Help me decide VFR800 or R1200GS

[pinkolive]

I understand BMW are still going to make the 1150 Adv

surely it doesnt matter how much better the the Adv is than the standard 1150 offroad nobody in their right mind is going to buy one when the 1200 should be better offroad straight from crate.

id be pissed off if id shelled out premium money for an Adv in 03/04 then BMW bring out the 1200

looks to me that BMW wanted to give the 1150 a sales boost during a period when sales would have slowed as punters where waiting for the 1200

i know what id rather go offroad on

a KTM

 

[Eurostar]

Most Adv owners buy them for the looks, not the supposed offroad ability. Anyway the only thing about the Adv that's really useful offroad is the optional lower first gear. If you wanted a GS mainly for offroading the best starting point would be a cosmetically challenged 1100. A nice low first gear and plenty of money left over for Ohlins forks. And no tears when you drop it.

I too would rather go off road on a KTM than an 1150GS, but that's missing the point. You can't take a spare bike with you on long trips. Where the GS is king is that you can comfortably get to Spain with a tent and a girlfriend AND have fun on dirt roads when you get there.

 

[RickGS]

Last December I traded my XX for the 1150GS. Since they were coming out with the 1200GS I got a new 1150GS and saved 35% of the MRSP and got 3 year full warranty. Since it's winter down here with snow, I wasn't able to test ride it first but had to make a decision. So i bought it. If I don't like it well at least I won't loose that much because it's already depreciated. I have to wait till mid april in order to try the GS for the first time.

I just hope I won't be disapointed

Rick

 

[robeekay67]

jap vs kraut

hold ur money. wait for the bugs to come out of the new r1200gs. and whatever monkey wrote on here the vfr costs more to service than a gs is obviously a sunday rider only in the summer. if you ride a gs as it was intended, it DOES cost more to run than a jap bike. full stop. end of story. no contest. i have the full set of bills to prove it. add to the fact you have to pay through the nose for a beemer in the first place......nuff said.....

 

[richie]

Last December I traded my XX for the 1150GS. Since they were coming out with the 1200GS I got a new 1150GS and saved 35% of the MRSP and got 3 year full warranty. Since it's winter down here with snow, I wasn't able to test ride it first but had to make a decision. So i bought it. If I don't like it well at least I won't loose that much because it's already depreciated. I have to wait till mid april in order to try the GS for the first time.

I just hope I won't be disapointed

Rick

Rick don't worry about it, it 'll be ok just hold on for spring...

 

[banana]

I would agree that buying an Adventure, only to have the 1200GS 'appear' might be a
'disappointment', but whilst they are both being 'offered' it's not such an 'issue'.

Last summer when I rode the 1150GS, I also sat on the 1150GS 'Adventure' with the bigger tank. I quickly concluded that the 'size' of the 'Adventure' meant that I wasn't 'compatible' with it and the 1150GS was the only option (then).

Whilst I wait for my test ride, I'm conjuring up a 'picture' of 'my' 1200GS:
1. 'black' seat
2. A 'yellow' or 'red' banana
3. Grips and alarm

Anyone else have doubts about the 'panel' colour? Until I have 'seen' one for real I can't decide...

Kind regards,
Simon

'Ensete ventricosum'
Common Name: Red Banana

 

[BBB61]

if you ride a gs as it was intended, it DOES cost more to run than a jap bike. full stop. end of story. no contest

It depends on where you get it serviced. Sawbridgeworth are very expensive (Hopefully they weren't doing your tyres for you. A friend got charged £152 for a front tyre on his K1200 there. I pointed him to Universal tyres where he was charged £205 for BOTH tyres including wheel removal). A short run to Cannons in Chelmsford rewards you with considerably lower servicing costs. Doing it yourself lowers the costs even more.

And the boxer engine is much more maintenance friendly. Checking and adjusting the valve clearances is a doddle. Not so on most jap bikes where special tools and shims are needed if the valve clearances need adjusting. The VFR800VTEC needs about 5 hours alone to check the valve clearances every 16000 miles. It takes 15-20 mins to check and adjust the valves on a boxer engine every 6000 miles. Not to mention the longer service intervals compared to most jap bikes and not having to buy chains and sprockets at regular intervals.

Bob

 

[sven]

Having owned a BMW and 3 VFR's, I'd say that Honda's are FAR cheaper to service. Yamaha's cheaper still.

I know a few folk who've had the 16K service done on a VTEC and the costs have been no where near as expensive as predicted. In reality, it only adds an hour or two to the old VFR800 service times.

It's still unnecessarily complicated and ruined the character of the bike - I loved my old VFR800FiY but sold my VTEC after 4 months...........

A VFR with a K&N filter and Quill T3 exhaust is anything but bland (inline fours are bland - V4's have character).

As far as buying is concerned, test ride all the bikes you're interested in and buy the one which puts the biggest grin on your face.

I loved the R1100GS, but thought the 1150GS wasn't as much fun (still a good bike though). Both are a bit underpowered.

The 1200 sounds very interesting though - 100bhp and 199kg. Probably the perfect roadbike.

 

[red rocket]

Hello Sven thought I recognized you .
I agree entirely with your vfr comments & like you rate the 800 as the best after 2 disastrous v-tecs went back to a late FI Y .

Now dont take this wrong but a lot of the guys on here rave about the gs but then state what they have added to it to make it the great bike it is .I have added nothing to the 800 & tour France twice a year.
I went to a local evening with Nick Sanders a couple of weeks ago & when asked what bike he would ride if given the choice he said strangely enough as you have seen in the films I have just shown you you would expect me to say a GS .Well lets just say he isnt a great fan think he said on the last trip 6 broke down & without any prompting (honest ) he said what you want is a vfr now those buggers never brake down .

I am a member of the BMW club as I loved my first real bike a R100RS and still go camping with the BM club I am tempted to go the GS route as I like the fact they have a bit of a hooligan attitude etc.
But I have 2 major concerns
1 we have recently lost our local daeler Linds Norwich
2 the reliabily aspect it seems there are a lot of Friday nighters around & the gearbox issue frightens me a little as I have heard of so many needing new boxes has any body done a poll to see the likely mileage you can expect from one .
Oh well maybe one day
Ian

 

[robeekay67]

A short run to Cannons in Chelmsford rewards you with considerably lower servicing costs

bob, been there, got the tee shirt. bmw's are by their very nature more expensive to run than a jap bike.

i agree the vtec vfr unfairly has this noose round its head but the major service price was capped sometime ago by honda uk to under 500 quid.

my last 42k gs service (therefore 6k service) weighed in at the 300 quid mark (albeit a chunk of that was undoing some of the work done by the previous official monkey who shall remain nameless)

i also support the guy's remarks above pointing out that for a world touring bike u gotta spend shed loads on accessories....kinda beats the point of spending 9-10k on the think in the first place dont you think?

personnaly, if i was going to do a rtw expedition, id cross the gs off my list for being far too complicated, heavy and hard to fix when it broke. bmw have done to the gs what land rover did to the range rover; take it so upmarket and make it so style concious, its not capable of doing the job it was originally designed for.......

 

[BBB61]

The trouble with most of the jap bikes is that they need more frequent servicing than the BMW's, usually every 4000 miles, so by the time 12000 miles are done, you've had 3 services compared to 2 on the BMW. Some BMW dealers do charge silly money, but there are others that are much more reasonable. And of course for people with the skills, they are a doddle to service at home.

You say BM's are more expensive to run than the Jap stuff, but when it comes to consumables, there is no chain and sprocket kit to replace and when it comes to tyres, no Jap bike (large capacity one that is)I have owned has ever managed 11000 miles out of a rear tyre. The tyres are cheaper to replace than on a VFR too.

The answer is for people to shop around and try other dealers if they can't do it themselves, but Sawbridgeworth get along just fine as there are plenty of people who will go in, pay the charges and not quibble about it.

Me, I'm a tight git. I don't mind paying for quality goods, but I want to get the best deal for it. And I don't like paying £60 an hour to someone when I know I can do it myself.

Bob

 

[pinkolive]

£60/hour
id like to see how they make that up - coz i bet the monkey doin the job isnt getting more than £15/hr

 

[banana]

I want to compare tyre costs/likely mileage VFR to GS.

Home much do the tyres cost on the 1150GS to replace? How long should they last?

I have my original VFR's front, but had to have the back tyre replaced - it was 92 UKP which seems reasonable for a quite 'chunky' tyre and the original model's replacement recomendation: a Bridgestone 020.

Kind regards,
Banana

 

[robeekay67]

jap bike

bob.

i wish i had the engineering skills not to attend a dealership but god made sure i get confused working out what a sprocket is!

also, for the sake of your warrenty, the bike has to grace the workshop of a mechanic who is at least vat registered to keep it 9the warrenty) bona fide.

i challenge the mileage schedules; ive bought a fazer very recently and it only needs fettling every 6000 miles.

as for the chain/sprocket argument, well, a scott oiler sorts out the chain longevity (well in excess of 15k miles); in any case a new chain can work out less than the cost of 2 hours in a work shop getting your rear diff leak sorted!

tyres; not a problem. price difference isnt massively large and i actually enjoy have a better choice of road biased rubber.

finally, mechanic costs are at least half of any bmw dealer on a yamaha and the bike itself works out thousands cheaper in the first place than paying up for a new r1200gs. it also needs far less accessorising and even if you do go bling crazy, the most over spec'd fazer will weigh in at less than 7.5k.

 

[red rocket]

although I ride a vfr I am still a member of the bmw club .This really is a brilliant club with a superb monthly magazine and plenty of camping events etc http://www.bmw-club.org.uk/ for anybody interested.
Now I am costantly reminded about the cost of chains etc but I think some of the BMW guys think you still take them off & boil them in grease .My last 800 I traded in at 16000 miles & the last adjustment went from service to service & this included a Swizz pass route down to the Med two up having a blast.This was with no Scott oiler just a wash every 600 miles or so & castrol chain lube the chain I am sure would have done well in excess of 20,000 miles
Now tyres is not so good rear never managed much over 4000 front normally double that .
Servicing I do recent the 4000 miles intervals but wasn't aware until recently this does not necessarily include an oil change just that most people do .
Ian

 

[BBB61]

finally, mechanic costs are at least half of any bmw dealer on a yamaha

You have found a main franchised Yamaha dealer that will service your bike for £30 an hour?

Bob

 

[robeekay67]

You have found a main franchised Yamaha dealer that will service your bike for £30 an hour?

why the obsession with franchise? in the real world, a bike repairer who is vat registered can keep a warrenty valid. infact my labour rates for the yam are £20 p/h... and why would i go non franchise? well, im very lucky to have a local mechanic who worked in a racing team so you could say hes done one or two courses...mind you, two places in chelmsford are also only £30 p/h.....so in answer to your q, yep i have.

 

[BBB61]

You can't compare an independent who is going to service your Yamaha with the cost of having your old GS serviced by a franchised BMW dealer. To make the comparison meaningful, you have to compare like with like which means comparing a BMW with a Yamaha franchise on a servicing cost basis.

And has your race mechanic done all the courses he needs to keep up to date with the servicing requirements made by Yamaha? Maybe you should ask to see his qualifications and certificates for the Yamaha servicing courses he has done. Will Yamaha honour the warranty if you have the bike serviced by this guy? Does he have professional indemnity cover?

And the 2 places in Chelmsford charging £30 an hour, does that include VAT and are they franchised dealers or independents?

Bob

 

[robeekay67]

bob.

one year hence of riding the fazer i will publish all associated costs with the bike and compare it to one year on the beemer.

i dont think you cover as many miles as i do year on year as otherwise you'd understand better what keeping a bmw on the road really costs if you choose to keep it in a dealer network.

the obsession with demanding certificates off a garge means stuff all; my best service in 42k's worth of miles has come from a man who has been outside the bmw domain for the better part of two years.

i dont believe the chain cost argument can still be used; asides, whats cheaper to repair a chain or a shaft?

tyre costs are not massively different and as i said before, i welcome a better choice of road rubber.

 

[robeekay67]

oh btw, as previously stated, ANY establishment that is VAT registered will keep a warranty valid.