Hilltop Questions
- Thread starter Dino
- Start date
See, how many minutes did it take for the religious police to respond? 
See, how many minutes did it take for the religious police to respond?
I had my twin cam GSA hilltopped a few months ago and it rides much better.
Significant performance improvement and better mpg.
money well spent.
Delboy777
Registered user
Fit a Power Commander and have it set up on a dyno. Then when you sell the bike you can remove it and recoup a lot of your outlay.............simples.
If you must fiddle with the fuelling then a PC set up by a decent dyno shop seems like the most sensible option, if you have any problems then you simply remove it. If you mess with the internal fuel map by re-programming the BMW firmware and you have problems it could get messy.
There was an article in Ride magazine recently, the PC was set up on the importers dyno and they seemed to know what they were doing.
Bendy toy
Registered user
My Power Commander it made a dramatic difference and frankly scared the poo out of me when I first whacked open going down a dual carriageway slip road. There are some big mid range power benefits to be had. The bike suddenly felt like it had 1200cc power to go with the 1200cc weight.
The issue with a PC is extra connectors to play-up and you can't recover the dyno setup costs so overall you won't save much in the long run. It's also in your face visible so you HAVE to declare it and pay the premium.
The issue with a PC is extra connectors to play-up and you can't recover the dyno setup costs so overall you won't save much in the long run. It's also in your face visible so you HAVE to declare it and pay the premium.
J biker
Registered user
Mine will be going to Hilltop in the Spring. Good friend that knows bikes inside out, has raced, and also knows plenty racers cant praise high enough.
Power commanders no good without proper set up and the wiring is very obvious, with added connections to go wrong. Have a look on Youtube at fitting a PC to a GS and see. Not hidden away like inline 4s. Add in extra cost for increase in insurance premium and maybe loose BMW warranty = no brainer IMO.
Power commanders no good without proper set up and the wiring is very obvious, with added connections to go wrong. Have a look on Youtube at fitting a PC to a GS and see. Not hidden away like inline 4s. Add in extra cost for increase in insurance premium and maybe loose BMW warranty = no brainer IMO.
Always the other option, Lambda offset devices BMW AF XIED.
Have run these for 20 K miles.
Plugged a set in to the bike today to test for a friend.
Here is a 90 second extract from the data, I have smoothed the AFR trace to make it clearer, these were at gentle cruise in 6th gear.
If anyone runs Logworks 3 I have loads of data runs for these.
Have run these for 20 K miles.
Plugged a set in to the bike today to test for a friend.
Here is a 90 second extract from the data, I have smoothed the AFR trace to make it clearer, these were at gentle cruise in 6th gear.
If anyone runs Logworks 3 I have loads of data runs for these.
comberjohn
Registered user
Like Bendy, I've actually experienced the before and after difference when using a PC. If you've already tried a PC and found it 'no good' then you're doing it wrong!
I'm sure a Hilltop remap is an excellent choice for some and I know that many on the forum are very happy with it, but I doubt that many of us could tell the difference from a properly set up PC. For me, a Hilltop re map is simply not economic.
Mine hasn't been on a dyno, just uploaded the standard European mapping and the difference in drivability and performance over stock is amazing. May do it sometime, but at the moment, I'm delighted with the result.
If you take a bit of time installing and use plenty of black cable ties, it's not that easy to spot unless you know what you are looking at. Only issue I've had is with damp in the TPS plug but that's cured now. Suspect it's because it's stuck out on the side of the injector and the PC connector is not as good as the original.
I told my insurance company, no change in premium.
And, of course, we always inform them about the change of exhaust, non standard screen, removing the flappy valve, HID lights, etc. don't we?
Unfortunately, my 2010 TC is out of the BMW warranty period some time ago.
I'm sure a Hilltop remap is an excellent choice for some and I know that many on the forum are very happy with it, but I doubt that many of us could tell the difference from a properly set up PC. For me, a Hilltop re map is simply not economic.
Mine hasn't been on a dyno, just uploaded the standard European mapping and the difference in drivability and performance over stock is amazing. May do it sometime, but at the moment, I'm delighted with the result.
If you take a bit of time installing and use plenty of black cable ties, it's not that easy to spot unless you know what you are looking at. Only issue I've had is with damp in the TPS plug but that's cured now. Suspect it's because it's stuck out on the side of the injector and the PC connector is not as good as the original.
I told my insurance company, no change in premium.
And, of course, we always inform them about the change of exhaust, non standard screen, removing the flappy valve, HID lights, etc. don't we?
Unfortunately, my 2010 TC is out of the BMW warranty period some time ago.
I have nothing against PC and have used them on many bikes. A PC 3 in an open loop system works very well..
I used to run a PC5 and autotune on the R1200gs my main issue was disconnecting the lambda sensors and forcing the BMSK into limp mode then correcting it with the PC5 it never seemed totally happy..
I have found the BMW AF XIED`s to be easier to install they are cheaper and no setting up time or cost and so far over 20k miles in 2 years reliable.
But each to there own it is just another option.
I used to run a PC5 and autotune on the R1200gs my main issue was disconnecting the lambda sensors and forcing the BMSK into limp mode then correcting it with the PC5 it never seemed totally happy..
I have found the BMW AF XIED`s to be easier to install they are cheaper and no setting up time or cost and so far over 20k miles in 2 years reliable.
But each to there own it is just another option.
comberjohn
Registered user
I've heard of an AF XIED but know very little about them.
What exactly are they and what do they do? Are they similar to a Booster Plug?
Be interested to hear more about them.
I had a Booster Plug on a K1600GT and then on the GS and still not sure of the benefit, whereas the PC5 difference is instant.
What exactly are they and what do they do? Are they similar to a Booster Plug?
Be interested to hear more about them.
I had a Booster Plug on a K1600GT and then on the GS and still not sure of the benefit, whereas the PC5 difference is instant.
Hi, The AF XEID is nothing like a booster plug.
The booster plug is a resistor which tells the BMSK ( engine management unit) that the air temperature is colder than it is, so it makes the AFR (air fuel ratio) richer.
This will only work in open loop fuelling and it will be adapted out in time by long term fuel trims. To continue to get any benefit from one of these it is best to regularly reset the adaptations.
The AF XEID is ( in my opinion ) the 21st century answer to correcting fuelling issues.
The BMW fuelling system is a brilliantly designed and highly complex system for a road used engine.
The only fly in the ointment is that legislation on emissions mean that it has to run an air fuel ratio (AFR) of just either side of 14.7 to 1 this is the only AFR that the catalytic converter will work at to achieve the emissions.
The AFR is held at 14.7 to 1 by the lambda sensors in the exhaust. if the mixture goes rich or lean because of problems with fuel pressure, air temperature sensor, worn or gummed up injectors, change of exhaust / air filter etc. etc. The BMSK will correct these errors ( by altering the injector pulse width) because the lambda sensor reports back that it is not running at 14.7 to 1.
The AF XIED is a little box ( 2 on a R1200 as there are 2 lambda sensors) that are plugged in line with the lambda sensors they take the input signal from the lambda sensor and alter it ( there are ten settings on the units). They trick the BMSK into thinking it is running at 14.7 to 1 when in fact it is running at 13.8 to 1 or whatever it is set at.
After extensive testing of these I have found that plug and play on setting 7 is ideal.
Nightrider are the manufacturers and Beamer boneyard in the USA are stockists. I have no connection whatsoever with either of these companies.
I stated for a road engine at the start as fuelling a race engine is a totally different ball game.
The booster plug is a resistor which tells the BMSK ( engine management unit) that the air temperature is colder than it is, so it makes the AFR (air fuel ratio) richer.
This will only work in open loop fuelling and it will be adapted out in time by long term fuel trims. To continue to get any benefit from one of these it is best to regularly reset the adaptations.
The AF XEID is ( in my opinion ) the 21st century answer to correcting fuelling issues.
The BMW fuelling system is a brilliantly designed and highly complex system for a road used engine.
The only fly in the ointment is that legislation on emissions mean that it has to run an air fuel ratio (AFR) of just either side of 14.7 to 1 this is the only AFR that the catalytic converter will work at to achieve the emissions.
The AFR is held at 14.7 to 1 by the lambda sensors in the exhaust. if the mixture goes rich or lean because of problems with fuel pressure, air temperature sensor, worn or gummed up injectors, change of exhaust / air filter etc. etc. The BMSK will correct these errors ( by altering the injector pulse width) because the lambda sensor reports back that it is not running at 14.7 to 1.
The AF XIED is a little box ( 2 on a R1200 as there are 2 lambda sensors) that are plugged in line with the lambda sensors they take the input signal from the lambda sensor and alter it ( there are ten settings on the units). They trick the BMSK into thinking it is running at 14.7 to 1 when in fact it is running at 13.8 to 1 or whatever it is set at.
After extensive testing of these I have found that plug and play on setting 7 is ideal.
Nightrider are the manufacturers and Beamer boneyard in the USA are stockists. I have no connection whatsoever with either of these companies.
I stated for a road engine at the start as fuelling a race engine is a totally different ball game.
Should have added that the XIED only works directly on closed loop fuelling which the bike runs in for the majority of the time.
The open loop fuel map is adaptive and learns from the closed loop ( long term fuel trims), so it takes a few tanks of fuel to populate all the cells in the open loop map.
If there is anyone on here with in depth information on BMSK fuelling, I am trying to find out if there is a separate load sensing layer to the open loop map.
The open loop fuel map is adaptive and learns from the closed loop ( long term fuel trims), so it takes a few tanks of fuel to populate all the cells in the open loop map.
If there is anyone on here with in depth information on BMSK fuelling, I am trying to find out if there is a separate load sensing layer to the open loop map.
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