K1600 - left side of the bike inoperative - but only given a certain condition (BMWConnected bug?)

[adhom]

1st post here, and decided to register here because I see vaguely similar comments, and it seems some may have experienced it in one form or another, but I'm looking for some comments.

Background: 2023 K1600 GTLE, purchased brand new in the north of UK.

Perhaps 18 months or so ago, I was happily riding along the M62 when I noticed that neither the indicators or the cruise control were functional. Not a huge deal and my journey was quite critical, so I carried on and waved my arms around (which nowadays, probably no-one understood what an arm signal meant, but hey, it felt appropriate). By the time I arrived at the destination, I'd found that the WonderWheel, high beams, hazard lights, quick access buttons in the left fairing, and anything else electrical on the left of the bike was inop. On arrival at my destination I called the nearest BMW service center, told them the problem and then Google'd while awaiting their tow truck. I was thinking "left hand PCB fault" and after poking the bike for a couple of hours, their technicians reported "loose cable on the left of the bike."

No big deal, "brand new" build, brown stuff happens - bike behaved itself all the way back home again.

A couple of months ago, last ride before laying the bike up over winter, I noticed that the cruise control was non-responsive. "Aha!" I thought to myself, I've seen this before... no point in booking it in because it'll be due a service in Spring anyway.

A couple of weeks ago, pulled the bike out of the garage completely forgetting my "Aha" moment. Went for a ride and observed after some time that yet again, the whole left side of the bike was disabled. But as this ride was just a pre-ride check for a bigger ride that I have coming up, and I'm a software developer for a living... I got to thinking. And that led to a little experimentation (yes yes, don't experiment with broken systems on the road, while riding, it's dangerous, I know...).

• Heated grips & seat were on (it was a cold day) - if it previously had a wiring problem, maybe current draw is a factor... turn those off. Worked again for a couple of miles, then problem resurfaced. Odd.
• Fiddle with whatever settings I could while riding (again, don't do that kids...)... nothing seemed to make a difference.
• Pull over to fiddle with settings that can't be fiddled with on the move... wait a minute, problem has solved itself just by stopping the bike (engine still running, still in gear even, just, everything worked). Odd.
• Considered pulling the fuses for things, but then remembered it's a digital bike, only has 2 fuses... another aha moment... my old man always complained about software in cars... I'm a software guy... I'm sure I can work this out...
• Reached into the top case to pause my music to think a little, what do I see? An error on screen from the BMWConnected app (I don't recall what this error was). I wonder... kill the app, relaunch it... problem disappeared for a few miles, but then resurfaced. Odd.
• Killed bluetooth completely on my phone, rode for a few miles, no problem happened, but I started getting pretty bored without the music... so pulled over, enabled bluetooth, rode some more, problem resurfaced.
• OK, screw that... went through the menu options on the bike to forget the phone connection (I was paired direct from my phone to the helmet for music)... hey presto, cannot get the left side of the bike to disable, no matter what I try.

Thinking that could have been coincidence, rather than evidence, I pulled the bike out yesterday and rode the approx 2h30 to Matlock (for the fish & chips). I deliberately didn't connect the phone to the bike... absolutely no issues. After lunch, stopped in Bakewell (for the cakes, of course), connected the phone to bike... and before I got to the Cat & Fiddle, left side of the bike "inop" - so I pulled over, checked the phone (no errors) and then told the bike to forget the phone connection again. No further problems for the approx 1h40 ride home.

The above "inop" is in quotes, because I actually discovered that pressing and holding a control on the left of the bike, for around 3secs, actually gets it to work - so it seemed there was input lag, rather than complete OOO.

I'll be in touch with the dealership in due course, though I'm also planning to take the bike for a ride next weekend with my "debug phone" connected which has a few utilities that may shed more light on the problem. To my thinking, it's either a CANBUS issue, or a lag problem in the TFT "brains" onboard the bike.

Anyone else seen similar?

 

[Wapping]

Anyone else seen similar?

I haven’t.

 

[leadfarmer]

the whole left side of the bike was disabled

Stroke

 

[squibb34]

Is this any help .......... https://www.k1600forum.com/threads/left-switch-cluster-failure-intermittent.196794/

Otherwise best put the question to the K16 marque forum above.

 

[Wapping]

Stroke

Four, if I had to guess.

 

[theoneandonly]

write your notes and give it to the workshop , always useful if punter knows what they are doing , give them the phone too.

 

[adhom]

Is this any help .......... https://www.k1600forum.com/threads/left-switch-cluster-failure-intermittent.196794/

Otherwise best put the question to the K16 marque forum above.

My internet connection doesn't seem to like that site (constant HTTP 409) - that's partly why I opted to register here, the other part being that I read @Wapping 's notes on their TFT saga (or at least I think it was @Wapping - and I'm half of the mind that it may be a TFT swap in my near future - obviously for the workshop to decide/suggest).

Having just monkey'd around with some buttons on my end, and actually read it - thanks - it does indeed read as being very similar to my problem (though isn't clear on the bluetooth aspect). Sadly, in that thread, no outcomes are stated, only problem reports.

Four, if I had to guess.

I see what you did there - and I don't dislike it.

write your notes and give it to the workshop , always useful if punter knows what they are doing , give them the phone too.

That's the intent - though the local workshop likes to give R3's out for loaner bikes, and I'd rather keep hold of the K16 for a couple of weeks, get a couple of rides out of the way, get it in the shop, and get it back for early May when I have another large ride planned. As a slight bonus I'm going to strap my Insta360 camera to the bike and get a video of the problem, and that disabling bluetooth cures it. Not that I think they'd disbelieve my word, it's just standard practice in my day job to capture reproduction steps on video.

While I continue to ride around with this problem happening, it'll also give me more evidence (and might even rule out bluetooth as being the important factor).

I'm aware that not having indicators responding to command could be considered a safety issue - but per the OP - I also know how to wave an arm around. I'm treating this much more as a curiosity than some big issue.

 

[squibb34]

You seem to be choosing to ignore the most likely culprit, the left hand switch cluster, in exchange for some rather random guesswork. The K16s have form; dealers are well aware of the history, but many will drop into default denial mode initially.

Sometimes it's the wiring, which may be deemed adequate, but is pretty frail; other times water ingress. In theory BMW cured the H2O problem on later models, but we still get a few reports, along with discreet replacement under warranty when pressed. Fractured wiring has however become more commonplace of late, which can make/break contact in the early stages, before failing completely. BTW, the wiring to the quick shifter has also been known to break rather easily too.

There are a whole host of threads on the marque forum, I just plucked one at random. If yours doesn't like the site? it makes sense to find a computer that does & spend a happy hour comparing notes.

 

[adhom]

You seem to be choosing to ignore the most likely culprit, the left hand switch cluster...

Not at all - indeed, in the OP, I stated that I thought originally (when BMW techs said loose wiring) that it may be a failed left hand switch cluster. I'm well aware of that problem.

Further, my post prior to this one suggested that after more experimentation, I may find that bluetooth actually has nothing to do with it.

If yours doesn't like the site? it makes sense to find a computer that does & spend a happy hour comparing notes.

It's not actually the computer, but explaining all of the detail is much more effort than saying "my internet connection doesn't seem to like it." Worry not, I know how to solve it on my end, and will be doing, along with spending time reading that site. I'm also aware that this is more a GS focused site, and was aware of that when choosing to sign up here (and equally, the thought that went through my head was akin to "it would be reasonable to re-use the same software, and in many cases hardware, in the various BMW TFT enabled bikes, so at least the K16 and RT likely share common areas, if not the GS")

Now, considering BMW have previously stated "loose wire" - and the problem disappeared completely for perhaps a year (I have no reason to doubt that they simply pushed a connector in more firmly), combined with my ride last Saturday (whereby the problem didn't happen until I connected bluetooth, and then happened quite quickly, only to disappear entirely and not resurface when bluetooth was disconnected)... I'm personally at a loss to explain how fractured copper tracks might act that way. So too, is my adult son, who happens to be an electrical engineer by trade. Of course, our anecdotal experiences don't rule it out as a possibility, no matter how remotely we might consider it.

Even further, I happen to live on a farm and used to own an ST1300 - I'm familiar with field mice liking the taste of wiring that leads to the Code 26/27 problem on the Pan, though thankfully never experienced that myself.

Again, I'm not ruling anything out, hence wanting to spend more time riding it and investigating as a curiosity. How was it you put it?

some rather random guesswork

I prefer the term "evidence led investigation" - but each to their own!

 

[Wapping]

Mended it yet?