Help!!! I've just drowned my 12GSA
- Thread starter LiquidLAN
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Plugs out, air box drained, turn it over on full throttle till it stops blowing water out. Plugs back in then ride away. An oil and filter change if you want when you get home. 
LiquidLAN
Registered user
Cheers Noddy, great set of pics, looking at the second one thats deeper than I got and lets face it that just aint that deep... I've got to be honest I think I'm a little disappointed that it happened at all, these are biike built to go round the world but will get floored by less than 18" of water. I dont want this to sound like a whine, but that just seems like a really dumb place for an air intake.
I've been through deeper water on a Honda VT250 and the air intake on my old ZZR1100 was way higher than that.
One of the things that concerns me about the design, is that as Mouse pointed out, the standard air box has the breather pipe so low that even if there wasnt enough water going in to stop the engine there would definately have been enough to enter the oil system and emulsify the oil and that wouldnt have been noticed until I next checked the oil.
Anyway, will see what suggestions NOG come up with to avoid some of this in future and might also offer some constructive feed back up at the bike show later today.
As I say, I'm not whining, my choice to go through, and I'm old enough to take responsibility for that, just a bit disappointed that teh bike could have been floored so easily... lucky for me this happened a couple of miles down the road and not in the wilderness somewhere.
see you all later guys
I've been through deeper water on a Honda VT250 and the air intake on my old ZZR1100 was way higher than that.
One of the things that concerns me about the design, is that as Mouse pointed out, the standard air box has the breather pipe so low that even if there wasnt enough water going in to stop the engine there would definately have been enough to enter the oil system and emulsify the oil and that wouldnt have been noticed until I next checked the oil.
Anyway, will see what suggestions NOG come up with to avoid some of this in future and might also offer some constructive feed back up at the bike show later today.
As I say, I'm not whining, my choice to go through, and I'm old enough to take responsibility for that, just a bit disappointed that teh bike could have been floored so easily... lucky for me this happened a couple of miles down the road and not in the wilderness somewhere.
see you all later guys
Dick Dastardly
Registered user
Hope ya don't get stiffed too much, but............. 
Your bike was just off to the workshop in Chris' tender hands at about 9 this am when I was in so they should be able to give you an update.
Paul
Paul
any news
dont want to have to go to nog to find out for myself, but as i`m there about twice a week it`s no great hardship..
dont want to have to go to nog to find out for myself, but as i`m there about twice a week it`s no great hardship..
In my experiance insurance companies will pay up for hydraulicd motors caused by flooding 
If any members own a Range Rover, Range Rover Sport or Discovery 3 diesel I'd advise you to take extra care when filling it up at the pumps. £5000 is the current going rate if you want to maintain your vehicles engine & fuel injection system's warranty
If any members own a Range Rover, Range Rover Sport or Discovery 3 diesel I'd advise you to take extra care when filling it up at the pumps. £5000 is the current going rate if you want to maintain your vehicles engine & fuel injection system's warranty
If there's any dirt or grit in the water, and you run the engine, it'll be picked up by the oil pump and distributed round every bearing in the engine.
Don't you use an oil filter then ?
I find them very helpful for removing detritus from the oil supply to the bearings.
I can't believe this thread
wide open throttle - 5 secs spin on starter to throw the water down the exhaust - close throttle - start it.
you need some 'start ya bastard'
PS - sounds like you started to cross thread the plug when you were putting it back in. it ain't gonna coke up in a short period.
Don't you use an oil filter then ?
I find them very helpful for removing detritus from the oil supply to the bearings.
I can't believe this thread
wide open throttle - 5 secs spin on starter to throw the water down the exhaust - close throttle - start it.
you need some 'start ya bastard'
PS - sounds like you started to cross thread the plug when you were putting it back in. it ain't gonna coke up in a short period.
Mouse
Registered user
Oh you got me, I was just making it all up to trick you. Having had absolutely no personal experience of this issue with a 1200, I'd advise anyone with water in their engine to do what all the 1150 owners suggest. All that stuff about the big breather pipe design flaw, that was fiction too. Nothing to see here.
any news?
come on, spill the beans...
come on, spill the beans...
LiquidLAN
Registered user
Nothing to report, its still with NOG.
I would strongly advise you to avoid Shilton ford.
I would strongly advise you to avoid Shilton ford.
I'll bet they're using it as a demonstrator!LiquidLAN said:
Greg
LiquidLAN said:
Sounds terminal
LiquidLAN
Registered user
What happened next?
Having dropped the bike into NOG on the Thursday morning, the oil was replaced and replaced and the engine was run up to temperature after a bit of effort in getting it started. The oil was then replaced again but it was found that the engine still wouldn’t run smoothly. The initial estimate I received two weeks back was for a complete engine and starter motor replacement including labour £4,500 (more or less).
After some initial investigation I discovered that as this was a company motorbike, purchased under a business to business transaction I had no other option than to proceed with this as an insurance claim. Apart from some initial confusion resulting from the insurance company requesting the bike be moved from one BMW dealer to another and dealers refusing (too strong a word) to take work off each other, the whole insurance side of it has been incredibly smooth. BMW Insurance have been excellent to deal with – that said having never personally had to make a claim in twenty odd years of motoring I have nothing to compare against.
And now, the story two weeks down the line.
Ok, so this morning I had a nice chat with the insurance assessors and the guys over at NOG and it seems I have the dubious honour of being the first person in the UK (and maybe further a field) to have a new engine fitted into a BMW R1200GS Adventure. How do I know this, apparently there is still a health and safety ticket on the short block and whole engine that needs to be removed before they can be issued as a stock item.
We are still to see inside the engine as (understandably) NOG wouldn’t proceed with any further work on it without authorization and until now no-one has been in a position to authorize it. The initial advice being, a complete new engine is as cheap, if not cheaper than rebuilding the existing one. Authorization has been given this morning for the engine to be stripped and inspected so we know what parts are needed. It now looks as if I will be only getting the short block replaced rather than an entire engine as apparently the whole engine as initially quoted is no longer available, but the end result will be the same as it is likely to cost more in labour inspecting and rebuilding.
I was initially expecting there to be nothing much more serious that a bent con-rod, unfortunately it seems that this is not something that is sold separately on the R1200 engines, all NOG are able to get now is the short block engine and any additional parts outside that. Shiredevon, I don’t know how much damage there is to your engine, but you might want to take note of that before you get too far through your rebuild.
Words from BMW UK
Well their advertising brochure "R 1200 GS Adventure - Explore your horizon.”, as I have pointed out elsewhere, states that the bike is "Ready to take on the world, as standard. If you're looking for adventure, you can't let challenges get the better of you. The R 1200 GS Adventure boasts a range of features fitted as standard that ensure you won't have to shy away from anything. It's the world's only travel enduro that comes ready to tackle anything Mother Nature can throw at it."
Unfortunately despite proving these claims unfounded, I have been unable to find anything in any of the other literature that comes with the bike that would suggest what the bikes limits actually are. During initial discussions with BMW customer services, I was told that BMW engines are not designed to go through water at all, but they subsequently revised this to the attached statement. I am still no nearer understanding what can be expected of the bike and what its limits actually are.
What are my thoughts and feeling at this point?
I’ve got to be honest while I’m very grateful to NOG for all their help so far, I know that they are reading this, and for their efforts in investigating what warranty or assistance BMW are able to offer (none it turns out) and to BMW Insurance for all their help and assistance, I still find myself feeling very disappointed and let down by the bike.
This was the first BMW I have ever considered owning and I chose this over other endures because it appeared to be the most robust and suitable bike in this category on the market, this wasn’t just backed up by the marketing but by real world examples. I seriously doubt I would buy another BMW again.
Where did all this start?
Just inside Oxfordshire
Here three quarters of the way across Shilton Ford
In sixteen inches of water.
Having dropped the bike into NOG on the Thursday morning, the oil was replaced and replaced and the engine was run up to temperature after a bit of effort in getting it started. The oil was then replaced again but it was found that the engine still wouldn’t run smoothly. The initial estimate I received two weeks back was for a complete engine and starter motor replacement including labour £4,500 (more or less).
After some initial investigation I discovered that as this was a company motorbike, purchased under a business to business transaction I had no other option than to proceed with this as an insurance claim. Apart from some initial confusion resulting from the insurance company requesting the bike be moved from one BMW dealer to another and dealers refusing (too strong a word) to take work off each other, the whole insurance side of it has been incredibly smooth. BMW Insurance have been excellent to deal with – that said having never personally had to make a claim in twenty odd years of motoring I have nothing to compare against.
And now, the story two weeks down the line.
Ok, so this morning I had a nice chat with the insurance assessors and the guys over at NOG and it seems I have the dubious honour of being the first person in the UK (and maybe further a field) to have a new engine fitted into a BMW R1200GS Adventure. How do I know this, apparently there is still a health and safety ticket on the short block and whole engine that needs to be removed before they can be issued as a stock item.
We are still to see inside the engine as (understandably) NOG wouldn’t proceed with any further work on it without authorization and until now no-one has been in a position to authorize it. The initial advice being, a complete new engine is as cheap, if not cheaper than rebuilding the existing one. Authorization has been given this morning for the engine to be stripped and inspected so we know what parts are needed. It now looks as if I will be only getting the short block replaced rather than an entire engine as apparently the whole engine as initially quoted is no longer available, but the end result will be the same as it is likely to cost more in labour inspecting and rebuilding.
I was initially expecting there to be nothing much more serious that a bent con-rod, unfortunately it seems that this is not something that is sold separately on the R1200 engines, all NOG are able to get now is the short block engine and any additional parts outside that. Shiredevon, I don’t know how much damage there is to your engine, but you might want to take note of that before you get too far through your rebuild.
Words from BMW UK
Well their advertising brochure "R 1200 GS Adventure - Explore your horizon.”, as I have pointed out elsewhere, states that the bike is "Ready to take on the world, as standard. If you're looking for adventure, you can't let challenges get the better of you. The R 1200 GS Adventure boasts a range of features fitted as standard that ensure you won't have to shy away from anything. It's the world's only travel enduro that comes ready to tackle anything Mother Nature can throw at it."
Unfortunately despite proving these claims unfounded, I have been unable to find anything in any of the other literature that comes with the bike that would suggest what the bikes limits actually are. During initial discussions with BMW customer services, I was told that BMW engines are not designed to go through water at all, but they subsequently revised this to the attached statement. I am still no nearer understanding what can be expected of the bike and what its limits actually are.
What are my thoughts and feeling at this point?
I’ve got to be honest while I’m very grateful to NOG for all their help so far, I know that they are reading this, and for their efforts in investigating what warranty or assistance BMW are able to offer (none it turns out) and to BMW Insurance for all their help and assistance, I still find myself feeling very disappointed and let down by the bike.
This was the first BMW I have ever considered owning and I chose this over other endures because it appeared to be the most robust and suitable bike in this category on the market, this wasn’t just backed up by the marketing but by real world examples. I seriously doubt I would buy another BMW again.
Where did all this start?
Just inside Oxfordshire
Here three quarters of the way across Shilton Ford
In sixteen inches of water.
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To put it mildly, I'm staggered!
The engine is running (albeit roughly) - nobody has identified any fault with the mechnical components, and the insurance company is paying for a new engine.
Yer what??
No wonder my insurance premiums are so high.
Greg
The engine is running (albeit roughly) - nobody has identified any fault with the mechnical components, and the insurance company is paying for a new engine.
Yer what??
No wonder my insurance premiums are so high.
Greg
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Just reread your posting LL, and more confused than before.
what exaclty does
mean ? A H&S ticket ? What sort of 'ticket' and for what purpose?
And then they've authorised a full engine (and starter ) without being able to say whats wrong with the current engine cos they haven't as yet been able to strip it? Even the idea that a strip and rebuild would be more than £4,500 seems somewhat dubious.
I'm pretty certain that there have been new engines and engine builds prior to yours - I personally shagged the bottom end of a 1200 on the Level 2 course and they just had it diary'd in for a rebuild.
I think someone is trying to confusticate you.......
LC
what exaclty does
mean ? A H&S ticket ? What sort of 'ticket' and for what purpose?
And then they've authorised a full engine (and starter
) without being able to say whats wrong with the current engine cos they haven't as yet been able to strip it? Even the idea that a strip and rebuild would be more than £4,500 seems somewhat dubious.I'm pretty certain that there have been new engines and engine builds prior to yours - I personally shagged the bottom end of a 1200 on the Level 2 course and they just had it diary'd in for a rebuild.
I think someone is trying to confusticate you.......
LC
LiquidLAN
Registered user
Lou Can said:
Sorry Lou, probably my fault. From what I've been told, this is a part that is listed but does not have the necessary Health and Safety sign off to allow it to be order on the BMW system. What that sign off is, was not made clear, but the indication was the sign off was on the part itself before BMW could start shipping it. The H&S ticket has no direct connection to my bike.
Cheers for the tip on the website though, it might help me with something else I’m trying to sort out.
I’m kind of with both you and Greg on this, part of the reason I’m so disillusioned is that I feel the costs far out-weight what I would consider reasonable considering what the bike is reputed to be capable of compared with what I’ve actually done to it. In fairness to the insurance company, they are in the same boat as I am in that we are both being told the cost of the strip down and rebuild is likely to be as much if not more than the short-engine / complete engine option and even then there is no guarantee we would need a new engine. As it is I think they have chosen to go for the short engine as a potentially cheaper route, but even then we are told that the higher labour costs are likely to amount to the same final bill at the end of the day.
The one thing I’m grateful for is that this did happen a few miles up the road and not in the middle of Mongolia; its taken two weeks to get to this point and indications are I’m likely to be without a bike now until the 8th December at the earliest… god knows what hassle, expense and delay I’d have encountered if I was on the kind of trip these bike are allegedly built for? That said I think I might have been far more tempted just to ride it and see what happened.
Please don't read this the wrong way, I'm not doubting the information I am getting from NOG or trying to call it into question in anyway, I'm simply reporting it back as it has been told to me. There was talk of the bike going to BVM at one point, they've not seen the bike, but they did suggest that they're findings would only confirm NOGs but with the additional costs of transport etc.
LiquidLAN
Registered user
Greg Masters said:To put it mildly, I'm staggered!
The engine is running (albeit roughly) - nobody has identified any fault with the mechnical components, and the insurance company is paying for a new engine.
Yer what??
No wonder my insurance premiums are so high.
Greg
The trouble is what do you do?
I've been riding bike since I was 14 off-road and on-road since I was 16. In all that time I've never had to make a claim. I'm reasonably sure that I have the skill and 99% of the tools to do the work myself.
The trouble is we are talking about a bike here that is less than 6 months old and in theory should be fully warranted. I know it’s a slightly mute point now, but the moment I take a spanner to it I can kiss good bye to all that.
As far as I can see I had no option than to give it to a main dealer and having been presented with the bill as it is a company bike bought on a business to business contract no other option than to raise an insurance claim.
I’m lucky that my no claims is protected, but even then like you I have seen increasing insurance premiums year on year since I took my first one out.
As I say, what do you do?
again...
Please don't read this the wrong way, I'm not doubting the information I am getting from NOG or trying to call it into question in anyway, I'm simply reporting it back as it has been told to me. There was talk of the bike going to BVM at one point, they've not seen the bike, but they did suggest that they're findings would only confirm NOGs but with the additional costs of transport etc.
John
I think from where you are, you do what you've done. you're not a confident mechanic and you may have an aversion to mchanical risk. So you shove it in to the dealer to sort. That's not what I'd do, but it's what you did and that's fine.
But I just don't understand the next bit. The dealer gets it running and it doesn't go bang. They haven't found anything wrong yet they're fitting a new engine - and the insurance is paying!!
For you it's a great deal. No loss of no claims and a new donkey for your mount.
Greg
I think from where you are, you do what you've done. you're not a confident mechanic and you may have an aversion to mchanical risk. So you shove it in to the dealer to sort. That's not what I'd do, but it's what you did and that's fine.
But I just don't understand the next bit. The dealer gets it running and it doesn't go bang. They haven't found anything wrong yet they're fitting a new engine - and the insurance is paying!!
For you it's a great deal. No loss of no claims and a new donkey for your mount.
Greg
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