rudiemoto
Registered user
Yup, this sounds like bollox to me too. I'd say...
No tech gets 30.40k
Ask any tech
The end
Service mangers don't get that
From 10.00 to 25.00 per hour
LC Service intervals a disgrace
- Thread starter oldnfat
- Start date
No tech gets 30.40k
Ask any tech
The end
Service mangers don't get that
From 10.00 to 25.00 per hour
BBB61
Registered user
I'd be far more inclined to agree with Andres .The other explanation sounds absolute bollox, on a number of counts.Common sense will tell us that.
Hmm, let me see, a UKGSer member against a technician who has been in the business for over 30 years. Knowing Steve he is not the type to bullshit.
(RIP) Johno23
Registered user
Perhaps it's just a poorly written statement, or not quite what he meant. But you would not wear brake pads out in 6k. At any service the technician will be able to tell you the % of wear on the pads so you will be able to work out approx when they will need changing. The main point however is BMW do not change discs under warranty unless they are warped or have some other fault.They won't change your discs because you fucked them up because your pads wore out in between services.
BBB61
Registered user
Perhaps it's just a poorly written statement, or not quite what he meant. But you would not wear brake pads out in 6k. At any service the technician will be able to tell you the % of wear on the pads so you will be able to work out approx when they will need changing. The main point however is BMW do not change discs under warranty unless they are warped or have some other fault.They won't change your discs because you fucked them up because your pads wore out in between services.
You don't wear brake pads out in under 6k? You may not, and I don't but others do. I had a guy turn up for a CBT a few years back on a Gilera Runner 125. It was almost new and had done 1400 miles and the owner had let his brother use it for a while until he got his CBT sorted. Whilst doing the safety checks on the bike I noticed the front brake lever had more travel than I expected. On checking the brake pads I found they were down to the metal in a mere 1400 miles.
If you look through the forum there are quite a few references to the rear pads on 1150 and 1200GS lasting less than 5000 miles.
I'm sure there are plenty of others who can tell of brake pads wearing in under 6000 miles.
Bendy toy
Registered user
On other bikes I had organic type pads worn out in 5000 miles. But going to sintered, even cheaper brands lasted 15000. The usual argument against them is disc wear. However, my rear disc lasted 70,000 of which 40,000 was with sintered pads.
Some folks must ride with the brakes on and do every stop on the back brake.
Some folks must ride with the brakes on and do every stop on the back brake.
Myke Rocks
Registered user
Not neccessarily
Fronts always last 30,000+ miles.
No: what nobody has commented on is why BMW fit such a shite rear brake caliper with such thin pads in it. Look at the thickness of car rear pads, or motorcycle front pads for a comparison.
In reality, the only item needing attention on these bikes in under 10,000 miles is the shite rear brake pads.
Myke
On my bike (2005 1200rt linked servo brakes) the standard brake pads just about survive the same length as a rear tyre. I changed them to sintered pads, and they now survive comfortably longer, but I generally change then with rear tyre anyway.
Fronts always last 30,000+ miles.
No: what nobody has commented on is why BMW fit such a shite rear brake caliper with such thin pads in it. Look at the thickness of car rear pads, or motorcycle front pads for a comparison.
In reality, the only item needing attention on these bikes in under 10,000 miles is the shite rear brake pads.
Myke
Bendy toy
Registered user
Small easy rot callipers and skinny pads are another bike fashion item. Indeed why are they not made a few mm wider and fitted with stainless or brass liners so the seal grooves wont rot. Oh yes because race bikes have the smallest possible brake callipers and they chuck them after every race (or two).
Generally, BMW manage to avoid the bike industry engineering dogma such as a large low speed clutch/gearbox and front forks that dive on the brakes. Unfortunately their brakes are still with the crowd.
TBH I hardly use my back brake. Its not very effective and when it does bite the ABS soon kicks in. It's nice to have, but for all the fancy suspension I find the back brake is pretty much redundant. Another reason I dont like linked brakes.
Generally, BMW manage to avoid the bike industry engineering dogma such as a large low speed clutch/gearbox and front forks that dive on the brakes. Unfortunately their brakes are still with the crowd.
TBH I hardly use my back brake. Its not very effective and when it does bite the ABS soon kicks in. It's nice to have, but for all the fancy suspension I find the back brake is pretty much redundant. Another reason I dont like linked brakes.
CuzGS
Registered user
Personally I go to the ABW armed with a large bag of donuts which I waft in front of Rudiemoto. 6 Donuts and 99p later, bike sorted.
I think that regular service intervals are a good idea, whether you do it yourself if you have the inclination/competence or you pay someone else to do it. Long service intervals are just a way of pandering to fleet buyers of cars because it looks good to the accountants.
Motorcycles should be serviced more often for obvious reasons - Triumph and Ducati have extended their service intervals because they think it is a selling point, but it is short sighted - it will also give their dealers far less incentive to look after their customers once they have sold them a bike.
Motorcycles should be serviced more often for obvious reasons - Triumph and Ducati have extended their service intervals because they think it is a selling point, but it is short sighted - it will also give their dealers far less incentive to look after their customers once they have sold them a bike.
I love reading through all these technical explanations for why the service intervals are so short.
The simple reason is surely because the mugs will accept it.
I believe it is far more down to market forces and economics than anything technical.
For example, there was a discussion on a car forum about the differences between service intervals on Audis, VWs and Skoda when they all had similar technology underneath. The answer was that the VWs had the standard intervals, the Skodas had slightly longer as they knew the owners were tight fisted gits who were careful with their money. The Audis were serviced more frequently as the owners were perceived as having more money than sense so would accept it.
Also see the difference between markets in different countries eg in USA they would not accept such rip-off practices but in UK people just bend over and take it.
If every customer complained to BMW then they might take notice but as long as mugs keep paying the ridiculous prices for the bikes, the parts and the servicing, then it will continue.
The simple reason is surely because the mugs will accept it.
I believe it is far more down to market forces and economics than anything technical.
For example, there was a discussion on a car forum about the differences between service intervals on Audis, VWs and Skoda when they all had similar technology underneath. The answer was that the VWs had the standard intervals, the Skodas had slightly longer as they knew the owners were tight fisted gits who were careful with their money. The Audis were serviced more frequently as the owners were perceived as having more money than sense so would accept it.
Also see the difference between markets in different countries eg in USA they would not accept such rip-off practices but in UK people just bend over and take it.
If every customer complained to BMW then they might take notice but as long as mugs keep paying the ridiculous prices for the bikes, the parts and the servicing, then it will continue.
The Grey One
Registered user
I love reading through all these technical explanations for why the service intervals are so short.
The simple reason is surely because the mugs will accept it.
I believe it is far more down to market forces and economics than anything technical.
For example, there was a discussion on a car forum about the differences between service intervals on Audis, VWs and Skoda when they all had similar technology underneath. The answer was that the VWs had the standard intervals, the Skodas had slightly longer as they knew the owners were tight fisted gits who were careful with their money. The Audis were serviced more frequently as the owners were perceived as having more money than sense so would accept it.
Also see the difference between markets in different countries eg in USA they would not accept such rip-off practices but in UK people just bend over and take it.
If every customer complained to BMW then they might take notice but as long as mugs keep paying the ridiculous prices for the bikes, the parts and the servicing, then it will continue.
Well that's one way of looking at it. I think your right in that service intervals are arbitrarily set. But if you think some manufacturers allow longer service intervals because they are less likely than others to be after your money you are wrong, I think. The pressure for longer service intervals comes from the car market and was the result of the views of the big fleet managers looking to reduce costs. From my experience I know an awful lot can happen in 6,000 miles. For high mileage users longer service intervals are fine, by the very nature of their higher mileages most will have done many long trips which are much kinder to the vehicle. Those doing less than average mileage, however often suffer. Owners read that their new car only needs servicing every 20,000 miles and so, in many cases,3 years down the line they present the car for an MOT which is due before the 20,000 miles are up. Many are surprised when the vehicle fails the test.
Most bikes do a very low annual mileage and most owners these days have little mechanical knowledge (present company excepted!) so a check every 6,000 miles makes sense. Makers quoting a longer interval do so in the hope of persuading buyers that their vehicle is cheaper to run. I wonder how many on here, with the knowledge and skill to check the bike over, do so only once every 10,000 miles?
John
BBB61
Registered user
There is one slight flaw in this......it is total crap. VW/Audi/Skoda all have either a service every 10000 miles or they can be switched to condition based servicing if the driving style is suitable.
mcinlb
Registered user
Re 6000ml servicing, I heard that it was a figure arrived at because that was the general average mileage a motorcyclist did in a year and annual servicing/checking was required on bikes in the past
That is my thought on the whole issue.
There have been instances of van engines 'going wrong' just outside the warranty period which is all any manufacturer is interested in.
Somebody (an independent mechanic) once told me (and I have no proof and it may be hearsay)
...that components on modern European vehicles were designed to last the lifetime of the warranty ie 3-5 years
However the Japanese had an entirely different viewpoint, that the components that their vehicles used, were designed the lifetime of the vehicle ie 20-30 years
Maybe some truth in it, maybe not
Somebody (an independent mechanic) once told me (and I have no proof and it may be hearsay)
...that components on modern European vehicles were designed to last the lifetime of the warranty ie 3-5 years
However the Japanese had an entirely different viewpoint, that the components that their vehicles used, were designed the lifetime of the vehicle ie 20-30 years
Maybe some truth in it, maybe not
I think the cost and effort needed to make a component last 3-5 yrs is disproportionate to the saving............
Al
Somebody (an independent mechanic) once told me (and I have no proof and it may be hearsay)
...that components on modern European vehicles were designed to last the lifetime of the warranty ie 3-5 years
However the Japanese had an entirely different viewpoint, that the components that their vehicles used, were designed the lifetime of the vehicle ie 20-30 years
Maybe some truth in it, maybe not
If that were the case there would be one black and one silver pile of dust in your garage
Somebody (an independent mechanic) once told me (and I have no proof and it may be hearsay)
...that components on modern European vehicles were designed to last the lifetime of the warranty ie 3-5 years
However the Japanese had an entirely different viewpoint, that the components that their vehicles used, were designed the lifetime of the vehicle ie 20-30 years
Maybe some truth in it, maybe not
The prestige German car companies have a design life target of 200,000 miles. Mercedes and Porsche have and Porsche will sell a yearly warranty thru 110, 000 miles from memory. In the bad old days of the 70's Jaguar had a design life of 100,000 miles and they fell to bits quite easily, I guess they are now at 200,000 mile also.
Service intervals are about protecting manufacturers liability/warranty so oil change is about engine and gearbox, the most expensive components.
Bike magazine stripped down a Yamaha R1 and Fireblade some years ago and measured the wear on key components. The engines had covered 80,000 miles with synthetic oil and had 2 thou wear on key components, amazing evidence in their view how synthetic oil stops wear.
If that were the case there would be one black and one silver pile of dust in your garage
Didn't I mention it
They melted in the snow and now resemble a Ghostbusters blob on the garage floor now
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