Marcus' 1200GS replacement thread.....

[SilverFish]

I've always felt that if Honda stopped messing around with the Varadero and gave it:

a. A diet of about 30Kg
b. Took the engine up to about 100Hp

Then they would improve the handling (which IMHO gets a bit wobbly when you are tearing down the B roads) and give the engine a bit more pep, which is always a good thing.

On the plus side, the build quality is excellent - take a look if you havent seen one and then compare it alongside your GS...

I think for most it comes down to either looks or the GS appeal. I like the look of the Varadero, and enjoyed it whilst I had it, but I did hanker after the GS. I feel that that's probably more to do with marketing and image than to do with handling and speed.

Mike

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Can't really fauly your descision to get the Honda, it makes a great deal of objective sense

My problem (and whilst I'm speaking for myself here I suspect I'm not alone) is that that I buy bikes with 5% common sense and 95% my heart.

I've always owned quirky bikes and suspect I'm doomed to repeat that behaviour 'till I depart this mortal coil.

Every service, every break down, every great ride, every improvement I've made to my quirky bikes has drawn me closer to them, has cemented a relationship that's based on frustration, love, hate, admiration, misunderstanding and bruised knuckles (just like all the best human relationships ).

It's the intangibles such as this that make my heart beat a bit faster, what we like to call character.


I've also done some sensible calculations as to what I need from a form of transport, you know the sort of stuff; depreciation, servicing costs, fuel economy, reliability, blah, blah, blah................. I've followed my head with this one. I use it most days, work, Tesco's, visits to London to see my folks.........it's great, does everything (and more) that I want from it.

It's called a Ford Fiesta.

Doesn't make my heart beat any quicker though...............

Andres

 

[cookie]

Can't really fauly your descision to get the Honda, it makes a great deal of objective sense

My problem (and whilst I'm speaking for myself here I suspect I'm not alone) is that that I buy bikes with 5% common sense and 95% my heart.

I've always owned quirky bikes and suspect I'm doomed to repeat that behaviour 'till I depart this mortal coil.

Every service, every break down, every great ride, every improvement I've made to my quirky bikes has drawn me closer to them, has cemented a relationship that's based on frustration, love, hate, admiration, misunderstanding and bruised knuckles (just like all the best human relationships ).

It's the intangibles such as this that make my heart beat a bit faster, what we like to call character.

can't fault your thinking there either, i'm the same, but if my GS ever fecks me around to anything like the extent marcus' bike has, it's going

 

[BBB61]

OK here's a more useful comparison.
Cost new of a 1200GS to my specification is £11,330 from the BMW configurator thingy

Cost new of the Vara to my spec is 7,000 (includes ABS, heated grips, top box, 1st service, 2 years warranty)
That's 5k difference!

...

£11330 - £7000 = £4330

According to the Honda website, the cost of the Varadero with ABS is £7299.
The cost of the 1200GS with ABS is £9995. That's a difference of £2696. If you managed to get a good discount then good luck to you, but comparing your discounted price against the list price of a GS is meaningless.

 

[minkyhead]

So you are comparing the difference between a brand new GS and a 2002 Varadero? Which makes your comparison worthless.

tell that to me wallet bob
hell if theyd made the thing properly in the first place wed never be having this conversation




Again you are coming up with a meaningless comparison. You are looking at a 5 year old Varadero (which would lost most of its value due to depreciation before you got it) against a new bike, and then you have bought the Strom and split your mileage between the 2, and then tried to compare the value of both your current bikes, with a lower annual mileage, against what you think your GS might have been worth if it had covered the same mileage that you have covered on the Vara and the Strom. Your comparison renders your conclusions worthless.

why worthless ..thats what happened ...i argue im still playing with the same bike fund i invested in the gs am i not ???
and compairing sevicing and depreciation over the same period with the same money ????
its not the be all and end all but the savings are a neat by product from a decision i feel i was forced to make

 

[GSmonkey]

....buy bikes with 5% common sense and 95% my heart.

You've hit the nail on the head. People wouldn't buy a new GS for any other reason, as they don't make sence.

Buy with your head, you'd get a Honda Dullville (if you don't leave the tarmac) every time.

 

[minkyhead]

Can't really fauly your descision to get the Honda, it makes a great deal of objective sense

My problem (and whilst I'm speaking for myself here I suspect I'm not alone) is that that I buy bikes with 5% common sense and 95% my heart.

I've always owned quirky bikes and suspect I'm doomed to repeat that behaviour 'till I depart this mortal coil.
Every service, every break down, every great ride, every improvement I've made to my quirky bikes has drawn me closer to them, has cemented a relationship that's based on frustration, love, hate, admiration, misunderstanding and bruised knuckles (just like all the best human relationships ).

It's the intangibles such as this that make my heart beat a bit faster, what we like to call character.


I've also done some sensible calculations as to what I need from a form of transport, you know the sort of stuff; depreciation, servicing costs, fuel economy, reliability, blah, blah, blah................. I've followed my head with this one. I use it most days, work, Tesco's, visits to London to see my folks.........it's great, does everything (and more) that I want from it.

It's called a Ford Fiesta.

Doesn't make my heart beat any quicker though...............

Andres

i think theres a lot of sense in what your saying ...each bike has its owm personality ....there are different strenghths in each machine ..they all have their strengths and weaknesses ...their own personality ..no denying the gs has that and i really did like it ....but it didnt like me back

i enjoyed all the bikes ive had and each have a lot going for them
if i could mix the ride and build quality of the honda with the noise and aggresion of the strom engine [best of the three ]...with the haipin ability of the gs we would all be in clover
personality is somthing that you get to know after owning them and each most definatly have there own .....


hand on heart no sour grapes or bullshit ....the vee strom is the one i would choose now out of the three ...its won me over ..it has grown on me more and more ..it vibrates a little revs harder charges harder ...ive liberated the engine ..altered the supension improved it added things and never needed to plug it into anything to do so and is[ or feels] very much less stressed on the long haul [90 and above ] ....and i trust it ..ican service it ...... and understand it better
......makes my heart beat faster than the others and still manages to tick most of the boxes in between ...its being able to be hands on that makes me bond with it so much better ...


sorry outto .... but the breakdowns aint going to make me bond with anything ...

 

[Twotter]

To Twotter.....difficult to say at this stage. The handling is certainly a bit more "ponderous" and I havn't got the experience under my belt to chuck it about with aplomb the way I could with the GS with 4 years of daily riding under my belt.

Ta & please pardon my impatience

Could be a test ride coming in the near future

 

[Jon P]

Forget all the number crunching..............what bike do you really want?

I started with an 800 GS in 1990 and have had an example of all of them since then - currently got a 1200GSA and it's great. To me they are superb bikes, do everything.......one up, two up, touring, luggage, good weather, bad weather, mountain pass scratching, motorways, long rides, short rides. They used to be a rare site in the early days (and I liked that!) they seem everywhere now and sure they have improved with each change (though I still have fond memories of my 800 - anyone know where J473 UFL is???).

My dad bought the Honda because it was cheap - and it was cheap - OK as a big bike but not the fun of the GS. My mate across the street has the KTM and we toured Maine several times last year and road to the Mid West and the conclusion is exactly what the reviews say - KTM better off road, BMW better on but both still big bikes.

Ignore the warranty / problems published on the furums......besides if you look you'll see that all the other bikes have the same 'on-line' concerns.

So, buy the bike YOU WANT..............and don't forget to enjoy it

 

[BBB61]

why worthless ..thats what happened ...i argue im still playing with the same bike fund i invested in the gs am i not ???
and compairing sevicing and depreciation over the same period with the same money ????
its not the be all and end all but the savings are a neat by product from a decision i feel i was forced to make

You might be playing with the same cash, but you are comparing a brand new machine and its initial level of depreciation, against a much older one that would have gone through the initial big hit a long time ago. The depreciation curve on the Honda has settled down considerably.Hence the reason why your comparison is worthless. If you had sold the GS and then bought a brand new Varadero and compared the depreciation then that would have been a proper comparison.

Just out of interest, how much did you lose on the GS when you sold it?

 

[Twotter]

It seems to me that the main reason for these guys changing their bikes is one of reliability rather than financial, that just appears to be a bonus for them

 

[marcus]

£11330 - £7000 = £4330

According to the Honda website, the cost of the Varadero with ABS is £7299.
The cost of the 1200GS with ABS is £9995. That's a difference of £2696. If you managed to get a good discount then good luck to you, but comparing your discounted price against the list price of a GS is meaningless.

Bob, Sorry mate you are talking TOSH.

THe comparision is valid.
It is impossible to get discounts from BMW (unless, like me, they sold you a complete utter lemon piece of unreliable self-destructing friday-afternoon slop for a bike and then had to give you a new bike for next to nowt a year later to make up for it.....invoice showing "dealer discount" from BMW being as rare as rocking horse dropping)

The new BMW at my spec costs what I said it costs.
The new Honda at my spec costs what I said it costs - the fact that I got a discount from the dealer does not remove in any way shape or form the the validity of the comparison.

You appear to be inferring that the comparison would only be valid if I paid full list price, which is just plain daft. If the dealer offers discounts on new kit
then that's the deal and that's part of the buying decision.

So I certainly won't be shelling out on a new 08 or 09 GS, that's pretty much certain.....

RELIABILITY is one of the key buying criteria for me, and BMW has never met this criteria.....(at least since I had my 98 R850R)

 

[BBB61]

Bob, Sorry mate you are talking TOSH.

THe comparision is valid.

Whatever

It is impossible to get discounts from BMW (unless, like me, they sold you a complete utter lemon piece of unreliable self-destructing friday-afternoon slop for a bike and then had to give you a new bike for next to nowt a year later to make up for it.....invoice showing "dealer discount" from BMW being as rare as rocking horse dropping)

And you can say that with absolute certainty? Gosh, how did I manage to get a discount on my K1200S then??

The new BMW at my spec costs what I said it costs.
The new Honda at my spec costs what I said it costs - the fact that I got a discount from the dealer does not remove in any way shape or form the the validity of the comparison.

If that was the price that everyone could get it for then your comparsion would be worthwhile, but for now it's, how did you put it, a load of tosh!

 

[marcus]

Whatever
And you can say that with absolute certainty? Gosh, how did I manage to get a discount on my K1200S then??
If that was the price that everyone could get it for then your comparsion would be worthwhile, but for now it's, how did you put it, a load of tosh!

Sometimes I wonder why you bother posting.... *
Comparing a new Varadero to a new 1200GS is invalid because I got a discount of a few hundred quid?
Get a grip Bob...... that's at the very least a fatuous opinion.

Maybe I should have done a comparison against a Toyota Yaris instead. That tools up at the same list price as a 1200GS so would be a valid comparison would it? (only minor sarcasm intended)

No it wouldn't obviously, but comparing two new bikes with similar target markets (one costing a lot more than t'other, one with more of a history of breaking down than t'other ) seems perfectly sensible and valid way of thinking to me (only slight condescention intended

And yes, I know for absolute certain as undeniable indisputable statistical fact that new vehicle discounts from BMW are as rare as rocking horse sh1t, thanks. (slightly more sarcasm intended)

* and why I bother replying to inanity...but that's enough for today, methinks. (looks upwards and sighs......
We can agree to disagree. Bothers me not......

 

[Twotter]

...* and why I bother replying to inanity...but that's enough for today, methinks.

Quite right, now go and get some miles under those shiny new wheels

 

[minkyhead]

You might be playing with the same cash, but you are comparing a brand new machine and its initial level of depreciation, against a much older one that would have gone through the initial big hit a long time ago. The depreciation curve on the Honda has settled down considerably.Hence the reason why your comparison is worthless. If you had sold the GS and then bought a brand new Varadero and compared the depreciation then that would have been a proper comparison.

Just out of interest, how much did you lose on the GS when you sold it?

gives us somthing to talk about while its snowing .....

take your point bob you can look at it either way methinks .... i think the moral of the tale is i must have been mad to buy a new bike in the first place

with the discounts thing you argue with marcus you must know that bmw very rarly do much on the price of a gs ...
surly you realise nobody in there right mind ever pays full list for a jap bike ..they are very much cheaper to buy new than list
a simple look in the mcn classifieds will confirm this and its hard to deny ...

in answer to your question i paid 10250 for the 1st gs had it 9 months and then refused to ride it [bralke failure throttle jamming after a stand off i had to pay 1400 quid towards a new bike ....three months later [another breakdown fual pump ...yawn ]] i sold it for 8700
so i supose it cost me 2950 for 12 months ....or a very reasonable 600 quid per breakdown

consider the link to this mcn advert..... and argue ...pre reg 2 mile 24months warranty 5600 quid http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikesforsale/searchresults/detail/?R=NXGN-1452289&mfy=

 

[minkyhead]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikesforsale/searchresults/detail/?R=NXGN-213647&mfy= knock another grand off for 900miles starts to make alot of sense....
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikesforsale/searchresults/detail/?R=NXGN-213647&mfy=

 

[Tricky]

My friends V Strom in the French Alps last September.

A very underated machine and a match for a GS on the road.

Just lacks a little bit of the X factor IMO

 

[minkyhead]

My friends V Strom in the French Alps last September.

A very underated machine and a match for a GS on the road.

Just lacks a little bit of the X factor IMO

mmmm dunno on the road its got a hell of a lot going for it

makes me smile ,,,,,,


faster than henrys ex police pan in the tight stuff anyway ......

poor henry binned it on the way to the ferry on the meandering aliston road 686
injuries ....badly nettled face banged up knee

farmer sent him a text the day after ..............................
wanted to know when he was coming back to finish ploughing the feild

 

[BBB61]

Sometimes I wonder why you bother posting.... *
Comparing a new Varadero to a new 1200GS is invalid because I got a discount of a few hundred quid?
Get a grip Bob...... that's at the very least a fatuous opinion.


Maybe I should have done a comparison against a Toyota Yaris instead. That tools up at the same list price as a 1200GS so would be a valid comparison would it? (only minor sarcasm intended)



No it wouldn't obviously, but comparing two new bikes with similar target markets (one costing a lot more than t'other, one with more of a history of breaking down than t'other ) seems perfectly sensible and valid way of thinking to me (only slight condescention intended

And yes, I know for absolute certain as undeniable indisputable statistical fact that new vehicle discounts from BMW are as rare as rocking horse sh1t, thanks. (slightly more sarcasm intended)

* and why I bother replying to inanity...but that's enough for today, methinks. (looks upwards and sighs......
We can agree to disagree. Bothers me not......

When you have to resort to insults and sarcasm it shows that you don't have much of an argument in the first place.

As for comparisons, I notice the automotive press and the likes of Which tend to make comparisons based on list price, rather than using your shaky logic.