London Borough of Islington

[Greg Masters]

The London Borough of Islington now appears to be a 20mph zone.

I'm all for reducing accidents but just who are these faceless feckwits who cannot differentiate between speed and poor driving standards?

 

[OTTer]

WHICH magazine on figures released by DfT:-

Areas with highest collision rate

Islington - 463 collisions per 100 million miles driven

City of London - 426 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Camden - 382 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Westminster - 374 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Hackney - 370 collisions per 100 million miles driven


Areas with lowest collision rate

Warwickshire - 47 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Northamptonshire - 43 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Rutland - 43 collisions per 100 million miles driven

South Gloucestershire - 42 collisions per 100 million miles driven

West Berkshire - 38 collisions per 100 million miles driven


Apparently research would suggest that if a child is hit by a car travelling at 35 mph the survival rate is only 50% but at 20 mph the survival rate is actually 97per cent.

 

[DavidHale]

And where in Islington can you actually drive at 35mph? Waaaay too much traffic. As usual, a knee jerk reaction to a situation that has nothing to do with speed but more to do with distractions, poor driving, using phones, inattention and everything else. Speed is way down the list.

 

[MMC]

WHICH magazine on figures released by DfT:-

Areas with highest collision rate

Islington - 463 collisions per 100 million miles driven

Apparently research would suggest that if a child is hit by a car travelling at 35 mph the survival rate is only 50% but at 20 mph the survival rate is actually 97per cent.

I'd be fascinated to see what the causes of those crashes were. Odds on, exceeding a speed limit (no matter how erroneously set) didn't account for one.

Interesting in Portsmouth where 20 limits were trialled, accidents rose after the limit was imposed.

 

[MMC]

I'm all for reducing accidents but just who are these faceless feckwits who cannot differentiate between speed and poor driving standards?

They're called 'councillors'. And they're in search of re-election. And the latest government advice on setting speed limits (Department for Transport circular 01/2013) is scary reading. Basically, you can kiss 60 limits goodbye - they're only for roads:

Recommended for most high quality strategic A and B roads with few bends, junctions or accesses.

So that's your favourite twisties gone.

Instead, they'll be 40mph:

40mph: Should be considered where there are many bends, junctions or accesses, substantial development, a strong environmental or landscape reason, or where there are considerable numbers of vulnerable road
users and kittens.

And half of us are about to get criminalised, because the 85th percentile has been chucked out in favour of mean average speeds. Bit of genius, that.

So, where The People's Republic of Islington leads, your local town will follow soon. And so will the countryside around it.

Have fun, people.

 

[DavidHale]

Instead, they'll be 40mph:

That'll be everywhere within Epping Forest then. Started as NSL, now 40mph. There'll be elections coming up soon then...

 

[MMC]

That'll be everywhere within Epping Forest then. Started as NSL, now 40mph. There'll be elections coming up soon then...

Quite.

I've posted it before, but it's worth it again: http://mmcmusings.com/2010/08/16/what-are-speed-limits-for-daddy/

 

[Greg Masters]

.... no plans at this stage ....

On the day I started this thread, I also wrote to LB Islington:

Dear Mr Fletcher

As I did this morning, I will drive at no more than 20mph whenever I drive in LBI. As I did this morning, I will create tailbacks and angry motorists who I will impede going about their business.

I applaud your initiative in reducing accidents by reducing the speed of motorcars. And I absolutely agree that speed is the cause of all accidents. To those that say accidents are caused by poor driving standards, poor concentration, use of mobile devices, tiredness, ineptitude etc, I say that only speed causes accidents.

Do you plan to re-enact in the Borough the requirements of The Locomotive Act of 1865? I think that would really bring down the accident rate.

Greg Masters
Cheshunt
​

Today, over two weeks on, I have received the following reply:

Dear Greg Masters,

Thank you for your email regarding the new 20mph speed limit on Islington’s principal roads.

Islington Council has implemented a 20mph limit to reduce vehicle speeds on roads and improve the quality of life for Islington residents. Other Central London boroughs are also considering following Islington’s lead, for instance Camden are currently consulting on a borough wide 20mph limit. We believe that more boroughs will adopt this approach which will also lead to reducing accidents and the 20mph limit could, in time, become the norm in Central London.

The Police are responsible for enforcement of speed limits. The Council will be undertaking post implementation speed surveys and as with 30mph limits, if there is a problem with persistent speeding in an area, we will look to work with the Police to provide suitable enforcement.

We have no plans at this stage to re-enact the Locomotive Act of 1865.

Regards,

Mike Fletcher
Senior Engineer
Traffic and Engineering
​

To save you looking it up, the Locomotive Act of 1865 is more usually known as the Red Flag Act!

 

[Keith Chapman]

who are these faceless feckwits who cannot differentiate between speed and poor driving standards?

The same ones who seem to think that an HGV that can legally do 60mph on a motorway should be governed to do 50mph on the grounds of safety.

 

[Greg Masters]

20mph is so fecking slow, I got rear-ended by a cyclist in Islington yesterday!

 

[Bryn]

20mph is so fecking slow, I got rear-ended by a cyclist in Islington yesterday!

Greg.. You need to be driving a Jazz for the full effect

 

[WindyChuffer]

Have London Borough of Islington published any justification for the for the reduced 20mph speed limit, supported by facts and stats? Would be keen to critique it....

 

[Greg Masters]

Have London Borough of Islington published any justification for the for the reduced 20mph speed limit, supported by facts and stats? Would be keen to critique it....

Try the link in the first post.

 

[WindyChuffer]

Try the link in the first post.

Yes I did that before posting...

Oh well, looks like will resort to emailing the guy named on the bottom of the page.

 

[Greg Masters]

Oh well, looks like will resort to emailing the guy named on the bottom of the page.

I'm still waiting for a reply to the e-mail I sent him last week:

Dear Mike

My third car journey through Islington this morning since the new limits were set.

As I said I would, I strictly adhered to the 20mph limit (my car has a speed limiter which I had set). At this speed a fit cyclist was tracking my every move and maintaining the same pace along Green Lanes. Unfortunately, when I had to brake sharply, he discovered that his cycle brakes were inferior to my car brakes. He hit the back of my car and he and his cycle were sprawled over the road - luckily without serious injury to him but with some damage to my car.

Had I been driving at 30mph, the cyclist would have been unable to sustain his position behind my car and this accident would not have occurred. It would seem, therefore, that LBI and I had been wrong in assuming that lowering speed limits reduces the risk of all accident types.

I should also add that my car is a hybrid. At 20 mph it is more likely to be propelled by battery power alone - a status which I understand is popularly referred to as the 'silent death'.

Given the above, I urge LBI to reintroduce the Red Flag Act. To do so would increase the safety of all road users and create a whole new genre of much-needed employment in these dark times.​

 

[NLC]

30mph provides a mechanism for population control. If the survival rate increases to 97% by lowering the speed limit to 20mph London will become the next Mumbai.

 

[MMC]

Have London Borough of Islington published any justification for the for the reduced 20mph speed limit, supported by facts and stats? Would be keen to critique it....

Yeah. It goes like this:

We're the council. We believe in speed limits, polar bears, and climate change and we can do as we like. Next!

The Portsmouth study's pretty conclusive that 20s are a waste of time, and my own research into the Oxford 20s shows the same. A pointless, shibbolethic waste of money.

But when did that ever stop a council from claiming a success?

 

[Greg Masters]

I'm still waiting for a reply to the e-mail I sent him last week:

Dear Mike

My third car journey through Islington this morning since the new limits were set.

As I said I would, I strictly adhered to the 20mph limit (my car has a speed limiter which I had set). At this speed a fit cyclist was tracking my every move and maintaining the same pace along Green Lanes. Unfortunately, when I had to brake sharply, he discovered that his cycle brakes were inferior to my car brakes. He hit the back of my car and he and his cycle were sprawled over the road - luckily without serious injury to him but with some damage to my car.

Had I been driving at 30mph, the cyclist would have been unable to sustain his position behind my car and this accident would not have occurred. It would seem, therefore, that LBI and I had been wrong in assuming that lowering speed limits reduces the risk of all accident types.

I should also add that my car is a hybrid. At 20 mph it is more likely to be propelled by battery power alone - a status which I understand is popularly referred to as the 'silent death'.

Given the above, I urge LBI to reintroduce the Red Flag Act. To do so would increase the safety of all road users and create a whole new genre of much-needed employment in these dark times.​

Dear Greg Masters,

Thank you for your email.

We feel that 20mph is a suitable and safe speed for traffic to be travelling at on Islington's roads and that the walking pace of the Red Flag Act would not be reasonable. Thank you for your suggestion but at this time we have no plans to recommend its return.

Regards,

Mike Fletcher

 

[MMC]

Dear Greg Masters,

Thank you for your email.

We feel that 20mph is a suitable and safe speed...

Yep. We've got no evidence to prove it, it's just what we believe.

”I believe in Manmade Global Warming, “Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep”, Polar Bears, Divine Right cycling and 20mph limits…”

 

[er-minio]

for instance Camden are currently consulting on a borough wide 20mph limit

The ones in Camden are even better.

Haverstock Hill (main road) is now 20mph.
All the smaller roads are 30mph (with speed bumps).

This also meant a lot of new signage at all the junctions...