Linked brakes ; what is the division ?

[GrinningGSer]

Using my NavV Last ride analyser ; front brakes 186, rear brakes 383
Those figures do not involve me using my rear brake pedal .
Does your linked brakes system prefer to use the rear ?
Bike is a 1200GSA 2014, but not sure that affects things .

 

[Schtum]

Using the front brake lever, the rear brake is always applied slightly before the front. If you only apply light pressure, the front will often not activate at all.

 

[GrinningGSer]

Thanks Schtum . I’m still learning after 40 years of motorcycling.

 

[Schtum]

Thanks Schtum . I’m still learning after 40 years of motorcycling.

It's the best way to be. I like to think I'm open to learning something new every day. 50 years this year since I bought my first bike.

 

[ChazzyB]

Using the front brake lever, the rear brake is always applied slightly before the front. If you only apply light pressure, the front will often not activate at all.

How does that work, then? Can you point us to the engineering details on this?

Does the bike's computer read your mind to determine when you're just thinking you need to apply the front brake, so it can nip in and apply the back before you actually get to squeeze the lever?

It's not a brake by wire system. You squeeze that front brake lever, the brake is applied directly, hydraulically. It even works if you haven't got the ignition switched on.

 

[Schtum]

How does that work, then? Can you point us to the engineering details on this?

Does the bike's computer read your mind to determine when you're just thinking you need to apply the front brake, so it can nip in and apply the back before you actually get to squeeze the lever?

It's not a brake by wire system. You squeeze that front brake lever, the brake is applied directly, hydraulically. It even works if you haven't got the ignition switched on.

If you really believe what you just typed, you might find this a bit hard going. Nevertheless, try to glean what you can. No doubt, there are also other sources on the web/

https://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-abs-and-automatic-stability-control/

 

[ChazzyB]

If you really believe what you just typed, you might find this a bit hard going. Nevertheless, try to glean what you can. No doubt, there are also other sources on the web/

https://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-abs-and-automatic-stability-control/

I'd suggest that article *supports* what I said. Have you actually read it?

The new Integral ABS system applies brake pressure on the front wheel brake solely by means of a hydraulic circuit, thus acting entirely in response to the operating forces applied on the hand lever. This, in turn, ensures a more direct feeling of the brakes particularly important to the sports-minded rider. And now the rider no longer has to get used to any change in control or operation of the brakes when switching over from a motorcycle without ABS.

 

[Schtum]

I'd suggest that article *supports* what I said. Have you actually read it?

As I predicted. Try reading the whole thing.

 

[Neil W]

Does the traction control not utilise the rear brake system and if so is it recorded as application of brakes ?

 

[ChazzyB]

You believe what you want chum. I'll continue believing the system is hydraulic, with pressure applied the rider using a lever, back and front, producing an effect directly at the associated caliper(s). *Directly*. The fact the ECU can cause the rear brake to be applied using the ABS pump to do it, when using the front brake only is also understood. Otherwise, I suggest you give the braking system credit for doing a lot of stuff it can't and doesn't actually do.

 

[ChazzyB]

Does the traction control not utilise the rear brake system and if so is it recorded as application of brakes ?

AFAIK traction control reduces engine power, and pretty seamlessly on modern systems. I'm only aware TC is doing anything by the light flashing. Usually though, I'm looking up the road, not at the dash.

 

[knutk]

I have never seen a highly detailed description of the Integral brakes. So no reference to an article.

However, we may ask, how is it possible for the rear brake to be applied more often than the front brake even if we only use the front brake lever and never touch the footbrake lever?
In a conventional system this would be impossible.
However, this system is far from conventional.

The number of brake aplications presented to the rider is not counting the number of times we touch the brake lever. It counts the number of times brake pressure is being applied to the front and rear brake respectivly.

But we use the front brake lever only, so how can it be that using the front brake lever only results in usages of the rear wheel brake only if we apply a light brake pressure to the lever?

This is technically possible since the light pressure is sensed by the ABS module. The ABS module will then delay or even omit the brake pressure being applied to the front wheel by bypassing the frontwheel brake pressure being applied to the calipper. The rider will not notice this, as the system does this in a way that the rider will not be able to tell the difference. The days of feedback from ABS is sensed through the brake lever are long gone.

So the integral brake is not a mind reader. If the rear brake receives brake pressure before the front brake, this is because the rear brake pressure is applied at almost the very moment the front brake lever is used. The frontbrake calipper however gets it's pressure delayed by the system bypassing the lever pressure as requred.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

I have never seen a highly detailed description of the Integral brakes. So no reference to an article.

However, we may ask, how is it possible for the rear brake to be applied more often than the front brake even if we only use the front brake lever and never touch the footbrake lever?
In a conventional system this would be impossible.
However, this system is far from conventional.

The number of brake aplications presented to the rider is not counting the number of times we touch the brake lever. It counts the number of times brake pressure is being applied to the front and rear brake respectivly.

But we use the front brake lever only, so how can it be that using the front brake lever only results in usages of the rear wheel brake only if we apply a light brake pressure to the lever?

This is technically possible since the light pressure is sensed by the ABS module. The ABS module will then delay or even omit the brake pressure being applied to the front wheel by bypassing the frontwheel brake pressure being applied to the calipper. The rider will not notice this, as the system does this in a way that the rider will not be able to tell the difference. The days of feedback from ABS is sensed through the brake lever are long gone.

So the integral brake is not a mind reader. If the rear brake receives brake pressure before the front brake, this is because the rear brake pressure is applied at almost the very moment the front brake lever is used. The frontbrake calipper however gets it's pressure delayed by the system bypassing the lever pressure as requred.

Knutk, Thanks for being bothered to explain this (Once again) here.
It surprises me that people ride their machines without knowing or understanding the basic technical details. This isn't new. Its been around a while now. And I thought was common knowledge. I'm sure this has come up here before.
The mind boggles...... Or in Cabby's view " The mind reads"

 

[GrinningGSer]

Some like to know technical reasons ( I do ) , others have no interest and are just happy that they’ve spent £20k on technology that does smart, two fingered thinking for them , keeping them safe.
I have ridden GS’s for 22years, and without delving into ride data , I would never have known that the rear brake was being applied so much more than the front, because it sure doesn’t feel like it. I even wondered if I have a fault .
I’m still intrigued and questioning though and if you haven’t got constructive answers then move onto another thread please.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

Some like to know technical reasons ( I do ) , others have no interest and are just happy that they’ve spent £20k on technology that does smart, two fingered thinking for them , keeping them safe.
I have ridden GS’s for 22years, and without delving into ride data , I would never have known that the rear brake was being applied so much more than the front, because it sure doesn’t feel like it. I even wondered if I have a fault .
I’m still intrigued and questioning though and if you haven’t got constructive answers then move onto another thread please.

That's all very well. And I agree. If you just ride and not interested in the detail, then so be it. But if you ask the question

 

[GrinningGSer]

Ok then, simple for you …. do I have a problem with my brakes ?

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

I don't know
And, I'm not interested

 

[GrinningGSer]

Stay out of this thread then . Sorted and thanking you for your valuable input .

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

Stay out of this thread then . Sorted

No

Keep Grinning Gser

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

and thanking you for your valuable input .

No Worries
I'm sure this is covered in the manual ?