Help, stuck in services, bike not starting

[klincoln01]

Would really appreciate any ideas on this. Just ridden 130 miles on 2010 1200GSA no probs and stopped at services for pit stop. Go out 20 mins later and bike refuses to start. Power ok, start check ok. Press start button and 'click'. Have newish battery and starter motor contacts cleaned a couple of weeks ago.

Any ideas?
Any help v v gratefully received.
Cheers Keith

 

[nick.ct]

Sounds like the same thing again................... a contact number may help peeps talk you through any ideas

Continually 'clicking' the starter may resolve the issue.............. this time

Good luck

 

[mikeyboy]

loose battery terminal?

 

[notadrop]

Sounds like battery? Can you get a jump from a helpful motorist at the services? Or use breakdown cover (if you have it?) for jump start.
Similar happened to me - new battery needed. It was always on charge when not in use. Rode 40 miles, stopped for fuel. Wouldn't start....nice AA bike patrol got me going with a jump start and followed me to bike shop to get new battery.
Good luck

 

[Fanum]

Put bike in gear, roll it forwards a few inches and then back into Neutral, try starting again.

Vaguely possible ring gear damaged, so this will move it around a few degrees onto new teeth.

I'd also try the classic old tapping the starter with a hammer/spanner etc.....obviously take the plastic cover off first.

PS what services are you at, in case there's a tosser close by who may be able to assist physically?

 

[Paul G (BHT)]

.... Have newish battery and starter motor contacts cleaned a couple of weeks ago.....

Check nothing to do with those jobs have worked their way loose

 

[klincoln01]

Prob fixed. Thanks for all advice. After 2 hours of waiting and when green flag arrives it starts straight away! Can only think I have a heat related problem with starter motor.

 

[kwallace21]

Check your battery terminals are on nice and tight with no play in them.
My money is on one of them being loose.

 

[morty]

hey,
you could be onto something there! when my bike is at running temp,it has difficulty turning over to restart sometimes,can't see there being a thermocouple in starter or thermal overload? It's always done it & put it down to trait of the bike.

 

[Bendy toy]

If its not loose terminals, dirty or worn starter motor brushes can cause weak or intermittent starting.

PS - DONT run the donor car (or bike) engine when jump starting. Sensitive vehicle electronics are usually switched out during engine cranking but when jump starting they will be alive and can be damaged by electrical spikes noise from the starter.

 

[Mr K]

If its not loose terminals, dirty or worn starter motor brushes can cause weak or intermittent starting.

PS - DONT run the donor car (or bike) engine when jump starting. Sensitive vehicle electronics are usually switched out during engine cranking but when jump starting they will be alive and can be damaged by electrical spikes noise from the starter.

I disagree.
Doing anything other than having donor vehicle running risks stranding 2 vehicles. If the engine is running and charging the donor vehicle won't be affected by a load across the battery.

 

[The Prospector]

I disagree.
Doing anything other than having donor vehicle running risks stranding 2 vehicles. If the engine is running and charging the donor vehicle won't be affected by a load across the battery.

I know you can buy anti spike jump leads but when our muckyanics jump start a truck they have the donor vehicle running and the one to be started has the headlights switched on even if the battery is completely flat, they say it's to stop the electronics being damaged, how or why this works I know not.

 

[Pukmeister]

I would guess that having a load already on the vehicle gives rise to a current flow, which reduces the impact of the inrush current when the starter motor is used compared to if no current flow was there when starting.

 

[flatdog]

I disagree.
Doing anything other than having donor vehicle running risks stranding 2 vehicles. If the engine is running and charging the donor vehicle won't be affected by a load across the battery.

Just remember the bike v Vehicle batterys are huuuugly different in spec, alway turn off charging car/truck etc before jumpstarting. The car will charge at a different rate than the bike's battry, hence it/ the bikes electronics may not survive the voltage change.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Above Re Jump starting

Positive to Positive BUT on both the the car and the bike use a frame / chassis earth !!!

That saves bubbling the electrolyte if the battery is bad by connecting it across the terminals and the "mass" of the bike engine frame etc helps to stop current surge!

 

[eonbkuk]

hey,
you could be onto something there! when my bike is at running temp,it has difficulty turning over to restart sometimes,can't see there being a thermocouple in starter or thermal overload? It's always done it & put it down to trait of the bike.

had a similar problem on saturday in the smoke 33 degrees running slow escorting cyclists stopped turned off bike went to turn it on 20 mins later and it struggled, forward onto monday started like a dreamany suggestions

 

[Bendy toy]

I disagree.
Doing anything other than having donor vehicle running risks stranding 2 vehicles. If the engine is running and charging the donor vehicle won't be affected by a load across the battery.

A donor bike with a battery that dodgy simply should not be used as a donor. A car battery so weak that it cant boost a tiddly bike battery is unlikely to get the car out of the garage in the first place.

The risks of running the donor are:

• Over charging the weak (rescued) battery, but in the short time its connected not much harm will be done. Anyway the donor charging circuit is voltage controlled so overcharging is unlikely.
• The rescued starter will send voltage spikes and noise into the donor electrical system. During a normal engine start, sensitive stuff is switched out. But in this case, all that sensitive stuff is lined up to get fried. Even leaving the ignition on risks smoking the stereo and maybe the body ECU.
• connecting jump leads to an internally shorted battery can cause enough current surge to damage the donor alternator.

A flat car/bike battery so bad that it's sucking all the charge from the donor would indicate an internal short circuit. If it can be got to run at all, the alternator could be overloaded trying to feed a short circuit.

If the donor engine is switched off and connecting that last jump cable clamp causes some serious arcing, its likely the failed battery has shorted out internally. Trying to add more power by running the donor engine risks blowing at least its alternator and potentially a lot more.

So however its counted dont run the donor engine. The risks are too great and the benefits (if any) are minimal.

 

[birdseye]

the benefits are significant. with the engine running the donor battery voltage will be at least 1 volt higher than with the engine not running. there is a significant voltage drop along the jump leads when taking 80 amps to power a starter not to mention the internal voltage drop in the donor battery itself. So with the donor engine running the bike starter will turn over much quicker and start the bike easier.

Recharging the bike battery will have to be done by the bike engine - it takes far too long to do it via jump leads. The risk of a serious dead short in minute but you are right it could happen, in which case the donor vehicle is in the poo too whether engine is running or not.

" A donor bike with a battery that dodgy simply should not be used as a donor. A car battery so weak that it cant boost a tiddly bike battery is unlikely to get the car out of the garage in the first place." Absolutely right.

 

[Mr K]

A donor bike with a battery that dodgy simply should not be used as a donor. A car battery so weak that it cant boost a tiddly bike battery is unlikely to get the car out of the garage in the first place.

The risks of running the donor are:

• Over charging the weak (rescued) battery, but in the short time its connected not much harm will be done. Anyway the donor charging circuit is voltage controlled so overcharging is unlikely.
• The rescued starter will send voltage spikes and noise into the donor electrical system. During a normal engine start, sensitive stuff is switched out. But in this case, all that sensitive stuff is lined up to get fried. Even leaving the ignition on risks smoking the stereo and maybe the body ECU.
• connecting jump leads to an internally shorted battery can cause enough current surge to damage the donor alternator.

A flat car/bike battery so bad that it's sucking all the charge from the donor would indicate an internal short circuit. If it can be got to run at all, the alternator could be overloaded trying to feed a short circuit.

If the donor engine is switched off and connecting that last jump cable clamp causes some serious arcing, its likely the failed battery has shorted out internally. Trying to add more power by running the donor engine risks blowing at least its alternator and potentially a lot more.

So however its counted dont run the donor engine. The risks are too great and the benefits (if any) are minimal.

All these years I've been doing it wrong - Bikes, cars and trucks

 

[ianboydsnr]

A donor bike with a battery that dodgy simply should not be used as a donor. A car battery so weak that it cant boost a tiddly bike battery is unlikely to get the car out of the garage in the first place.

The risks of running the donor are:

• Over charging the weak (rescued) battery, but in the short time its connected not much harm will be done. Anyway the donor charging circuit is voltage controlled so overcharging is unlikely.
• The rescued starter will send voltage spikes and noise into the donor electrical system. During a normal engine start, sensitive stuff is switched out. But in this case, all that sensitive stuff is lined up to get fried. Even leaving the ignition on risks smoking the stereo and maybe the body ECU.
• connecting jump leads to an internally shorted battery can cause enough current surge to damage the donor alternator.

A flat car/bike battery so bad that it's sucking all the charge from the donor would indicate an internal short circuit. If it can be got to run at all, the alternator could be overloaded trying to feed a short circuit.

If the donor engine is switched off and connecting that last jump cable clamp causes some serious arcing, its likely the failed battery has shorted out internally. Trying to add more power by running the donor engine risks blowing at least its alternator and potentially a lot more.

So however its counted dont run the donor engine. The risks are too great and the benefits (if any) are minimal.

That's an interesting statement Dave, can you back it up with facts, you some kind of electrical engineer?