Long Tail backs and Solid centre white line.

[SBD]

I think you should hand back your licence,
Or failing that brush up on your highway code

An amber light on traffic lights means STOP ie its still a red light

I have failed people who were trying to beat the lights during driving assessments

Old name was amber gambler

I didn’t mean to suggest that amber was green, and I certainly didn’t mean to suggest accelerating.

I suggest “stop if safe to do so”. Amber is there for practical reasons, otherwise traffic lights would be just green or red.

From the HC online

AMBER means ‘Stop’ at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident

My italics. I guess the decision point must be several metres in advance of the stop line. 30mph sensible braking distance including reaction time - 23m apparently, though I’d expect most bikes and bikers to be a bit sharper than that. If you’re closer to the stop line than that (or some similar number), when the lights go amber, you’ll not stop before the line. And probably get arse-ended for your pains. So it is clearly safer to continue.

Daffy’s post to which I responded “Seriously I went through an amber traffic light years ago, it was snowing and I didn’t want to slam my brakes on as I thought I’d stop in the middle of the junction.” suggests to me that he thought he would not stop safely before the line. He might have been doing a daft speed, stuck his foot down, or a gazillion other misdemeanours, but assuming the situation is as he described it, I still do not understand why he was prosecuted.

 

[Daffy]

I didn’t mean to suggest that amber was green, and I certainly didn’t mean to suggest accelerating.

I suggest “stop if safe to do so”. Amber is there for practical reasons, otherwise traffic lights would be just green or red.

From the HC online

AMBER means ‘Stop’ at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident

My italics. I guess the decision point must be several metres in advance of the stop line. 30mph sensible braking distance including reaction time - 23m apparently, though I’d expect most bikes and bikers to be a bit sharper than that. If you’re closer to the stop line than that (or some similar number), when the lights go amber, you’ll not stop before the line. And probably get arse-ended for your pains. So it is clearly safer to continue.

Daffy’s post to which I responded “Seriously I went through an amber traffic light years ago, it was snowing and I didn’t want to slam my brakes on as I thought I’d stop in the middle of the junction.” suggests to me that he thought he would not stop safely before the line. He might have been doing a daft speed, stuck his foot down, or a gazillion other misdemeanours, but assuming the situation is as he described it, I still do not understand why he was prosecuted.

For clarity, I was moving fairy slowly because the road was white with snow and it was snowing hard, the light went to amber at the point where I would normally have stopped but I chose not to because the road was slippery and i thought I’d stop over the line.

The police were at the other light and took the view that I’d gone through when I shouldn’t, I didn’t accept this or consider that I wasn’t driving to the conditions but I was a bit of a dick back then so who knows.

 

[richardbd]

I don’t understand what is wrong with going through an amber light or why you got prosecuted.

It’s warning you that it will be red in a short time, because reaction time and safe braking are not instantaneous. You’re supposed to drive through if stopping would be hazardous.

Or?

 

[SBD]

i don’t get the hilarity.

Maybe I’m thick, so please explain what you would do if you are driving at a legal 30mph, and the lights go amber when you are, let’s say, 15m from them?

 

[karlakGS]

I seem to remember being told many years ago while on IAM training in a car that Amber lights are timed to coincide with the speed limit on that road. That is the time between going from Amber to Red is longer in a 40 limit than a 30. and 50 longer and so on. This is to account for the vehicle speeds as they approach the lights when the amber appears. This would allow the driver more time to clear the light stop line before it went Red. Seems to make sense to me. You can see this on national speed limit roads with traffic lights, the amber light is on for what seems an age, before then going Red.

Every day millions of vehicles will clear lights on an amber, before it goes Red. You can't just make a vehicle stop on the spot when the amber appears and you are 15 yards from the lights doing 40mph.

Maybe things have changed, but I am sure Traffic Light cameras are set to catch those that have gone through on Red. IF the buggers could do you for an amber I am sure they would be doing.

Interesting discussion though.

Would this be a good time to mention temporary lights and the illegality of cars going through those on Red ? Recently our village has had multiple road works, all with lights.. Amazing how many drivers seems to consider these lights just a type of advisory... All well and good until the dufus doesnt realise they are 3 or 4 way controlled. Absolute carnage ensued.. (maybe start a new thread for that debate )

 

[Mr Bean]

For me it would depend on the conditions prevailing at the time, as I mentioned above if the road was clear, if I had a good view up the road etc I may decide to pass the stationary vehicle and pray that PC Himmler was not on duty

Most mornings when the traffic is stationary (or travelling at walking pace) on this stretch of road, I will cross the solid white line to overtake, as do just about all two wheeled vehicles.

There's a set of lights where the road converges and there's good forward vision.

Would any current or ex traffic officer on here ticket me for it - assuming I'm not riding like a cnut.

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[NeverRodeBefore]

I've not gone through the whole thread but many years ago, my Dad was crossing the moor's on his BSA and came across a line of standing traffic with solid white lines. My Dad stayed where he was in the queue and after a short time shuffling along, he saw there was a policeman ahead of the line as it turned out to be an accident. The policeman waved to my dad for him to come through. Dad wasn't sure he was waving at him and checked his rear in case he was blocking someone else, but the policeman continued to wave so Dad did as he was directed and left them all behind.

 

[wheelnut]

I think the main crux of the thread is the RTA’s definition of ‘stationary’. I’m pretty sure there hasn’t been a test case that has gone far enough to establish precedent so you do still stand a good chance of getting nicked for it*. You then have the choice of accepting the FPN or trying to argue the definition of ‘stationary’ with a magistrate. Pretty sure that isn’t going to go well. Arguing it was safe and reasonable isn’t a defence as the offence isn’t CD, the offence is crossing the solid white.

I’ve done it but don’t do it as a matter of course.

*my sister in law got done for it - approaching a closed level crossing passing stationary cars in empty offside lane to turn right into a side street.

 

[SBD]

Another case where it seems like an unnecessary level of pedantry. You’re allowed to cross the white lines to turn right. The HC doesn’t specify how far in advance of the turn.

My suspicion is that she wasn’t polite or the copper was being an arse.

 

[SBD]

i don’t get the hilarity.

Maybe I’m thick, so please explain what you would do if you are driving at a legal 30mph, and the lights go amber when you are, let’s say, 15m from them?

Any answers?

 

[snelly]

Any answers?

Adjust your approch in anticipation of the lights changing;; standard practice in a truck.

 

[Santa-2512]

Adjust your approch in anticipation of the lights changing;; standard practice in a truck.

Its what i was taught when i started to drive, and that was in a car

 

[Santa-2512]

Its what i was taught when i started to drive, and that was in a car still holds true today

 

[FatAl]

Most mornings when the traffic is stationary (or travelling at walking pace) on this stretch of road, I will cross the solid white line to overtake, as do just about all two wheeled vehicles.

There's a set of lights where the road converges and there's good forward vision.

Would any current or ex traffic officer on here ticket me for it - assuming I'm not riding like a cnut.

Google Maps

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www.google.com

I doubt I would give a ticket if the traffic was stationary, but if it was moving I possibly would. It depends on how 'riding like cnut' is defined. I don't think there's a dictionary definition, and we are having enough problems with 'stationary'. At the end of the day it's down to personal choice just as breaking the speed limit or parking on double yellows is.

To be honest I was more interested in the crime side than actual traffic stuff. I went on the motorcycle section to get off nights as it was affecting my health. I got a bollocking off our ChInsp for making too many arrests and not spending enough time dishing out tickets. I can't help it if every car full of scallies had drugs in, offensive weapons tucked under the seat, or the all the occupants had outstanding warrants for arrest. God, how I miss it

 

[SBD]

Its what i was taught when i started to drive, and that was in a car

Fair comment. And I guess we all do. Presuming you’re travelling at or suitably below the speed limit, you will “prepare to stop”, which may well improve your reaction time and distance, but do you actually slow down every time you see a green traffic light?

In any case, the facts remain. At any speed, your stop/go decision must take place some distance before the white line, if you are to stop without crossing it. And if you have passed that point, it’s safer to maintain your speed. And that’s what the amber is for.

 

[Wapping]

that would mean those in the que

Could well be Spanish.

 

[Santa-2512]

Fair comment. And I guess we all do. Presuming you’re travelling at or suitably below the speed limit, you will “prepare to stop”, which may well improve your reaction time and distance, but do you actually slow down every time you see a green traffic light?

In any case, the facts remain. At any speed, your stop/go decision must take place some distance before the white line, if you are to stop without crossing it. And if you have passed that point, it’s safer to maintain your speed. And that’s what the amber is for.

It's complex, but for me, yes

It might only be a slight adjustment to the speed, but the background process's are planning the outcomes


Commit
Stop
Escape

then its a constantly reviewed mental checklist , and things get added and removed

Distance to hazard
Speed (mine)
In front - whats in front of me, & what are they doing
Waiting Are there persons at the TL
Approaching (vehicles / people approaching the TL)
Behind (Whats my threats behind)
Bubble (What are the threats in my personal space)

and adjustments are made as required

So by the time i get to the point where i have to make the outcome decision, its only one of the first three

And at that stage it dosent change, i was taught that, as changing your decision is when the accident occurs

No doubt someone will be along to say its totally wrong and i should be doing x & Y ,

 

[richardbd]

i don’t get the hilarity.

Maybe I’m thick, so please explain what you would do if you are driving at a legal 30mph, and the lights go amber when you are, let’s say, 15m from them?

i don’t get the hilarity.

Maybe I’m thick, so please explain what you would do if you are driving at a legal 30mph, and the lights go amber when you are, let’s say, 15m from them?

You shouldn’t be going so quickly that you can’t stop if the light changes to amber.

 

[SBD]

You shouldn’t be going so quickly that you can’t stop if the light changes to amber.

View attachment 323495

You’re obviously struggling with the sums here.
Your reaction time is finite, and greater than no time at all.

If you are travelling at any speed at all, even 1mph (yes, I am being deliberately ridiculous) you will travel some distance before you start to brake, and it will take some further distance to stop. If the light changes when you are nearer to the white line than the sum of those distances, you will cross the white line. There is no alternative.

You may cross the white line trying to stop, or you might say “too late, keep going”. But you will cross the line.

The writers of the HC clearly recognise that fact. It is why traffic lights have an amber light.

 

[SBD]

It's complex, but for me, yes

It might only be a slight adjustment to the speed, but the background process's are planning the outcomes


Commit
Stop
Escape

then its a constantly reviewed mental checklist , and things get added and removed

Distance to hazard
Speed (mine)
In front - whats in front of me, & what are they doing
Waiting Are there persons at the TL
Approaching (vehicles / people approaching the TL)
Behind (Whats my threats behind)
Bubble (What are the threats in my personal space)

and adjustments are made as required

So by the time i get to the point where i have to make the outcome decision, its only one of the first three

And at that stage it dosent change, i was taught that, as changing your decision is when the accident occurs

No doubt someone will be along to say its totally wrong and i should be doing x & Y ,

Thank you, I believe we are on the same page philosophically. I recognise your greater experience.

I’m not sure I actually back off on approaching a green light but I certainly make a decision on the approach (which might have to change if something new appears) and then (normally) stick with it.

If I get stopped on the other side (of the lights!), I hope I’d be able to clearly articulate my reasoning and I hope the cop would see the logic. So far, so good…