HPN or Richie Moore?

[Rob Farmer]

Richie kindly agreed to undertake the work on the bike. Once I get some parts back I'll start a tear-down and build thread. I'm going to model it on the following....

with the exception of it being a monoshock...because Proff said they are better.

Anyone know where to find these exhausts?

Psyco made his own. I think there's a thread on here somewhere.

 

[Rob Farmer]

anyone put moorespeed pistons onto a bike with the smaller R80 carbs?

how do they feel?

am assuming that the R80 heads need work to deal with the pistons that are conceived for the R100, basically leaving the carbs as the outstanding variable

Richie is machining r80 heads to fit 1000cc bikes. I'm sure he said the later heads with 32 carbs were his preferred starting point as there's more meat on them for him to work with on the inlet port. I'd ask him yourself though as I'm bound to have got it wrong

 

[Kenny]

anyone put moorespeed pistons onto a bike with the smaller R80 carbs?

how do they feel?

am assuming that the R80 heads need work to deal with the pistons that are conceived for the R100, basically leaving the carbs as the outstanding variable

I know you can fit standard 1000cc pistons/barrels and retain R80 carb/settings ( done it twice now )

 

[Canuck]

anyone put moorespeed pistons onto a bike with the smaller R80 carbs?

how do they feel?

am assuming that the R80 heads need work to deal with the pistons that are conceived for the R100, basically leaving the carbs as the outstanding variable

Richie is machining r80 heads to fit 1000cc bikes. I'm sure he said the later heads with 32 carbs were his preferred starting point as there's more meat on them for him to work with on the inlet port. I'd ask him yourself though as I'm bound to have got it wrong

Richie is machining my r80 cylinders to fit his pistons, rebuilt the heads with the larger valve stuff (if i knew what it was id have done it myself to pardon the inaccurate use of terms here) and told me categorically to ditch the 32mm bings and buy the 40mm ones. So i now have three spare pairs of 32 mm carbs... Not including the ones already on the bikes. If you want to try a pair Ras let me know.

 

[pete.keys]

Richie is machining r80 heads to fit 1000cc bikes. I'm sure he said the later heads with 32 carbs were his preferred starting point as there's more meat on them for him to work with on the inlet port. I'd ask him yourself though as I'm bound to have got it wrong

I suggested this to Richie as it was Andrew Sexton's preferred route but Richie said to go for the standard head - with his bigger valves

 

[Rob Farmer]

I didn't word that too well. I meant to say - the 32mm heads for machining out. Thinking about it that's still wrong though. It was the later paralever heads because they had more meat on them for fitting larger valves and I think a better inlet port.

Richie fitted 2mm larger valves to a pair if heads for me, they were early 80's heads, if they had been later heads they could have been fitted with 4mm larger valves and ported to make the most of them.

I've got to be honest. For normal riding I think the 32mm carbs are much better. Much cleaner running and give better mid range. It you want performance though..

 

[Canuck]

I've got to be honest. For normal riding I think the 32mm carbs are much better. Much cleaner running and give better mid range. It you want performance though..

I'm after useable torque...not high speed performance. Ill try both and see what happens...but i will only be able to use by backside dyno! . Ive tried to buy more bits from Richie (ie carb mods etc) but he has told me that for my intended use it is not worth it. I wonder why then some people prefer 32 and others 40 mm bings? Surely i should listen to the man who is building my engine no? Please chime in with any info...

 

[Rob Farmer]

If your having your heads done by Richie then he'll be working with carb sizes in mind. You really need to go with his suggestions.

 

[Ras Thurlo]

I've got to be honest. For normal riding I think the 32mm carbs are much better. Much cleaner running and give better mid range. It you want performance though..

can your carb choice be matter of dialling in a target sweet spot in the rev range?

Richie.....told me categorically to ditch the 32mm bings and buy the 40mm ones.

does imply little is there a overall tradeoff between (torque) performance and carb size - or just more simply that the pistons work with the heads which want a certain carb

 

[Flipfly]

I had always wondered about doing an r1100 rear end... I didn't realize about the off-set - that's really put me off the idea.

I wonder how HPN do it?

By the look on the other threads, they use the 1100 hub with a standard centre spoke excel rim to get the offset needed.

 

[Ras Thurlo]

By the look on the other threads, they use the 1100 hub with a standard centre spoke excel rim to get the offset needed.

I had looked into this issue because the offset is always mentioned as a problem for 1100 paralever conversions.

from what I understood the way to deal with the general paralever offset to the left, is to offset the rim to the right as mentioned here and to play with slight engine movement to the right.

The combination of these two factors will result in approx the same end total offset that you would get with an extended mono+wheel offset to the left for wider (140) tyre.

So in effects you ballpark end up with a similar total offset whether you go for the 1100 para or a mono+wide tyre.

 

[DustDevil]

Just my attempt to be kicking some life back into an older thread

Why fitting a 1150GS or 1100GS swing-arm at great expense?

Just because it is a damn site stronger, better performing and has many other advantages!

The start is normally the front. If you want to fit a taller, better performing front end on your GS you need to also find a way make the rear taller and the simplest way is to extend the swing-arm.
Total length from center of swing-arm pivot point to wheel/hub/Final drive;
R80/100GS - 450 mm
R1150GS - 505 mm
R1100GS - 515 mm

The placement of the bottom shock mounting point so far back on the original R80/100 para-lever created some problems with the shock durability and performance. (Mine broke the mounting on the diff)
BMW had to increase the thickness of the rear shock shaft to help reduce stress. When you look at the angle on which this shock have to operate it becomes clear that the shock moves up and down more than in and out. This places a lot of diagonal strain on the shock shaft causing it to wear excessively and it can even break. It also interferes with the performance of the rear shock.

The arrangement for fitting the centrally mounted 1100/50 swing-arm makes for a lot more secure mounting and the forces of the rear wheel travel goes directly up into the shock shaft.

 

[DustDevil]

A mono-lever frame can not be used for this modification because the frame design was revised for the para-lever models, allowing for more space for the bigger aluminum swing-arm.

The mono-lever frame from the rear;


The para-lever frame from the rear, it is clear the two horizontal tubes above and below the swing'arm position has been changed to make more space;

 

[DustDevil]

Before attempting to make this mod in your garage at home just consider the next points;
-The motor swing diagonally in the frame. HPN provides a set of spacers allowing this to be done. (look at the above image and you can see the fat spacer on the left and the almost washer size one on the right.)
-The drive-shaft is modified at the factory for HPN. I would recommend buying both the adapter, drive shaft and adapter cover/boot assembly from HPN.
-If using your standard R80/100 diff you need the pinion shaft modified to allow the 1100/50 drife shaft to clip on.

Wheel offset is not a problem when using the R80/100 final drive and you can use your standard rear wheel without hassles. In saying this there is a wheel offset on the standard GS models and when fitting wider wheels like the 140 Desert the rear rim offset is even increased with 8mm more.
I have done thousands of K's on my HPN PD model with this offset and can truly say there is no difference in the handling or steering except at crawling speeds when you might find the bike falling into the turn to one side where it needs some steering towards the other(tight turning on a skills coarse or similar kind of very slow technical riding).

 

[bernardofeio]

what is the purpose of swinging diagonally the motor in the frame?

and btw what should be the correct amount of spacers LR and RH (rear and front)?

thks

 

[DustDevil]

what is the purpose of swinging diagonally the motor in the frame?

and btw what should be the correct amount of spacers LR and RH (rear and front)?

thks

Changing the engine position must have to do with clearance of the drive shaft inside the swing-arm.

VL (Front left) - 11mm
HL (Rear Left) - 9.1mm
VR (Front Right) - 3.5mm
HR (Rear Right) - 2.45mm

These were marked in German. VL -vorne links etc.

 

[DustDevil]

I'm after useable torque...not high speed performance. Ill try both and see what happens...but i will only be able to use by backside dyno! . Ive tried to buy more bits from Richie (ie carb mods etc) but he has told me that for my intended use it is not worth it. I wonder why then some people prefer 32 and others 40 mm bings? Surely i should listen to the man who is building my engine no? Please chime in with any info...

I can agree with Richie on this one; reducing the valve and carb size will accelerate the flow of air through the compression chamber at lower revs, improving fuel burning and increasing the usable torque.
There is a limit to how much the airflow can be increased and still get a performance improvement due to the smaller port the air has to flow through so as the motor accelerates there will eventually be a drop off of this extra power and the motor will feel less lively at higher revs. Increasing the port sizes will allow more airflow but at lower RPM's it will be slower causing poorer burning and reducing bottom end torque.

For bottom end torque choose the 32mm Bing carbs and use the 40mm if you want top end speed.

 

[bernardofeio]

Changing the engine position must have to do with clearance of the drive shaft inside the swing-arm.

VL (Front left) - 11mm
HL (Rear Left) - 9.1mm
VR (Front Right) - 3.5mm
HR (Rear Right) - 2.45mm

These were marked in German. VL -vorne links etc.

thks

these dimentions are the std or the hpn solution?

 

[peepingtom]

thks

these dimentions are the std or the hpn solution?

hi bernard i cant pm you about your tank ? can you pm me

 

[DustDevil]

thks

these dimentions are the std or the hpn solution?

I measured the ones on the frame in the picture above just before assembling the motor and they were supplied by HPN yes.