Is the non-ABS 1200GS a better option

[Sergeant Pluck]

Come on then, how many people on this site have had servo failures whilst on the move, that have ended with residual braking only.

I have had this twice, both times the warning lights, fail to safe systems worked perfectly, residual braking, although limited, got me home with no real dramas (certainly better brakes than many old brit bikes/ harleys i used to ride)

First problem was due to a lump of mud from my boot fouling the rear brake switch. I was new to the bike and would now know to check both switches for operation.

Second problem was an intermittant warning light problem that was eventually fixed with a replacement ABS unit.

The new 1200 I've had for 2 weeks now also has ABS/ servo, despite any past problems I've had, I feel the bikes braking systems are adequate (well, the front brake/combined brakes are great, the back on its own is crap)

Regards Shep

Aw my gawd - this is exactly what I find frightening - and is why I personally would not buy a 12 with ABS. An iddle bit of mud?!! FFS... This EXPENSIVE motorcycle is meant to be rufty-toughty, go anywhere, built like a brick shithouse etc etc..... Maybe it's just me but I think that braking systems should be totally infallable.

 

[araspitfire]

Maybe it's just me but I think that braking systems should be totally infallable.

I think this makes the point of the guys who dissrespect those that have an axe to grind on the ABS subject just fine...

Picture yourself walking down a steep driveway... picture the rubber heel of your boot coming off and you doing a prat fall...

That that is just a boot. The simplest braking system has dozens of failure points..

there is no such thing as totally infallable.

And the question for those of us (including me) who are trying to decide weather the R12GS's ABS system is a good decision or not... don't really need out of perspective attitudes on the subject... really...

FWIW (I know... nothing)... I stopped reading DR ABS's thread as un-informative a couple weeks ago...

Al... (who still hasn't decided... but figures the argument that ABS can save your life will outweigh the perception that the added cost and chance of failure the one time I may need it (I ride conservatively))

 

[Sergeant Pluck]

I don't really know why I'm getting involved in argument, I don't own a 12, I don't have ABS, I accept there is no correct answer to the ABS question - in fact I couldn't really give a toss!! But I've started now... so

I think this makes the point of the guys who dissrespect those that have an axe to grind on the ABS subject just fine...

Picture yourself walking down a steep driveway... picture the rubber heel of your boot coming off and you doing a prat fall...

That that is just a boot. The simplest braking system has dozens of failure points..

there is no such thing as totally infallable.

And the question for those of us (including me) who are trying to decide weather the R12GS's ABS system is a good decision or not... don't really need out of perspective attitudes on the subject... really...

FWIW (I know... nothing)... I stopped reading DR ABS's thread as un-informative a couple weeks ago.

OK - so maybe 'infallable' is too strong, but;

The simplest braking system does not have dozens of failure points - the pots can seize, braking material can come off the pad backing plate, a hose can become punctured, maybe the caliper bolts can shear off, etc. But on the whole its a tried and tested, and pretty reliable system.

All this things can happen to an ABS equipped bike too. But then add on top of that the tons of other little things that go to make up BM's ABS system, particularly the electronics, and suddenly 'infallable' seems like a distant concept. This seems to be born out by a number of reported failures on this site - even if you disregard the more dogmatic rants by Dr. ABS etc.

I personally have never liked ABS on bikes - just because I don't - but I like it even less when I read things like the post a couple up from this one. I'm not trying to big up Dr. ABS (I don't follow his posts either) or say that ALL BMW ABS brakes are sh*te and WILL fail, or anything like that - all I'm saying is for me personally - I'd rather leave well alone.... You pays yer money and takes yer choice - but blind faith in BM just because the it is BM and the bike was expensive - is a mistake.

Where's Luckylucian? See what you've done?!!!

 

[Phil Clarke]

Don't get ABS and save 800 quid - simple

So if you haven't got ABS does that mean you also don't have a servo? My non abs 1200 has similar braking power to the ABS demo bike I tried. The demo bike had annoying delay between hitting the brake and the brake biting.

 

[araspitfire]

Don't get ABS and save 800 quid - simple

So if you haven't got ABS does that mean you also don't have a servo? My non abs 1200 has similar braking power to the ABS demo bike I tried. The demo bike had annoying delay between hitting the brake and the brake biting.

This is a question that was (still is?) outstanding with me... I've only ridden an ABS equiped r12GS for an hour an a half. I was wondering what the difference in lever pull pressure for a panic stop is between the two options?? Also the difference in lever pull pressure for normal stopping...

I agree that simpler systems are prefered if added complexity doesn't bring enough advantage to make it worth the added risk of failure. My BMW dealer (of course) thinks that the GS is "flighty" enough that having ABS is important to him (more likely to his kids college fund ...

I owned an enduro 350 Honda years ago and never felt that I was going to lock it up and fall down...

Unfortunately "saving 800 quid" would sound pretty lame while riding down the motorway, towards those big lorry tires, on the slippery metal and plastic bits.... but only for a few seconds...

Al... (who sounds like he's confused because he is... )

 

[Shep]

Aw my gawd - this is exactly what I find frightening - and is why I personally would not buy a 12 with ABS. An iddle bit of mud?!! FFS... This EXPENSIVE motorcycle is meant to be rufty-toughty, go anywhere, built like a brick shithouse etc etc..... Maybe it's just me but I think that braking systems should be totally infallable.

Hi there

Why are you frightened about something that will never ever affect you, i gave an accurate history of the brakes on my motorcycle, I tried not to be biased in the reporting of any problems,

I feel I purchased the bike with an ABS/Servo system with safety systems in place to cover any eventuality. which they have.

Unlike a Ducati monster I had which suffered a total front brake failiure (master cylinder seal failure), with no warning at all, and a Honda VFR on which i could cook the brakes with ease (enough to leave them useless) when two up, to the extent they needed bi-annual fluid changes. Honda expressed concern but nothing else. Both bikes were un modified & well within warrantee period.

If you dont like it, dont buy it!

Get over it

Shep

 

[Sergeant Pluck]

I keep saying that I personally don't want ABS as, amongst other things, the thought of failure frightens me personally, so I have not got it, and won't have it, and therefore have nothing to get over. Like I said, I couldn't really give a toss! By the same token, I'm perfectly happy that other people weigh up same pros and cons that I have, without blindly assuming that because it's a BM it won't brake (scuse pun!), and come to a different conclusion - fine. Good. Excellent in fact! Vive la difference...!

 

[cookie]

Come on then, how many people on this site have had servo failures whilst on the move, that have ended with residual braking only.

I have had this twice, both times the warning lights, fail to safe systems worked perfectly, residual braking, although limited, got me home with no real dramas (certainly better brakes than many old brit bikes/ harleys i used to ride)

First problem was due to a lump of mud from my boot fouling the rear brake switch. I was new to the bike and would now know to check both switches for operation.

Second problem was an intermittant warning light problem that was eventually fixed with a replacement ABS unit.

The new 1200 I've had for 2 weeks now also has ABS/ servo, despite any past problems I've had, I feel the bikes braking systems are adequate (well, the front brake/combined brakes are great, the back on its own is crap)

Regards Shep

and then we could ask how many of us have ever had an ABS failure in their car

glad the warning lights worked ok though

 

[Shep]

It would also be interesting to see how many indicated brake failiures were in the first few weeks of ownership, whilst getting used to the (unusual ) start up proceedure.

Shep

 

[Number 6]

Don't get ABS and save 800 quid - simple

So if you haven't got ABS does that mean you also don't have a servo?

On a 1200 (and the later 1150) yes, if it has ABS then it also has the servo. If it doesn't have ABS, then it doesn't have a servo. Earlier 1150s had ABS but without the servo.

 

[GSmonkey]

18k miles so far, number of times ABS used in anger 2, number of failures 0. Seems a good enough stat to me.

That said, the use of the ABS was though lazyness / danger compensation.