John's tuning chip, don't know if I actually need one!

[mspenz]

There appear to be numerous farkles and 'tuning' parts available for these machines and I have been reading the 'tuning chip' thread with great interest, the amount of positive feedback and genuine sounding responses is impressive so possibly one of the best 'simple' & value for money performance mods available now?
Another great selling point is that he seems to really care about his product and replies to questions, excellent stuff

Ok, I'm recently back from a 2600 mile trip to Europe on a fully laden 04' 1150GSA (servo model) which now has just over 40k mls on the clock, she carried pillion and camping / cooking kit flawlessly around Germany and the Austrian Alps.
Average MPG returned was 51.3/gallon and the total oil used was 650ml, there were some autobahn moments of 110mph and long periods of 80/90mph cruising combined with the usual Black Forest and alpine road fun!!

A little bit extra pulling power would be useful but would that come at any cost? When doing 110mph there was still power available and that was fully laden so should/could I expect anything more.....I'm not so sure!
Kym (that's her name ) has a Lazer end can, Y-Piece, standard air filter, no cat plug or link wire fitted but I did insert an accelerator module which she seems to quite like
No surging and very easy to ride in town (except in 33c temperatures in heavy traffic around Bodensee, ouch).

Sooo....maybe I'm just lucky but I don't think that I need any more, or do I?

Mike.

 

[uncle dick]

A little bit extra pulling power would be useful but would that come at any cost?

Mike.

If my experience is anything to go by, the answer is no. My bike (1100GS) is just better, no matter what you're doing with it. Spent last weekend on a tour with camping gear and got home with 229 miles on the trip and 2 bars left on the fuel gauge. Highly recommended.

 

[Timolgra]

I've had many 11++s and been all over the place on them, I can say hand on heart with first hand experience John's chip will transform your bike like you wouldn't believe..... erm that's why there's so much other positive feedback, of course if your happy the way it is then don't bother

EDIT: Not tried one on an 1100 so couldn't say but my experience of the 1100 was even though I had a good one perfectly set up the fuel consumption was shite and as a complete bike not a patch on a well sorted 1150 ........ now that won't go down well with some!

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

My 850 is a bit like an 1100. It goes like stink and Crikey, why would you not?!!!

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Most bikes don't benefit from aftermarket chips but a few can IF they are designed and extensively tested. So far I have seen no convincing test data on any aftermarket chips. All there is are the usual claims of more power and better mileage. Sometimes there are dyno runs showing tiny gains in a few cells, mostly at WOT.

Boxers run very well with cruise AFRs between 13.8:1 and 14.1:1. That is the configuration of the first R1100s shipped without catalytic converters.

1) If you own an R1100 without a catalytic converter, and run gasoline without ethanol, your bike should run very well on the stock chip. The mixture (AFR) runs right around 14.1:1. If you run fuel with up to 10% ethanol on this bike just add a BoosterPlug and put its probe in the intake manifold.

2) If you own an R1100 with a catalytic converter (Closed Loop bike), remove it, add a co pot, select a no-cat Coding Plug and refer to point 1 above. Or ...

3) If you own an R1100 with cat consider a lambda-shift device, set its AFR to ~14:1 and get a bike that runs with the same mixture as BMW originally designed the R1100 to run at.

4) If you own any R1150 you are stuck with a Closed Loop bike. Any changes to the fueling by changes to the chip will be negated by Closed Loop mixture adaptation. This is true for throttle angles below 23 degrees and virtually all RPMs. For very wide throttle angles you can add fuel but the Boxer already is well fueled at high throttle angles. You can make spark timing changes in the chip on the 1150 but you better pray that the new timing has been tested as well as BMW did on a resistance-load dynomometer.

5) Many bikes run fine with no changes at all. If you want to consider adding just a little fuel (4-6%) to a closed loop (with cat) bike you can add an Innovate Motorsports LC-2 or Nightrider AF-XIED. They go in series with the O2 sensor and don't involve tinkering with the map that BMW spent millions to design. You get a very good improvement in throttle response in the normal riding range at a reasonable price, with no risk.

 

[uncle dick]

Most bikes don't benefit from aftermarket chips but a few can IF they are designed and extensively tested. So far I have seen no convincing test data on any aftermarket chips. All there is are the usual claims of more power and better mileage.

John was very open on this forum and let several people test chips for free - including me. My UK spec 1100 runs much more cleanly through the rev range and I've still got two bars on the fuel gauge with 229miles on the trip meter. With the greatest of respect, John's English isn't his strong point and his Facebook page and data sheets are all a bit confusing at times but the results are excellent. If these chips were marketed by Wunderlich or similar for £200 a time, everyone would be buying them and saying what good value they were. Just to answer your comment on closed loop 1150's, John has published the traces of varying degrees of offset on the fuelling control. The 1150 guys on here are as impressed as I am.

 

[newboy]

Let's be honest - €60?

We spend way more on shite that doesn't do anything don't we?? As soon as I get back - I will get one.. why not? It's reversible...

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

Most bikes don't benefit from aftermarket chips but a few can IF they are designed and extensively tested. So far I have seen no convincing test data on any aftermarket chips. All there is are the usual claims of more power and better mileage. Sometimes there are dyno runs showing tiny gains in a few cells, mostly at WOT.

Boxers run very well with cruise AFRs between 13.8:1 and 14.1:1. That is the configuration of the first R1100s shipped without catalytic converters.

1) If you own an R1100 without a catalytic converter, and run gasoline without ethanol, your bike should run very well on the stock chip. The mixture (AFR) runs right around 14.1:1. If you run fuel with up to 10% ethanol on this bike just add a BoosterPlug and put its probe in the intake manifold.

2) If you own an R1100 with a catalytic converter (Closed Loop bike), remove it, add a co pot, select a no-cat Coding Plug and refer to point 1 above. Or ...

3) If you own an R1100 with cat consider a lambda-shift device, set its AFR to ~14:1 and get a bike that runs with the same mixture as BMW originally designed the R1100 to run at.

4) If you own any R1150 you are stuck with a Closed Loop bike. Any changes to the fueling by changes to the chip will be negated by Closed Loop mixture adaptation. This is true for throttle angles below 23 degrees and virtually all RPMs. For very wide throttle angles you can add fuel but the Boxer already is well fueled at high throttle angles. You can make spark timing changes in the chip on the 1150 but you better pray that the new timing has been tested as well as BMW did on a resistance-load dynomometer.

5) Many bikes run fine with no changes at all. If you want to consider adding just a little fuel (4-6%) to a closed loop (with cat) bike you can add an Innovate Motorsports LC-2 or Nightrider AF-XIED. They go in series with the O2 sensor and don't involve tinkering with the map that BMW spent millions to design. You get a very good improvement in throttle response in the normal riding range at a reasonable price, with no risk.

BOLLOX

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

I respect your posts roger but my my bike is 1.2% better.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I respect your posts roger but my my bike is 1.2% better.

Hey man, good sense of humor. Lol.

 

[ralphy]

4) If you own any R1150 you are stuck with a Closed Loop bike. Any changes to the fueling by changes to the chip will be negated by Closed Loop mixture adaptation. This is true for throttle angles below 23 degrees and virtually all RPMs. For very wide throttle angles you can add fuel but the Boxer already is well fueled at high throttle angles. You can make spark timing changes in the chip on the 1150 but you better pray that the new timing has been tested as well as BMW did on a resistance-load dynomometer.

Whilst I understand little of what you have said here - no disrespect to you, I’m a techno-phobe - what I do know is the chip supplied by John has made a significant difference to my 1150. In words I might be able to understand, can you explain why it has made such a difference please?

R

 

[mspenz]

A question for Roger.

Hi Roger.
I have read several of your previous posts covering varying subjects and it is obvious that you have an amazing detailed knowledge and understanding of mechanics, but can such an extensive knowledge lead to over analysing ??
Surely virtually every engine design has room for some degree of improvement? Yes, BMW had spent millions on the design but if it was perfect they wouldn't upgrade/re-design another 6-12 months later, perhaps John has just found a cost effective and simple way of improving an already very efficient engine unit?
Also, if an engine is working more efficiently, ie, mapping/fuel & air delivery volumes to maximise the effectiveness of throttle position etc then surely the engine has less chance of mechanical failure (providing servicing is maintained) as there should be less strain on the unit?

I'm still undecided but the sheer amount of positive feedback seems to speak volumes, although sometimes just fitting a simple 'add on' or changing plugs to Iridium or fitting a K&N can have a psychological effect and the bike appears to run much better!
Anyone done any dyno testing?

I probably will end up fitting one of John's finest but at the moment I'm pretty happy with her and can't really fault anything but will continue to read the chip thread with interest.

Mike.

 

[B1FF0]

Hail to all who are following this thread.
I run a BMW 3.0 litre diesel car, which in standard form is pretty impressive. Always believing the addage "you cannot get too much of a good thing", I was looking for a tuning device to fit to my car.
Initially, I was sceptical of some of the claims being made by various purveyors of these chips, and some costs seemed very prohibitive, but I did my homework and decided on a box from DTUK. Fate intervened on my behalf and the exact same box I was going to buy, came up at auction on Fleabay. I got it for 25% of new cost, bargain I said to myself.
Anyway, it came in the post and for all intents and purpose, it looked brand new, the chap even supplied the original invoice. It was fitted in minutes and then time came to start the engine....................................................................................................................................
What a transformation!!!!!
Immediately, even at tickover the engine was turbine smooth, compared to the tractor it been minutes before.
Out on the road the impact was totally totally obvious. Much more power, much more torque, smoother, quieter and after about 40,000 trouble free miles the economy is unchanged at an average of 34MPG. Which for a 3 litre is amazing, as most of the driving is in urban conditions with occasional long trips.
Why oh why do BMW not do this as standard?
Honestly, I reckon it would have been worth full price of 400GBP for this upgrade but for what I paid, it was a steal.
Getting back to John's chip, I have just bought one but not fitted yet as I am away from home and bike for a few weeks, but instead of being sceptical I am eager to see/feel the results of his handiwork. I know what is possible due to my experience with the car, so here's hoping for more of the same with John's chip.
Once fitted and tested I will post on here what my findings are.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Whilst I understand little of what you have said here - no disrespect to you, I’m a techno-phobe - what I do know is the chip supplied by John has made a significant difference to my 1150. In words I might be able to understand, can you explain why it has made such a difference please?
R

Since the title of this thread is: "John's tuning chip, don't know if I actually need one!", I thought it would be a reasonable place to offer some dissenting observations about chip replacement in the ECU. There's another thread here that is covering the trials and reports. That I leave to those who are trying them.

There is another thread where riders tried them that you can check out here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=953245. The discussion of chips starts in page 5. Later in those threads, there was a sense that part of the benefit was being lost.

As to your question why it has made a difference to your 1150, there are some possibilities: a) the changes to spark advance that are claimed have been beneficial, and b) the mixture changes in the closed loop range will be slowly reverted to the setting of the lambda sensor so you are still getting some benefit.

Hi Roger.
I have read several of your previous posts covering varying subjects and it is obvious that you have an amazing detailed knowledge and understanding of mechanics, but can such an extensive knowledge lead to over analysing ??
Surely virtually every engine design has room for some degree of improvement? Yes, BMW had spent millions on the design but if it was perfect they wouldn't upgrade/re-design another 6-12 months later, perhaps John has just found a cost effective and simple way of improving an already very efficient engine unit?
Also, if an engine is working more efficiently, ie, mapping/fuel & air delivery volumes to maximise the effectiveness of throttle position etc then surely the engine has less chance of mechanical failure (providing servicing is maintained) as there should be less strain on the unit?

I'm still undecided but the sheer amount of positive feedback seems to speak volumes, although sometimes just fitting a simple 'add on' or changing plugs to Iridium or fitting a K&N can have a psychological effect and the bike appears to run much better!
Anyone done any dyno testing?

I probably will end up fitting one of John's finest but at the moment I'm pretty happy with her and can't really fault anything but will continue to read the chip thread with interest.

Mike.

Mike, I could be over-analyzing but I don't think so. Let me explain why.

After I bought my r1150, I quickly realized how much the boxer engine would benefit from more fuel. On cold days, before it was warmed up, I noticed that it was stronger and smoother. During the warm-up period there is mixture enrichment. That led me to purchase an IAT-shifter.

For the first week I was convinced, as many others still are, that I'd gotten a real performance gain from the air temperature shift. But after a while I could still feel a pronounced difference between warm-up enrichment and a fully warmed up bike. This led me to realize that there were many products offered that had no measured, reported data on what was changed and what was improved--just glowing user reports. Since then I've asked three makers of IAT-shift devices to suggest tests or measurements that I could make that would show up the claimed benefits--no takers.

(I've also asked a chip-modifier to run an exhaust AFR plot showing the before/after changes to mixture. So far I haven't seen one.)

I'm retired, had some time on my hands, was experienced at fuel-injected mixture-management from aircraft piloting, and have a natural curiosity for how things work. It seemed to me, that since the lambda (O2) sensor is the final arbiter of the correct mixture, you could either remove it (with those consequences) or replace it with a sensor that switched at a richer mixture than a stock narrowband sensor.

The short story is that shifting-lambda worked and had an easy to explain way that it worked--a little more fuel in the mixture burned the unconsumed oxygen that exists when you run at 14.7:1 AFR. I was also able to measure the AFR shift, see that it was permanent, and measure the performance benefits. The long story is here: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthrea...=showflat&Main=67207&Number=746671#Post746671.

Although, Dyno testing can measure benefits, in my long thread above, I offered some reasons and cross-tests that show that dyno testing doesn't usually show performance data in the map-area we ride in. Also, inertial dyno runs always start out showing an artificially lean mixture.

As was said by the OP in this thread, if your bike works great as is, why make any changes. I don't disagree. But if you want to make changes, why not have a sound, measured basis for the decision?

 

[Timolgra]

But if you want to make changes, why not have a sound, measured basis for the decision?

You mean like, when I twist the throttle it's much faster and smoother ..... you'll notice we use less words over here

 

[Wrigsby1]

You mean like, when I twist the throttle it's much faster and smoother ..... you'll notice we use less words over here

One of the reason why I find it hard to like ADVrider et al... All that theorising and bollocking on and usually a pedantic face off in the end... My old Superchipped 11GS was a different bike to the standard ones without a doubt...

 

[tallchris99]

This thread reminds me of all the home tuners who took a file to the inlet ports on the likes of Yamaha's RD350 and so on and made their bikes un ridable.

That said there is so much pressure on manufacturers to limit omissions that a remapped chip that ignores the guidelines could work well.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

..... you'll notice we use less words over here

Having spent much of the last 35 years with 3 companies with UK operations, and at least 100 trips over to you from the US, I know what you mean ... Shakespeare, Dickens, Orwell, Rowling, Austen, Lewis, Wilde ... Fleming ... I've noticed less words.

So the short version is, you twist the throttle, and on bikes with oxygen sensors, after a time some replacement chips get slower and less smooth. But I won't make that comment in the thread on "why try the chip", just here in the "why not try the chip" thread ...

 

[ralphy]

As to your question why it has made a difference to your 1150, there are some possibilities: a) the changes to spark advance that are claimed have been beneficial, and b) the mixture changes in the closed loop range will be slowly reverted to the setting of the lambda sensor so you are still getting some benefit.

Thanks for the reply. Could you just expand on the highlighted bit please, as I’m not sure what that actually means.

R

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Below is the fuel table that John1100GS has read from the R1100. He has done a good job reading and reporting the tables. I've annotated it to show those parts of the table that are covered by Closed Loop operation, in Green and Yellow.

For any changes you make to those fuel cells, the Closed Loop program will first learn a short term trim (BMW calls the short term trims Lambda Control Factors, LCF). That LCF will fully offset any change made to that cell by comparing how long a fueling pulse it takes to reach an exhaust gas mixture of lambda=1 (14.7:1 AFR for gasoline) with the pulse that comes from the fuel table. So if the fuel table plus air temp plus barometric temp says the Open Loop fuel pulse is 2.8 mS, but the Closed Loop program calculates that it only takes 2.5 mS to achieve Lambda=1, the Motronic creates an LCF that removes 0.3 mS of fuel. (This is well known to PowerCommander who does not allow changes in this area of the PC III USB w/Wideband.) The reason for this behavior is to lock fueling to the needs of the three-way catalytic converter. It means that the bike "learns and fixes" things like E10 fuel, worn sensors, sensor errors, etc.

Then, if the corrections are large and persist for a long time, the Short Term Trim is moved to the Long Term Trim category. Then the correction is applied to the entire fuel table. It is actually more complicated than I've described by that's the idea of it.