JohnGS1100 Tuning Chip

Thanks Buddy thats what i was trying to find out,i posted on the other thread ref your problem with a bad chip,i was interested to know if you just found the chip dodgy in your bike or if it was just a bad one and if now your bike was running good with it...:beerjug:

Responded. Word of advice really, make sure you have done the basics before you install the chip...gapped the rockers, balanced the throttle etc etc..
I didnt do that (depsite knowing better) and now its a progressive trail of resetting to get the bike right again and eliminate the pinking and backfire.

Because of the adaption of the fuelling system it seems to mask drift in the mechanical aspects, so its only once you reset all that data that it becomes aparant that the bike is running shite. Plus if like me you had forgotten what a nice running boxer feels like you can be none the wiser of the throttle balance drift.
 
Responded. Word of advice really, make sure you have done the basics before you install the chip...gapped the rockers, balanced the throttle etc etc..
I didnt do that (depsite knowing better) and now its a progressive trail of resetting to get the bike right again and eliminate the pinking and backfire.

Because of the adaption of the fuelling system it seems to mask drift in the mechanical aspects, so its only once you reset all that data that it becomes aparant that the bike is running shite. Plus if like me you had forgotten what a nice running boxer feels like you can be none the wiser of the throttle balance drift.

Iv just had a big service done by Steptoe,so thats why i figured it was a good time to do these mods,its been running with a Y piece and the hills map for sometime, and iv just got the bike got steppers to set it up so this week when i get all the parts il fit the K&N, the chip, and the Remus then see how it performs,it will certainly be more free flowing,il reseal the exhaust joints to try to eliminate backfiring and see how the bike runs im hoping for better throttle response and the revs to pick up quicker,i love the bike so hey even if i just get a better exhaust note il be happy...thanks for the advice though big help....:thumby:
 
Checked valveclearance today (perfect ), synchronised throttlebodies ( were a little off ) and adjusted TPS ( several times, values shift just a little tightening the bolts ).

Sent John a mail with some questions and he answered them pretty quick, even more so since it's Sunday :rolleyes:

Did a little more adjusting per his advice and went for a testride. It picks up very nice ( had a "hesitiation" rolling on the throttle when riding away at a trafficlight, felt like it'd stall for a fraction of a second but never did ) and rides just that little smoother. Still a bit rough idle stationary, have to check that tomorrownight. Use it as a daily driver so I can check what it feels like on the roads I ride everyday ;)


Might as well post his advice here, might be useful to somebody someday:

Max .. make step by stap these works.

1. Adjust at 3.500 the throttle cable.
2. Adjust at 1.400-1.600 by the big screws on the throttles (must be arround of 2 +3/4 turns from close).
3. Adjust the iddle speed by the little screws behind the throttles..

Before and after all these adjustments the TPS must be always on 0,366Volts, so you sould check and adjust again when needed. ..And after new (repeat) adjust of TPS make the zero-zero function.. Good luck
 
Don't adjust the little screws behind the throttles!!!! Resetting them is virtually impossible and they are thread locked for a reason.

Yeah yeah, zero zero etc, don't touch them IMHO.
 
Don't adjust the little screws behind the throttles!!!! Resetting them is virtually impossible and they are thread locked for a reason.

Yeah yeah, zero zero etc, don't touch them IMHO.

+1

But if someone has messed up your throttle stops or tps, a more correct procedure is zero=250mV.
 
Don't adjust the little screws behind the throttles!!!! Resetting them is virtually impossible and they are thread locked for a reason.

Yeah yeah, zero zero etc, don't touch them IMHO.

-1.
There is no problem by adjust the stop of throttles.

The secret is when adjust the left (little stop screw of throttle) sould know that change the TPS setting, so must adjust again the TPS again to 0,366Volt. Each new adjustment of TPS sould take of the fuse 5 and make the zero-zero function. It is a hard work, but by this you can make perfect synchronization at idle speed.
If you try to synchronization the idle speed by the big screws of throttles, then you lose the synchronization at very low speed (1.400-1.600). This is the surge problem at low speed of old boxer engine. The big screws on throttles is for correct fuel at very low speed ..must be arround of 2 +3/4 turns from full close and you can make fine adjustments (by these big screws) at very low revs of rpm (1.400-1.600).. The sychronization by the throttles cable sould make only at 3.500 rpms..
The synchronization by the throttle cable must do only at 3.500 rpms..
 
-1. If you use z=z, the left throttle gets opened to far and small throttle angles are lean. IF YOU USE z=z (and I'm not a fan of touching the screws) you need to start with the throttle closed at 250 mV (not 0mV or 10 mV), then open the left throttle to about 340 mV (or 366 if you like, the exact value doesn't matter +/-20mV from 340) . See link: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24696498#post24696498

And there is no need to reset Fuse 5 each time, since the Motronic relates to the absolute voltage (and doesn't learn the low voltage, which I've shown by experiment) and the idle adjustment is done on a warm engine.

And the BMW Repair Manual indicates that the throttle cables should be adjusted at 2500 RPM.

From the manual, which has a lot of info on the importance of free play adjustment too:

Repeatedly open the throttle gradually and increase
engine speed from idle to approximately
n = 2,500 rpm to check throttle-valve synchronisation.
(Readings shown by Synchro tester must
increase and decrease together). If necessary,
correct by turning the adjusting screws of the
throttle-valve Bowden cable.
 
The stop of throttles are no just "stops" but a little (very little) opening for coming air for idle speed. Only for idle speed !!. The little screws of throttles is for adjustment this little opening of throttle.

The big screws on throttles is for additional incoming air when the throttles are little open, (at 1.200-1.900 rpms).

After 1.900 rpms, the opening of throttle are big and the volume of incoming air is big too.. so the big screws not affect the total volume of air (after 2.000 rpms).

So for correct volume of incoming air at 1.200-1.900 rpms the big screws on throttles must be around 2 + 3/4 full turns from closed..


The "take out" of fuse 5, is always for resetting the ECU..
That needed because there is a routine in ECU that measure the start and end of throttles for founding the correct value (on map) for fuel. This routine is "when take out and refit the fuse 5, at the first time open 3 times full the throttles, the ECU "see" the start and end of throttles", that's it. So gives (by the value of map) the correct fuel depending the rpms.

So when you make new setting on TPS the ECU must learn the new start and end of throttles.


I make all these adjustments to many R850-1100-1150, there is no problem - perfect results.. That needed because the engine after many thousand miles the compression (both) at the cylinder is not the same!!

After these adjustments the synchronization is perfect at idle speed, at low revs (1.200-1.900) and at middle and high rpms, this is the only way.. for full synchronization at all revs of rpms..

So step by step :

1. Make a sychronization by cable at 2.500 or 3.500 rpms.
2. Make a sycrhonization by big screws on throttles at 1.400-1.600 rpms.
3. Finally make a repeating sychronization by the little screws behing the throttles for idle speed, but look always the TPS by voltometer and set it always to 0,366 Volts. After new adjust of TPS, take out the fuse 5 and go again to the 3 step, until :

A. the idle speed is 1.050-1.100 rpms (both cylinder)
B. the big screws are 2 + 3/4 (arround) full turn and
C. the TPS is 0,366 Volts (+/-20mV).


If you dont take out the fuse 5, you will not see the correct idle speed, and when you say " i finish" the adjustment of idle speed, at the next starting of engine you will see another idle speed!!
 
Well, it feels and drives much smoother now, when I ride in 4th gear at about 75 km/h and about 3000 revs and open the throttle it flies away very smooth. Also in 5th gear from low revs. Only thing is the irregular idle. Maybe I'll post a video later this evening.

The "hesitation" when riding away at a trafficlight is gone too, despite the irregular idle.

Since I bought the bike 4 weeks ago I never had the impression that the choke/enricher did anything ( coming from a K 75 with the same lever ), after adjusting the right throttlecable yesterday while synching, this morning I noticed the higher revs I was expecting from a choke. lowering when putting the choke back after a couple of hundred meters.
 
......................... Only thing is the irregular idle. ............

Max.

You can "play" by TPS, set the TPS at 0,34 -0,4 Volts until the idle speed is as you wish..

Take out (both) the intakes air tubes and look carefully (in to the throttles bodies) the "little opening" of throttles by "playing" the grip, maybe the cable is not "good" or maybe there is dust prevents, the left and rigth throttle must close the same time..
 
I synched the throttle cables yesterday ( by adjusting the right side ).

You mean take the airintaketunnels off the throttlebodies/airfilterhousing and look at the throttlevalves themselfs ?

I'll try playing with the TPS before I start adjusting with those small screws with the blue paint on them ;)

Short clip, hard to really hear it. Just a bit worse after twisting the throttle. This is about 1 hour after driving home. It actually stalled twice before I started filming but maybe it needed a bit of choke.

http://youtu.be/BdSTA4TrA6I

[edit]

Thought I'd start with the highest value and put the TPS on 0,398 and seems to be more stable on idle. I'll check how it does tomorrow and work fom there.

Thanks for the help guys !

[edit]

[edit2]

By the way, I think there's a misunderstanding about the z=z . I think John means the reset by taking out fuse 5, not the zero=zero procedure I've read about ??

[edit2]
 
.................
By the way, I think there's a misunderstanding about the z=z . I think John means the reset by taking out fuse 5, not the zero=zero procedure I've read about ??
.........

Yes, thank Max. I mean the fuse 5, i confuse this work by the Zero-Zero.. , there are many technical terms and words, i m trying to improve my english.. :)
 
chipped....

Arrived today,bike now chipped havent had time to roadtest but fired up and idles smooth,free revs....im guessing i got it in the right way round or she wouldnt start?
 
The stop of throttles are no just "stops" but a little (very little) opening for coming air for idle speed. Only for idle speed !!. The little screws of throttles is for adjustment this little opening of throttle.

The big screws on throttles is for additional incoming air when the throttles are little open, (at 1.200-1.900 rpms).

After 1.900 rpms, the opening of throttle are big and the volume of incoming air is big too.. so the big screws not affect the total volume of air (after 2.000 rpms).

So for correct volume of incoming air at 1.200-1.900 rpms the big screws on throttles must be around 2 + 3/4 full turns from closed..


The "take out" of fuse 5, is always for resetting the ECU..
That needed because there is a routine in ECU that measure the start and end of throttles for founding the correct value (on map) for fuel. This routine is "when take out and refit the fuse 5, at the first time open 3 times full the throttles, the ECU "see" the start and end of throttles", that's it. So gives (by the value of map) the correct fuel depending the rpms.

So when you make new setting on TPS the ECU must learn the new start and end of throttles.


I make all these adjustments to many R850-1100-1150, there is no problem - perfect results.. That needed because the engine after many thousand miles the compression (both) at the cylinder is not the same!!

After these adjustments the synchronization is perfect at idle speed, at low revs (1.200-1.900) and at middle and high rpms, this is the only way.. for full synchronization at all revs of rpms..

So step by step :

1. Make a sychronization by cable at 2.500 or 3.500 rpms.
2. Make a sycrhonization by big screws on throttles at 1.400-1.600 rpms.
3. Finally make a repeating sychronization by the little screws behing the throttles for idle speed, but look always the TPS by voltometer and set it always to 0,366 Volts. After new adjust of TPS, take out the fuse 5 and go again to the 3 step, until :

A. the idle speed is 1.050-1.100 rpms (both cylinder)
B. the big screws are 2 + 3/4 (arround) full turn and
C. the TPS is 0,366 Volts (+/-20mV).


If you dont take out the fuse 5, you will not see the correct idle speed, and when you say " i finish" the adjustment of idle speed, at the next starting of engine you will see another idle speed!!

Although you can probably get the above procedure to work, this is a reversing of the usual alignment steps that leads to a lot of back and forth adjustment. The procedure outlined in the BMW service procedure is direct and efficient.

So that someone reading this thread in the future questions whether the above, novel procedure is correct, I want to mention a few things:

1) In a closed loop motorcycle with oxygen sensor there is no need to reset the Motronic during TB sync and alignment. The air for idle is controlled by the BBSs, and the fuel is controlled by lambda.

2) Although it is commonly believed that the Motronic learns the end points, here is what BMW says:

Switch on the ignition.
• Withoutstartingtheengine,fullyopenthethrottle
once or twice so that the Motronic control unit can register the throttle-valve positions.

I've made many tests to see if the end points are learned, they aren't. To be aligned properly, you only have to adjust the tps until a) an led on the r1100 diag connector signals alignment, b) a gs-911 signals r1150 alignment or c) the tps voltage is as close to 350 mV as you can get it. After that, the Motronic doesn't care.

So if the Motronic isn't learning the end points when you rotate the throttle twice, what is it learning? Probably the crossover point between the two different pots inside the tb package.

3) The TPS is not an adjustment for idle speed, so don't use it for that. The primary adjustment is the BBS (Big Brass Screw) on the TB, which adjusts airflow.

An exception is on a non-catalytic converter R1100. In that case the CO Pot and BBSs do interact somewhat.

It is a good idea to leave the TB stop screws and TPS alone if they have original paint on them. If someone has already played with them, then you might need a process to bring them back. zero=250 will get you as close as you can. In that procedure you follow zero=zero but set the TPS at 250 mV with the left tb fully closed (rather than 0-10 mV as suggested in z=z) and use the throttle stop screw to move it just a little to about 350 mV, then finish the z=z procedure. BtW, that will result in the BBSs being opened the proper amount. Don't forget to clean the BBS passages as needed before the procedure.
 
Roadtested today,lovely.picks up way nicer on the throttle,pulls clean tickover nice and smooth,thanks john great improvement great mod well worth the little time and money it takes to do......
 
Thanks!!
After 30-40 miles the ECU will load full the maps and the improvement will be better.
Let us know about consumption please :)
Hope to enjoy :beerjug:
 
Problems

I hate to bring up negative news. I bought one of these chips for my 98 R1100GS, with great expectations. However with it fitted, the engine will not fire up. It just turns over and over without igniting.
John kindly sent me out two further chips, free of charge. However each one has failed to work. When I refit the original chip the bike works ok.
Has anyone else had any similar experience and manage to sort things out?
I have always made sure to allign the tab to the left towards the multi pin, in the same way as the original.
Any thoughts?
 


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