns over on the ignition without any nasty noises.

On the warranty side, I know this is not a warranty claim (unless of course it turns out the airbox leaked form somewhere it shouldnt have, fat chance) but the bike is only 6 month old and I dont want to completely invalidate the warranty by blundering forward or tampering too much. I'm kind of resolved that I've done as much preventative stuff as I can and it needs to go into a dealer to be "expertly" looked at and I know this is likely to cost me... my mistake in thinking that less than 15-17" wasnt much... I should have learn by now that size matters.

I'm hoping that what I get back from the dealer is a warrantied bike but I guess we will have to see.

What I dont want to do at this stage is make it all worse.

On the insurance side, I'm with BMW's own, anyone got any experience of what they are like in cases like this? Guess its all down to how big the bill is.

 

[Greg Masters]

Frankly, if you've already damaged the engine (unlikely IMHO), trying to start it won't cause much more damage as, if it is damaged, the bill is going to be pretty big anyway!

Greg

 

[Mouse]

Speaking from experience here, you must drain the oil. Was the water in the ford clean water? If so, you're probably alright.

There's a major moronic design flaw on the 1200, I'll try and describe. If you look inside the airbox, the two intake rubbers are raised about 2-3 inches above the bottom of the box. This means you would need say 3 inches depth of water in the airbox for it to be sucked into the cylinders and lock the engine.

By the way, hydraulic lock, while not exactly desirable, is not usually fatal to bike engines as they have no flywheel and thus much less internal momentum. In a car engne, the momentum of the flywheel is what bends the con rods if the enine locks.

Anyway back to the 1200 air box. Notice that big fat breather pipe on the left hand side of the bike, going from the bottom of the airbox to the left hand cylinder head. That's the crankcase breather. Any water that gets into the airbox, that doesn't get sucked into the intakes runs straight down that breather into your crankcase, and from there into the sump. If there's any dirt or grit in the water, and you run the engine, it'll be picked up by the oil pump and distributed round every bearing in the engine.

Needless to say, this is not good.

A simple cure for this would be for the breather tube to be extended inside the airbox, so it's above the level of the intakes.

 

[LiquidLAN]

Ok, so you know I said that the oil hadnt emulsified... well it looks like I was wrong on that one... I'm pretty sure it was clear last night, but looking at it this morning its very slightly milky.

Off to call BMW and get the cheque book out I guess.

feck feck feck

 

[LOLGEOFF]

If you have already cranked it over and it spins OK, replace oil and filter if it makes you feel better, whack the plugs in and fire it up. That's all that BWM are going to do except they probably won't change the oil first. If it goes bang clang they will say your engines f*cked that'll be x amount of pounds to fix. If it doesn't they'll say that will be X amount of pounds for the inspection we've changed the oil and filter as a precaution just keep your eye on it for a while and your rear tyre tread looks a bit low do you want us to cxhange it?

 

[Steptoe]

FFS, you've done the right things - now fire it up. You've had no worse happen than on most ford rides. They even tip the bikes up and drain the water out

Than change the engine oil and filter.

Thats what the dealer will do.

 

[Colban]

If you have already cranked it over and it spins OK, replace oil and filter if it makes you feel better, whack the plugs in and fire it up. That's all that BWM are going to do except they probably won't change the oil first. If it goes bang clang they will say your engines f*cked that'll be x amount of pounds to fix. If it doesn't they'll say that will be X amount of pounds for the inspection we've changed the oil and filter as a precaution just keep your eye on it for a while and your rear tyre tread looks a bit low do you want us to cxhange it?

+1
If it spins on the starter with no funny noises,thats good but i would definetely change the oil.As the man said,thats what BWMs oily herberts are going to do.
Would it be worth a call to Steptoe first though?.

 

[LiquidLAN]

Cheers for all the help and support guys.

Its up and North Oxford at the moment, I'm pretty happy that I've done everything right up to this point.

In response to Mouse's question, the water was clean and the airfilter still in, that looks clean on both sides so I'm not too worried about grit etc getting in the sump. I completely understand what you are saying about the airbox design also it looks like BM had changed the design on the air intake as well as it appears it might actually be lower than on the 1150GSA (can't moan about that, I should have check it before).

Completely agree about the breather pipe, the annoying this is that it looks as if I'd have got water in the oil even if I hadnt drawn it into the cylinders. (oh well, will have to see if I can modify that)

The really good bit is the no flywheel... hopefully you will not know how much mess a con-rod make when it breaks, but having seen it I know I dont want to see it again.

Steptoe, you are probably right about firing it up, the one thing that has really stopped me on this (and I've not mentioned it yet) it that it appears the right side piston head has coked up and when I tried to put the spark plug back in it felt like the thread was sticking. My concern was that the coke might have flaked off and while it wont do any damage in the thread I figured it would if it was blown into a valve seat.

OK I know I've wussed out a bit... but you really should have seen the state of the pug I did the same thig two a few years back... I guess part of me thinks if I have damaged it the damage should be limited to the con-rod, crank and getting the cack oil out, at least I can't see into bits of the engine I shouldnt be able to.

Will keep you up to date

 

[Greg Masters]

OK I know I've wussed out a bit...

I don't think anyone has suggested that you've wussed out a bit ....



Greg

PS ... but it's your bike and your wallet.

PPS Do let us know how much North Oxford stiff you.