How reliable is your 1200?

[birdseye]

Any fault which causes the bike to breakdown, no matter how trivial the cause (faulty sidestand cutout switch etc.), is unacceptable, especially on a "premium" priced product IMHO.

Which planet are you from Sven? I've been involved in the supply of materials to the automotive and aerospace industry all my working life and can assure you that breakdowns are a matter of probability. Typically measured in ppm. Usually, the greater the volume and the higher the automation level, the better the product - but even BMW's volumes are fairly low and involve more manual work than ideal.

Having said that, it does look as if BMW did a less than impressive pre production testing exercise. Items such as gearboxes and drives shouldnt fail early as a few have done because they are well established simple technology.

 

[NorthernBoy]

Seems to me that there are a lot of riders who havent got a clue about the mechanics / electronics of any bike so that if something trivial goes wrong (like say a sidestand switch) they troop off to the dealer and moan about reliability.

And why should they not? Should I really expect my BMW bike to be less reliable than my BMW car? There is no reason for bikes to have switches that are likely to fail. Riders should not expect to have to know how to fix the bikes themselves by the roadside.

 

[NorthernBoy]

I'm fed up of boll*cks polls like this. The electronics are so reliable you can forget about them. Just grease all of your plugs and sockets with ACF 50 grease and learn how to fix a puncture.

Why do people post things like this, when it clearly is not true?

My bike started to indicate to the left on its own within 50 miles of me buying it from a dealer. This is a dangerous fault, as it happpened without warning, and built up to being about every 500 metres.

There are plenty of other reports about people (many of whom are still happy with the bike, and want to keep it) having other issues. To say, despite this, that the electronics are so reliable that you can forget about them, is just crap.

Do you think that people are making it up?

 

[IanC]

Should I really expect my BMW bike to be less reliable than my BMW car?

I really am surprised that so many things do go wrong with the 1200 (not sure about other BMW's), when compared with cars which are seem to very rarely go wrong these days. Then again, when I bought a Pan-European in 2001, I took it of the dealers on a Thurs/Fri, ran it in over a weekend and first-serviced it myself, and on the Monday headed off to the Arctic circle for a 5000 mile 2-weeker. The point being, it never even occurred to me that the bike might break down. I kept it for 30,000 miles, and only once did it ever see a dealer, to get the tappets and carbs done, which it didn't really need anyway. A bit of a handful off-road though!

And as for anyone arguing about reliability, surely they should look at the results of this poll?

BTW I also don't have much time for people who are bit "helpless", but then as has been said, should we really need to do roadside repairs? And it's not as if all can be sorted on a bike which is controlled by a computer.

What I'd really like to know is whether the usual problems are still occuring on the latest builds? I could forgive BMW if they've learnt from their mistakes. At the end of the day, apart from damage to their reputation, it must cost them a small fortune to put right, especially with the quantity of 1200's they're shifting, Still, they probably raise the RRP bit to recoup the money!

 

[Pastor Passum]

No Problems

Only 15,000 miles so far (1 year, almost) and no problems of any kind. Love this bike.

Jim

 

[Geordietraveller]

If there were still loads of problems with new 1200s don't you think this place would be full of shock horror stories.

As it is, some BMW riders seem to spend more time complaining than riding anyway! e.g."my indicator is broke - I'm going to sue!"

Maybe all the dodgy 1200s got sent to London - or does it just seem that way

 

[IanC]

Poll seems to say that if you get through the first 5000 miles (or certainly 10,000) you're pretty much in the clear

 

[Gipsy]

There have been lots of similar polls in the past with similar results. I applaud the idea of trying to get hard stats to help decide whether the Gs1200 is as reliable as some peeps would have us believe, or whether in fact there are genuine issues with the bike. I don't find the suggestion that if the cost of repairs is too high, I shouldn't buy one at all helpful and if anything a little insulting. I've absolutely no problem paying for repairs, however I don't want to get locked into a cycle which may prove excessively expensive if there are genuine issues with the build quality. I've had two recalls for computer updates, a new rear brake caliper, fork seals replaced, been rescued from the roadside when my left hand air inlet blew off. My bike is shortly to go in for a new gearbox seal, and clutch replacement, and having seen the thread re ABS recall, my bike is also listed for this remedial work to be done. All on a bike thats done 8500 miles since new in Oct 2004. However I love it despite it's problems so I'm planning to get a new non ABS 1200 later this year, and have a new 2 year warranty. I'm hoping that the build quality/quality control issues are now sorted.
I currently run several other bikes which is just as well, because on several occasions I've not had the BMW available for me to ride.

 

[wilbjr21]

Why do people post things like this, when it clearly is not true?

OK Northenboy give me an example of an electronics failure.

All you hear about are switches causing the ABS not to work - usually as a result of a spill or the grounding out the brake switch. A clutch will also slip if the guard prevents the lever from fully restoring. These are NOT electronics failures.

There had been no reported failures of the CAN Bus (only a pair of wires after all) and very few modules failures that communicate using it seem to have failed.

The electronics used on this machine are extremely robust - even more so than your computer at home; and they don't fail very often if you leave the software alone.

Some people seem to want to go back to a coil and points for the ignition system on the basis that they can fix it - but when did your electronic ignition last have a problem?

The BMW service computer will diagnose a problem by reading fault codes but doesn't fix it. This may sound alarming if you have no faith in modern electronics.

This is why these polls are boll*cks - because the participants usually don't have enough information to form a valued judgement and it just ends up as the usual slagging of the machine

 

[GPRaven]

Home servicing

The only tools I can use are knives and forks.

 

[NorthernBoy]

OK Northenboy give me an example of an electronics failure.

I already have. My bike started sporadically indicating left on its own.

This is part of the electronics systems of the bike.

But, if you choose to believe that the R1200GS is as reliable as previous BMWs, or as current hondas, then by all means, do so.

 

[wilbjr21]

I already have. My bike started sporadically indicating left on its own.

This is part of the electronics systems of the bike.

But, if you choose to believe that the R1200GS is as reliable as previous BMWs, or as current hondas, then by all means, do so.

But did it take the BMW computer to fix it? and you don't state what the fault was - the switch or the unit. While not wishing to underplay your frustration, a faulty indicator won't stop you in your tracks - which is what this thread is supposed to be about.

It's a pity that you quote Honda to me. The ST1300 is a current Honda and mine had a fault - from new - that seemed unfixable. EFI light came on after 10 mins at 6500 rpm. In France and with no help from Honda Assistance at all (another point in BMWs favour). Back in the UK my dealer - a good one - couldn't fix it. Give me a BMW anyday.

An example of the boll*cks talked is a previous thread - in the same vein as this one - that was entitled "Brake Failure - (sort of)". The bloke fell off and twisted the hand guard then failed to read the warning lights on startup. How can this be any form of brake failure?

My servos didn't come on in Bosnia (I am confident to go off the beaten track) but it was my own fault as I had displaced the rear brake switch on a surprising sharp and bumpy right hander. After stopping for fuel and moving off I didn't notice the indication. Now if you want to criticise the ABS warning that's a different matter - maybe a tone of some sort as well as a light.

I think it should also be borne in mind that Simon Pavey said that the GS1200 had been the cheapest bike to run over the season on the Offroad Skills course. To my mind cheap to run also means reliable.

 

[IanC]

I think it should also be borne in mind that Simon Pavey said that the GS1200 had been the cheapest bike to run over the season on the Offroad Skills course.

I've been with Simon last spring on the Level 1, and 2 (where someone called Mr Boorman was in my group), riding the 1200 both times. No doubt at all the bikes were really abused! Problems included broken rocker covers, and a recurring problem where the gear-lever was bashed causing the selector fork to come off the shaft. They seemed to be slowly working through all the 1200's, removing the gearbox or whatever to re-weld the fork to the shaft. Sounded like a pretty labour-intensive job to fix. However, both of these problems are crash damage. The other problem that seemed to happen with regularity was brake switches (front and back) causing problems, I think with disabling the ABS (why they had ABS bikes, I'm not sure - maybe before non-ABS was available?). However these were easily fixed "in the field", and I certainly didn't see or hear of any bikes actually not starting for undiagnosed reasons, so I guess that's some testament to their reliability, particularly to the electronics side.

One thing I don'y know, with all the 1200's they have to keep running, is whether they actually have a diagnostic computer in their unit? I don't recall seeing one. If they can keep their bikes running without one, that's very encouraging. Those bikes get more abuse in a month than most get in a lifetime.

 

[wilbjr21]

IanC.

I think we have a close agreement here. I was on the first and last course last year and Mr. B was also on the last course in an Instructor's role (he can ride a bike OK). I asked Simon about the reliability and he proferred the reply I quoted. I didn't see a diagnostic computer either and don't believe they have one.

My 1200 wouldn't start on the last day of the second course due to the starter relay contacts corroding (hence my statement about ACF 50 grease on the connections). As you say well abused machines but still reliable.

I thought that this was just going to develop into another BMW bashing poll but I see that you are genuine so I withdraw the remark about " boll*cks poll"

 

[IanC]

Thank-you!

The reason for my starting the poll was a genuine attempt to cut through the boll*cks by collecting some hard evidence one way or the other, rather than letting bad news overshadow the good (or vice versa). I would have thought people with problems would be just as keen to cast a vote as people with none. My reasons for wanting to know are genuine, in that I am serious in thinking of taking my GSA a bit further afield than Europe.

I actually feel happier about this now - it seems that the electronics ARE reliable (although perhaps some teething problems early in the bikes' life?), and I'm hopeful that BMW have now got the usual mechanical ones sorted, and that problems were more with early builds (like my May '04).

Here is a pic of Jonty Edmunds sticking on a new Rocker cover, Charley on the left, and myself looking on (furthest away) (not my photography, but I doubt the chap who sent it to me will mind)! Not a computer in sight:

 

[NorthernBoy]

But did it take the BMW computer to fix it? and you don't state what the fault was - the switch or the unit. While not wishing to underplay your frustration, a faulty indicator won't stop you in your tracks - which is what this thread is supposed to be about..

Yes it did. There is no way that I could safely ride if the bike was indicating left every few hundred metres. It was leading people to pull out of side roads in front of me every time it happened. On the first occasion, I limped to a motorway, and tiptoed to my destination. The next time, it was in Ventral London, and I had to have the bike recovered, be without it for ten days, and then be told that they could not deliver it back to me.

Anything that means that the bike cannot be safely ridden, and has to be taken back to BMW in a van is a fault that can be put down as an example of the bike letting you down.

 

[wilbjr21]

Sorry NorthernBoy your overstating your case. Take the bulbs out and use your arms (mirrors and neck as well of course).

IanC - now Jonty can ride a bike!!

 

[NorthernBoy]

Sorry NorthernBoy your overstating your case. Take the bulbs out and use your arms (mirrors and neck as well of course).

IanC - now Jonty can ride a bike!!

Oh yes, that counts as "reliable".

I could get by just fine without a front brake, too, if I just go slowly enough.

And heck, who needs wheels, I can just drag the bike behind me on a rope.

It is truly stunning that some people are so blinkered that they will pretend that things going wrong are not reallly going wrong.

And the fact that there is no tool in the tool kit that allows me to do what you sugggest? Well, I should have made one by removing some bones from my fingers and sharpening them on the road, I suppose.

 

[wilbjr21]

Oh yes, that counts as "reliable".

I could get by just fine without a front brake, too, if I just go slowly enough.

And heck, who needs wheels, I can just drag the bike behind me on a rope.

It is truly stunning that some people are so blinkered that they will pretend that things going wrong are not reallly going wrong.

And the fact that there is no tool in the tool kit that allows me to do what you sugggest? Well, I should have made one by removing some bones from my fingers and sharpening them on the road, I suppose.

You seem to be the sort of person that I was afraid would be attracted to this poll. You've completely missed the point.

Everything from you seems to have the "safety" angle used to try (unsuccessfully) to overstate your indicator failure.

Did you really have your bike recovered because of this?

Your boring me now - as pork cannot be educated. Feel free to have the last word

 

[NorthernBoy]

Deleted, simply no point. None so blind...