What you mean "firmware" ? If you want the bin file from R1200C, i have it, i can send you via email. Tell me please what model of VW use motronic 1.3 ? I have full databank of VW and BMW, i want take a look at these bin files..
JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip
- Thread starter uncle dick
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What you mean "firmware" ? If you want the bin file from R1200C, i have it, i can send you via email. Tell me please what model of VW use motronic 1.3 ? I have full databank of VW and BMW, i want take a look at these bin files..
I make the same function at maps to a BMW R1150GS. What routine did you think "block" the fuel (at close loop) after 300 miles ?
There is no correction at AFR for many miles..
The first impression on a quick observation there is an "error" in the ECU, is not a simple cuting to fuel but a blocking to the overall functioning of the ECU.
Must take out for 30 sec and refit the fuse 5.
I also think that this happens in some Isolated ecu. I will look in detail on Monday and will post info.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
I think the question you're asking is, why didn't the R1150GS adapt back to lambda=1? Without an LC-1 or something like it I can't say for sure.
My guess is that you have done one of a few things:
1) a bad checksum for your EPROM is keeping the Motronic in limp mode. Do you recalculate the checksum for the chip each time you make a change?
2) when you write data into the area you think of as lambda maps, you are writing into an Oil Temp table (or some other constants) and the bike is staying in open loop.
You need to remove fuse 5 for 5 minutes to be sure the Motronic resets. I made some tests at 15 sec, 30 sec, 1 min, 2 min and 5 min. The Motronic was only reset at 5 minutes.
Thanks Roger.
Checksum is ok, there is no immo for this function so there is not "check sum". At new ECU, when the checsum is incorrect, the engine just no start, at motronic, magneti mareli and old bosh (1990-2003) with eprom there is no problem for checksums.
I dont tuch oil temp table, that i check by the oil temp at panel, it is ok, i m sure for that.
I think is an error on motronic 2.4 :
"2341 Lambda sensor control limit" or "2342 Lambda sensor value is invalid".
One solution is to disable the function of lambda (at point map value 0: disable lambda), what is your opinion;
Checksum is ok, there is no immo for this function so there is not "check sum". At new ECU, when the checsum is incorrect, the engine just no start, at motronic, magneti mareli and old bosh (1990-2003) with eprom there is no problem for checksums.
I dont tuch oil temp table, that i check by the oil temp at panel, it is ok, i m sure for that.
I think is an error on motronic 2.4 :
"2341 Lambda sensor control limit" or "2342 Lambda sensor value is invalid".
One solution is to disable the function of lambda (at point map value 0: disable lambda), what is your opinion;
Butchpro
Registered user
I am sorry, I was wrong. VW used Motronic 1.2.3 with INTEL/Siemens B58371 chip. Of course Motronic 1.3 is BMW's.
Bin files from both were successfully disassembled by independent persons. At least they say it. It is very interesting project "motroniconline" for BMW's car Motronics. Only in Russian, but google translate is enough to understand the possibilities and ideas.
Thanks for R1200C bin file. I already read it. I bought the new programmer and wanted to try it. By the way, as I found today R1200C Motronic based on INTEL/Infineon B58466 chip, not Siemens as I thougth early. I should understand what this chip is it and is it possible to disassemble its bin by IDA.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
The control limit failure occurs when the Motronic is in Closed Loop and is trying to add or subtract fuel to get the Lambda sensor to change state: either from Rich to Lean, (e.g. 800 mV to 100 mV) or Lean to Rich (e.g. 100 mV to 800 mV). It increases or decreases all the fuel it is allowed to (about 20%), and then gives the error.
John, Are you saying there is ONE spot on the map that allows you to enable or disable Closed Loop? (If there is such a location, do you think it has a software timer on it so that it reverts to Closed Loop after a time--some number of minutes?)
My comment to that is that without Closed Loop, the motorcycle can't adjust to aging of the engine or its sensors. It also can't adjust to straight gasoline vs gasoline with 10% ethanol. The Motronic learns about the ethanol fuel through the O2 sensor and then adjusts fueling everywhere through Adaptation.
I think you would be much better off trying to find out why this problem happened than just setting the Closed Loop = 0.
RB
Have you any link for this project ?
For R1200C, if you need any help for type of ECU or eprom, send me a pm, i have many info
Yes Roger, there is one spot in maps for enable/disable lambda, that is the simple solution, but there is not a software timer. There is routine, when the ECU takes different signal from lambda, put a value in to a spot of map for error. The strange in this routine is that is not activated after driving a few meters but after many many miles!!
After this function the ECU confuse and not work fine, that's it. There is no routine to cut of or adds at long time, it is just a confuse. The cutting or adding fuel happening at the same time and simply add or subtract depending on the values at open loop until the AFR is as you wish at all revs. That way of remaping is the same at all old ECU (like magneti marreli, bosch MP from peugeot/citroen, fiat and more any car's. After remaping the AFR is the same for ever time, but at few ECU of R1150 holding the "error" in the memory and block the operation after many miles, many days. That is my thinks about this problem, what you say about this think?
I hope you understand my english..
Butchpro
Registered user
http://motroniconline.ru
Works with 1.3, 3.1, 3.3 and 3.3.1 Motronics.
It is adapter installed instead of EPROM plus diagnostic software plus wideband lambda used by this software. Wideband lamba used only at diagnostic stage (during it lambda feedback is disabled). After maps upgrading narrowband sensor used.
The interesting thing that through this adapter it is possible to read the RAM and get the current values of sensors and other data (may be some "adaptation variables" also). Autor wrote that there are a lot of interesting in RAM. This information from forum which is hard to translate by google due to slang.
And also, John, are you sure about checksum?
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Have you any link for this project ?
For R1200C, if you need any help for type of ECU or eprom, send me a pm, i have many info
Yes Roger, there is one spot in maps for enable/disable lambda, that is the simple solution, but there is not a software timer. There is routine, when the ECU takes different signal from lambda, put a value in to a spot of map for error. The strange in this routine is that is not activated after driving a few meters but after many many miles!!
After this function the ECU confuse and not work fine, that's it. There is no routine to cut of or adds at long time, it is just a confuse. The cutting or adding fuel happening at the same time and simply add or subtract depending on the values at open loop until the AFR is as you wish at all revs. That way of remaping is the same at all old ECU (like magneti marreli, bosch MP from peugeot/citroen, fiat and more any car's. After remaping the AFR is the same for ever time, but at few ECU of R1150 holding the "error" in the memory and block the operation after many miles, many days. That is my thinks about this problem, what you say about this think?
I hope you understand my english..
It is hard for me to say why it is happening because we don't know for sure what parts of th r1150 map you are writing but here's what it sounds like:
A change you made is causing the lambda control limit to be exceeded but after a lot of riding. This suggests to me that it is a change at higher rpm and/or wider throttle angle.
When the limit is exceeded, the Motronic stops trying to run Closed Loop and sets the bit you mentioned. Once the error is logged and the bit is set, the Motronic runs a confused looking fueling pattern--sometimes 5% more and sometimes 5% less and many values in between. This is a limp home fueling pattern.
You need to figure out which of your changes is causing the lambda control range to be exceeded. How about trying timing changes only, make sure no errors. Then add fuel map changes to the timing changes but only make fuel changes in the top half of the fuel map (Open Loop area).
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Very neat web site, thanks.
Thanks for link, i read all similar theads yesterday, i watch videos... This tool can work only to 1.3, 3,1 3.3 motronic. Also the easy function by this tool, is only that no needed to replace the "one writing" eprom for each remaping. I have no problem for this, when i do "remaping" to old ECU i use a 27SF512 eeprom (this is read and write memory like a hard disk). Also i like to "see" the results of remmaping by external tools (wideband and knock sensor) i dont like to see at windows by comuters, maybe there are some wrongs by missing of software.
After finish the total remapping, i write the final maps (bin file) to a standard eprom.
Also i believe that there is still the same problem (adapt) at motronics, by using this tool, they gives few maps ( injection and timing advance maps), there are a lot of many others special maps in to the stock chip..
I think that now we are in agreement, these thoughts that I think is the solution.
Also (additional) i believe that there is a constant value in a map by comparing the signal received from the lambda (at close loop) or compating the AFR at close loop (by constant value).
That i can tell for sure that there is a (routine-map) in to newest ECU, like BMSK BMSKP (R1200GS), comparing the real AFR at close loop, so you can change it as you wish. I made many many remaping at R1200GS-RT for many years, i never had any problem, the AFR change at close loop at any results i want. Note that at R1200GS there is a narrow band like the old BMW bikes.
What you observe behavior when changing the signal of lambda (by LC-1) too much for richer AFR (at close loop) ?
Did you see only a too much cutting of fuel at open loop or an "error" to adapt or a repeated sequential cutting of fuel proportional to the miles you drive the bike ?
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
There are no signs in the measured output of the BMSK-fueled bikes that they can shift lambda. I have many 10s of hours of riding data and they always tune to lambda = 1. (The normal crossover threshold of a narrowband sensor is about 450 mV. Even if you increase to 650 mV you get only a tiny shift in AFR.) They need to keep lambda = 1 for the catalytic converter.
I have shifted lambda by 12% in both directions with no error. I found the error band by accident while making measurements of closed loop adaptation. In the middle of Closed Loop I switched out the O2 sensor and saw the 20% runaway.
My guess is that you didn't move fuel too much but rather, you created a condition where the closed loop routine for "lost" are ran to one of the limits.
When you shifted lambda to 12 %, did you see much cutting of fuell at open loop ? Did you see anything else changes at AFR after driving 200-300 miles ?
What exactly "error" did you see ? Please dont show charts, just tell me.
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
Not sure what you're asking in the first question. Could you try it again?
The error I saw was: a) on a chart the AFR ramped up 20%. B) The error was Lambda Sensor control Limit.
Did you see by error control limit at ECU When you shifted lambda to 12 %, an adapt to much more lean fuell, or anything problem wich must to stop the shifted lambda to much 12 %
Butchpro
Registered user
John, I really do not understand why you stand on point that it is possible to control narrowband sensor. It specially designed with threshold characteristic for excellent determination only one point.
Sent you email about other matters
Sent you email about other matters
Roger 04 RT
Registered user
I did not see an error control limit at 12% in either the rich or lean direction. Since there is a 20% limit it seems, my 12% shift plus 4% more for "ethanol 10%" gets me to 16% with 4% margin. I only ride with a 6-8% shift in real riding. I know an 1150RT rider who rides regularly with a 12% shift.
John, I really do not understand why you stand on point that it is possible to control narrowband sensor. It specially designed with threshold characteristic for excellent determination only one point.
Sent you email about other matters
Andrey your bin file is ready, i send it to your e-mail. Try and let know us. I make a new mod at maps, so i think that you will not have the problem with adapt.
Note also too, that your bin file is from R1200CL, not from old R1200C. That means, that is much better.
What about weather in Moscow is still summer or get too cold for driving the bike ?
Butchpro
Registered user
Thank you, John. I will flash it today everning, and install and try tomorrow .
John, Roger, what is your opinion is about ideal value of lambda sensor from power point of view? 2, 5, 10 percent richer then 14.7:1?
John, Roger, what is your opinion is about ideal value of lambda sensor from power point of view? 2, 5, 10 percent richer then 14.7:1?
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