Hilltop Re-map

[Deleted account 211025001]

Well, bored in London yesterday I noticed on here that a place had become free at Hilltop for the WC boys today so a phone call was made and the 1190R was booked in for today.

TBH I've umm'd and arr'd over this for a while but what tipped the scales was the fact I'd fitted a DNA air filter as well as the Wings can. The DNA is quite a free flowing filter and I've always had worries at the back of my mind since fitting.

The whole process took around an hour plus another hour chatting to Geoff who's a real character/nice guy, I could've chatted all day!

The new map is now hard flashed into the firmware so can not be overwritten by a dealer map download, only by Geoff or somebody similarly equipped.

The ride home was a real hoot; the already impeccable fueling is even smoother, there is a lot more mid range grunt and I kept finding myself going faster than I thought as it just needed less revs and my brain's still calibrated to the 'old' engine. I am VERY pleased with the result and really hadn't expected such a difference. The top end increase in power has for now been left undiscovered as the 'old' engine's top end scares the crap out of me as it is..........I'm looking forward to playing with it at some stage though

Fuelling was dangerously lean. Geoff was very surprised as he says KTMs normally run, if anything, rich. When I mentioned the filter all became clear The dip you see in the original graphs was partly emissions set up and partly the DNA filter. If you look at the original air/fuel ratio graph you'll see it nearly hits 15 - apparently holes start appearing in pistons at around 15

So, with no further ado..........

Peak power is up from 123bhp to 138 bhp and torque from 79ft/lb to 90ft/lb.
The torque is instantly noticeable but more so is the smooth and almost flat, linear torque curve

Getting set up:



Before, with dodgy air/fuel:



After with a nice safe air/fuel:



And, my favourite bit, stood in the cab whilst Geoff did a 6th gear flat out run - it made your insides jiggle as the sound reverberated within the cab

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2TFW_Cbu3es" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Andres

 

[RedRick Esq.]

Nice one !
138 BHP will be a hoot particularly with the torque lower down the range !

Front tyres will last longer

 

[stroller]

Your comment regarding leanness is concerning. I've just fitted a DNA filter today! Plus I have a Wings can (with baffle in), so I seem to be in the same situation you were in.
Must admit, when I fitted the filter I had not expected to have to get the bike remapped, although I accept it will give benefits.
Can anyone recommend a reliable tuner in the Bristol area?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Given you have the same set up as me Stroller, I know Geoff will copy maps (mine in this case) onto an ECU if you send it to him - not ideal I know but maybe worth doing?

Andres

 

[stroller]

Given you have the same set up as me Stroller, I know Geoff will copy maps (mine in this case) onto an ECU if you send it to him - not ideal I know but maybe worth doing?

Andres

Thanks, I will give him a call.

 

[Giles]

Nice one Andres! Does it gurgle and pop like feck on the overrun? (might be the decat allowing gasses into the hot can?). I'm glad you took the decision and did it

Front tyres will last longer

Shhhhhhhhh .... I had a spank on the way home tonight - had the front wheel just floating over a rise in the road at 125 ... when yer in the mood the bike is insane .. !

 

[cookie]

I'm hoping the UNI I have is not so free flowing as the DNA, or maybe I should potter up to Leicestershire.

There's loads of 1190s running trouble free with UNI and a can in the US. Do you still have the cat Andrés?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Nice one Andres! Does it gurgle and pop like feck on the overrun? (might be the decat allowing gasses into the hot can?). I'm glad you took the decision and did it

No it doesn't, after your original comments I was really looking forward to that I guess it must be down to you de-catting your bike The air box is noisier now though and I love the sound it makes as it resonates at 4000 rpm

I'm hoping the UNI I have is not so free flowing as the DNA, or maybe I should potter up to Leicestershire.

There's loads of 1190s running trouble free with UNI and a can in the US. Do you still have the cat Andrés?

No, the catt is still there Cookie. Irrespective of the lean running I'm sold on Geoffs work. I took Amanda out today and she commented on how smoother the bike felt at 'town' speeds. Partly, I imagine down to the fact that the suspension is now set up properly but also 'cos it's smoother to ride now at low revs.

Andres

 

[cookie]

i know they cant overwrite the hilltop fuelling map, but is it still possible for KTM dealer to update the bike's firmware?

could KTM still install the optional indicator timer thing for instance?

 

[strod]

Optional indicator timer thing on KTM 1190?

Is that like BMW - automatically switching indicators off after so many seconds elapse or relative to distance travelled?

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

i know they cant overwrite the hilltop fuelling map, but is it still possible for KTM dealer to update the bike's firmware?

could KTM still install the optional indicator timer thing for instance?

Geoff was adamant that it's the 'base firmware' that is rewritten and that no dealer would be able to alter it or even know it was different. The only people that could 'see' it or change it would be back at the factory or somebody like Geoff with the equipment he has. It will not affect a dealer alteration as they do not touch the firmware.

Beyond that it all goes above my head but the bottom line is it can't be altered by any dealer nor stop them updating anything (other than the firmware).

Andres

 

[stroller]

What are the pros & cons of tuning the ECU compared to a Power Commander in terms of cost and effectiveness?
Both will invalidate the KTM warranty presumably and be classed as a "modified bike" by insurance companies I imagine - not too keen on giving them any excuse to add to my premium!

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Optional indicator timer thing on KTM 1190?

Is that like BMW - automatically switching indicators off after so many seconds elapse or relative to distance travelled?

Yup, that's my understanding - I think it's about £30 to have the extra bit of code downloaded onto the ECU

What are the pros & cons of tuning the ECU compared to a Power Commander in terms of cost and effectiveness?
Both will invalidate the KTM warranty presumably and be classed as a "modified bike" by insurance companies I imagine - not too keen on giving them any excuse to add to my premium!

I dunno but if you look at the Hilltop threads in the 1200 section you can bore yourself shitless reading peeps disappearing up their own backsides arguing over it ad infinitum.

Andres

 

[Davy F]

Yet KTM sell the DNA as a Powerpart now with no mention of having the fuelling checked......until I found this : https://www.motopabst.eu/artikel.php?id=52397

I have no idea of anyone in Norn Iron who can check my bike out. Bugger.

 

[DutchBryn]

Both do the same job, although Hilltop (who used to sell/fit PCs) say their software allows more correction points.

Then it's down to hardware. Re-map is invisible. No additional connectors to go wrong. No need to find a space for the PC.

A PC can be sold-on seperately from the bike. You can fiddle with PC settings yourself, if you think it will help. That's my summary.

Either way, money well spent.

What are the pros & cons of tuning the ECU compared to a Power Commander in terms of cost and effectiveness?
Both will invalidate the KTM warranty presumably and be classed as a "modified bike" by insurance companies I imagine - not too keen on giving them any excuse to add to my premium!

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I'm hoping the UNI I have is not so free flowing as the DNA, or maybe I should potter up to Leicestershire.

There's loads of 1190s running trouble free with UNI and a can in the US. .......

Yet KTM sell the DNA as a Powerpart now with no mention of having the fuelling checked......until I found this : https://www.motopabst.eu/artikel.php?id=52397

I have no idea of anyone in Norn Iron who can check my bike out. Bugger.

It's a difficult one isn't it! If you look at Miff's AFR from last weekend his 05 1200GS was running stupidly lean, far, far more than my 1190 and yet he's run it all these years with no issues

On reflection though I'd say it's worth it alone for the improvement in engine response and at the end of the day it's only the cost of a cheap end can.

Davy, you could always, as I suggested to Stroller, send off your ECU?

Andres

 

[cookie]

a day or two ago, i linked this thread to one on advrider

interesting suggestion there that the A/F reading might not be accurate due to the cat still being in place. i have no idea if that is a valid point or not? giles, do you have an A/F readout from when yours was done sans cat and before remap?

 

[Giles]

I don't.

But I have one after de-cat but before re-map;



I had the bike de-catted fairly early on, and the bike then went in for some updates that they'd not been able to do at the 600 mile service (new centre stand, some software stuff .. ). I told them I'd de-catted it (they were absolutely fine and didn't suck their teeth and talk about warranty!) and I told them I was concerned it might run too lean. 'No problem' they said, 'we'll chuck it on the dyno and see' ... And they were happy with the above, and said that the intelligent learning stuff had altered what ever needs to be altered.

I don't have an A/F print from Geoff but he showed me on the screen. It'll be much like Andres' copy; Hilltop brought the A/F mix down a bit to run a bit richer ...


Edit ... just had a look at Andres' A/F - you can see his finished product is running in the 13 whatsy thingies and my standard (but decat) is 14+ ..

 

[Adventure Boy]

Andres I spoke to Geoff yesterday and booked my bike in for the 7th of May as I am on my way on a 1300 mile trip to see my cousin in Rothes Scotland so it will give me a chance to see what its like on the trip afterwards Ill go via the Yorkshire dales through lake district then up to Scotland I was in 2 minds as weather to have it done but after reading this I will, Im also using a Wings Shortie with no baffle but std filter Im glad you can really notice the difference makes it worth the money
Rob

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

You'll notice the difference Rob and you'll defo like it

I ran my Wings last w/e without the baffle just to see..............bloody hell, what a racket on full chat - very nice but couldn't live with it day in day out. I did think it seemed to make a (good) difference to performace though which surprised me!
Anyway, the baffle's back in now

Andres