Final Drive woes - workable or replacement and if so: which?

NO!!!

As I said above GL4 - 5 Is NOT suitable

BUT however if you want to save a tenner for a litre of gear oil and FUBAR another FD? Go right on ahead !

Also a really good trick is not to use ultra thin fully synth but proper HGV Muck!

85W140 GL5 Hundred of bikes over here that I have serviced have that in their FDs

Failure rate was about every 25 to 30 K with 75W90 GL5 Fully synth

I started using the more viscose oil and basically I have not had a complaint of any sort of failure since! and that was in 10 years
Doc. You've got me worried. Unless what I'm about too say if somehow different from what you're saying.

I have been using Castrol 'Transmax' for about the last 3-4yrs. I have also used Comma 75/90. In that time I've done about 27-30k miles.

So far so good

But look at the image below (spec on the bottle of Transmax) - hope it's legible. It clearly states that it is suitable for applications requiring GL5, but also GL4. GL5 is 'backwards compatible' with GL4 requirements, but not vise versa.

So. Whilst I'm totally with your other posts above which match my own understanding, your above post flummoxes me.

Thoughts?

8c1c4965ae20ef1c52bb807702ac75dd.jpg


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Now that's an interesting bit of info, anyone else use the 85W140, I swap the oil out every year whether she likes it or not but with the 75W90 etc. Quick question would this be better in the 1200 gearbox as well as the FD?
The gear mesh and load in the gearbox is "different" and I never found any issues with the 75W 90 fully synth

With the "lighter" oil in the FD every visit was a fuzzy hedgehog speed sensor

Seemed to drop off considerably with the Heavier oil Maybe it was just going to happen anyway But I felt it was a good move
 
Doc. You've got me worried. Unless what I'm about too say if somehow different from what you're saying.

I have been using Castrol 'Transmax' for about the last 3-4yrs. I have also used Comma 75/90. I'm that time I've done about 27-30k miles.

So far so good

But look at the image below (spec on the bottle of Transmax) - hope it's legible. It clearly states that it is suitable for applications requiring GL5, but also GL4. GL5 is 'backwards compatible' with GL4 requirements, but not vise versa.

So. Whilst I'm totally with your other posts above which Mach my own understanding, your above post flummoxes me.

Thoughts?

8c1c4965ae20ef1c52bb807702ac75dd.jpg


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I can;t read it but some very big names in Bm circles Anton Largaider for one and Snowbum (Robert Fliescher) AND also our own departed Phil Hawksley were all very vocal about not using anything less than GL5 in the FD and Gearboxes of Dry clutch BMs

I don;t care what the Oil manufacturers say on a bottle I just look for GL5 and to be going for the lesser alternative will have pretty much the same effect as the OPs FD

What drives me COMPLETELY bonkers is that people would save a fiver and cost themselves a thousand quid !
 
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As previously mentioned replaced my final drive with a 2nd hand unit, all good but still an oil leak!! after 2nd inspection it looks like the drive shaft seal on the gearbox so OP when you sort yours replace this at the same time as we have to take off the unit again....

I am aware the dealer needed the full vin number to ocnfirm the exact build date as they made about 4 units in the year.
 
Preamble - I've had my GSA for almost a full year - I like to do all my own work wherever possible (yes, I follow guidance rather than winging it, no worries!) and while coming to grips with some of this particular GS's foibles (winglets could do with replacing but servicable, one grip needs replacing as original is kept together with literal foam tape....) I'm at a bit of an impasse with this one

So in Oct' last year, as it needed doing and I didn't want to do more than ride it home when I bought it, I needed to replace the drive boots - as both looked worse than a WW2 Gas Mask and you'd find more life in an Egyptian Mummy's social calendar if you catch my dfirt. Bought some nice red ones to go with the colour of the bike, whipped the FD off while at it just to get in properly to inspect, clean and appropriately lube up, as they should be. All went well, shaft is looking as good as the U.S based private eye namesake, etc.

Replaced FD oil while at it, because "why not" and peace of mind - also added a magnetic sump plug to both FD and engine oil drain because again, why not.
Now I've not had any issues since - and while (as expected) for a 15 y/o ride she has some corrosion going on so there was a the odd flake here/there, nothing worth worrying about which can't be fixed with some wire rubbing, sandpaper scrubbing and a lick of Hammerite (except the fuel strip which I'll come to sort another time as currently I just run on the odometer to know when to top up again).

Now to the problem: - I found out this Monday on a commute that things were categorically not OK in GS-land, noticed I could hear an odd sort of whirring/buzzing drone noise halfway to work, which as I got faster increased in pitch. I did pull over to do a visual but nothing stuck out and I've gotten used to some noises enough to not panic (i.e bumps and the centre stand clonking). I checked for wheel play, pondereed on it being an alternator belt issue (promptly ordered two, one to replace, one as spare) and plan to swap this out in the coming ~week when they arrive.

Thought nothing more on it until I was nearly home, as while the sound persisted, I then in the last 2 miles noticed "notchiness" to lower speeds and an unimstakably mechanical, physical "clonking" noise when engaging and loosening on/off the clutch and things just felt off (in conjunction with the still-present noise from earlier).

I whipped off the rear wheel, inspected calipers in case it was brake-related (not as far as I could tell, but cleaned down anyway and noted I'll also swap brake pads out in the next week anyway as a precuation and further peace of mind as they'll want doing by the next MOT) - but the big shocker was when I got to wondering about the FD.

I popped the ABS sensor for air, loosened the sump and.....no oil. I hadn't noticed any leakage previously (and this was while leaving her stationary for a week or two at times) and I have a tarmac forecourt - so while I like to think I'd have noticed it, given I like to give her a scrub and good hosing down it's entirely possible I violated the scene of the crime, so to speak.

Regardless, utterly beyond me how/when/where this happened - whether this was just a "slow leak" somehow, I don't know, as the new plug certainly didn't show signs of leaking when I swapped it out, it includes an o-ring to seal.....so maybe I've just got a secret, silent dribbler of a FD?

I also then found a collection of what was evidently metallic residue/collection on the magnetic plug and ABS sensor - not tons, but roughly 1-2mm of it on both, like a thin layer of metallic paint or somesuch - which I looked at like it was Satan's own glitter and frankly worried the sh*t out of me.

So I promptly flushed it out with some new oil, checked the shaft (all fine, seated properly) and cleaned/re-lubed it for good measure, refilled the oil and gave a test ride - much smoother, but there's still this other whining, based-on-speed noise still somewhat present which I've since decided sounds like it's from the front end of the bike - but the whole thing has me worried.

.....To the point I want to source or work out, at least, what I can do for my FD as far as replacement goes.

Having done some research, I know I need to find a matching ratio unit (I would rather, being frank, not balls about with changing ratio anyway) so that's fine - my query, however, is on if anyone knows if I have to stick to the K7 part I currently have (Reads as "K7/1 7712559-02") which goes with that year/model/period of bike (up to 2014 I think I've seen?), or if I can go for a newer one yet - which as a bonus should also have nice luxuries such as the drain, etc.

I need to whip the wheel off yet again to determine my own ratio (haven't yet been able to see as the stamp must be behind the wheel and like a twit I didn't check at the time I had the wheel off etc) - but I would absolutely love to know if A) I should even be riding it given I seem to have "gotten away with it" in terms of all bar the hopefully-just-belt-whinging noise and B) if replacing, what to look out for with a replacement in terms of compatability.

I've seen some good potential ones going for anything from ~£200 or so, some double/triple that (but unless there's a damn good reason why and I'm missing it I'll stick to what I know).

Absolutely peeved given I was planning on nipping on the ferry next week to hit France, but I'd rather say sod it, play it safe and see what the experienced noggins here come back with before I get 10ft outside Calais only to pull a stunt Tony Hawk would be proud of, but both unintentionally and at the cost of my damn bike which I've rather gotten fond of and bonded with blood, sweat, tears and copious amounts of both road tar and grease.
+1 for mikyboy, don't buy 2nd hand you could get the same or worst.
How much is a new one?
 
In this earlier bun fight of GL4 vs GL5 - I had never said one should use GL4, just that I had tried it and found it gave a far better gear change.

Putting it in wasn't intentional - the bike had, had its gearbox oil changed by a BMW dealer once. Once more by myself having bought the correct rip of Castrol stuff from my local BMW dealer. Whereupon I instantly found the BMW recco stuff made the gear change nasty, and terrible in cold weather. Giving a recalcitrant horrible change.

And worth noting when changing what came of the gearbox from BM servicing at about 22k miles, the fluid was a bit dirty, a few bits of metal, and some obvious greyness colouring of the fluid with metal content in the mix.

Then likely slightly beyond its next ideal service interval - I had a strange issue with what felt like 5 and 6 gear seizing up after doing 100 miles round the M25 - I was struggling to get out of higher gears or back into them... Oddly I forgot after parking up, and it behaved OK coming home. But I had already decided to buy some fluid at a local place close to home on the ride back and change it ASAP.

What came out was obviously the Castrol GL5 of exactly the expected quantity (I measured it) and it was just like last time - a bit dirty, a few tiny bits of metal, and some obvious greyness colouring the fluid with metal content in the mix. What I didn't notice was what I bought to refill was some budget £14 comma GL4 - whereupon I found its gear change was vastly easier, being much smoother, much lighter, and much more precise.... And it still operated almost normally in very cold weather for two further winters.

But after a certain person stated it must be GL5 in this post, it had got me worried - and as I recollect the posts from me in this thread was
1) to say I found it changed better on GL4 - not that we should use it
2) trying to shed light on the differences of GL4 and GL5, so I could try to glean what potential damage I might have done on my bike...

According to Castrol they use the same fluid in the bevel as they do the box. And magically with my rear bevel self-destructing at 40k miles - then finding its "good" second-hand replacement, noisy, leaking out of a seal, and outside spec on wheel wobble of its bearings at 22k - and then the mess on the drain bung of a third bevel from a 2021 R Ninety that’s only done 3 k miles - I'm not sure I like BMWs interpretation of metal they use for gears, or Castrol’s GL5 fluid.


current recco spec GL5 (for gearbox and bevels)

similar looking bottle but wrong spec GL4 (note vasly superior flow at 40C and low temps)

But as GL4 is wrong, it was budget fluid more as a test to see how much metal was inside the "seizing box". And as it being by far the best of three BM I have (vs mint 2019 10k mile K1600, and a mint 2011 GSA at 10k miles - both of which are duisgusting to ride and I wish I hadn't got them). I decided to buy more of the correct Castrol GL5 - especially as I found a local source at 25 quid rather than BMWs 50 quid pricing when I had to put some in the self destructing bevels recently.

Yesterday I changed the gearbox fluid for the correct stuff. Whereupon (at about 5 k miles) the budget great changing GL4 fluid came out looking like it was brand new - not a spec of dirt or metal in there whatsoever and the fluid dead clear. Then filling with recco BMW GL5 fluid, from the top link above, the gear change is now nasty stiff, awkward and I missed a gear within 1 mile of riding off - JUST BRILLIANT !!!!

note the spec BMW want us to use - "It is Castrol's prime recommendation for final drives in heavy commercial vehicles approved by MAN, Scania and ZF"
 
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Preamble - I've had my GSA for almost a full year - I like to do all my own work wherever possible (yes, I follow guidance rather than winging it, no worries!) and while coming to grips with some of this particular GS's foibles (winglets could do with replacing but servicable, one grip needs replacing as original is kept together with literal foam tape....) I'm at a bit of an impasse with this one

So in Oct' last year, as it needed doing and I didn't want to do more than ride it home when I bought it, I needed to replace the drive boots - as both looked worse than a WW2 Gas Mask and you'd find more life in an Egyptian Mummy's social calendar if you catch my dfirt. Bought some nice red ones to go with the colour of the bike, whipped the FD off while at it just to get in properly to inspect, clean and appropriately lube up, as they should be. All went well, shaft is looking as good as the U.S based private eye namesake, etc.

Replaced FD oil while at it, because "why not" and peace of mind - also added a magnetic sump plug to both FD and engine oil drain because again, why not.
Now I've not had any issues since - and while (as expected) for a 15 y/o ride she has some corrosion going on so there was a the odd flake here/there, nothing worth worrying about which can't be fixed with some wire rubbing, sandpaper scrubbing and a lick of Hammerite (except the fuel strip which I'll come to sort another time as currently I just run on the odometer to know when to top up again).

Now to the problem: - I found out this Monday on a commute that things were categorically not OK in GS-land, noticed I could hear an odd sort of whirring/buzzing drone noise halfway to work, which as I got faster increased in pitch. I did pull over to do a visual but nothing stuck out and I've gotten used to some noises enough to not panic (i.e bumps and the centre stand clonking). I checked for wheel play, pondereed on it being an alternator belt issue (promptly ordered two, one to replace, one as spare) and plan to swap this out in the coming ~week when they arrive.

Thought nothing more on it until I was nearly home, as while the sound persisted, I then in the last 2 miles noticed "notchiness" to lower speeds and an unimstakably mechanical, physical "clonking" noise when engaging and loosening on/off the clutch and things just felt off (in conjunction with the still-present noise from earlier).

I whipped off the rear wheel, inspected calipers in case it was brake-related (not as far as I could tell, but cleaned down anyway and noted I'll also swap brake pads out in the next week anyway as a precuation and further peace of mind as they'll want doing by the next MOT) - but the big shocker was when I got to wondering about the FD.

I popped the ABS sensor for air, loosened the sump and.....no oil. I hadn't noticed any leakage previously (and this was while leaving her stationary for a week or two at times) and I have a tarmac forecourt - so while I like to think I'd have noticed it, given I like to give her a scrub and good hosing down it's entirely possible I violated the scene of the crime, so to speak.

Regardless, utterly beyond me how/when/where this happened - whether this was just a "slow leak" somehow, I don't know, as the new plug certainly didn't show signs of leaking when I swapped it out, it includes an o-ring to seal.....so maybe I've just got a secret, silent dribbler of a FD?

I also then found a collection of what was evidently metallic residue/collection on the magnetic plug and ABS sensor - not tons, but roughly 1-2mm of it on both, like a thin layer of metallic paint or somesuch - which I looked at like it was Satan's own glitter and frankly worried the sh*t out of me.

So I promptly flushed it out with some new oil, checked the shaft (all fine, seated properly) and cleaned/re-lubed it for good measure, refilled the oil and gave a test ride - much smoother, but there's still this other whining, based-on-speed noise still somewhat present which I've since decided sounds like it's from the front end of the bike - but the whole thing has me worried.

.....To the point I want to source or work out, at least, what I can do for my FD as far as replacement goes.

Having done some research, I know I need to find a matching ratio unit (I would rather, being frank, not balls about with changing ratio anyway) so that's fine - my query, however, is on if anyone knows if I have to stick to the K7 part I currently have (Reads as "K7/1 7712559-02") which goes with that year/model/period of bike (up to 2014 I think I've seen?), or if I can go for a newer one yet - which as a bonus should also have nice luxuries such as the drain, etc.

I need to whip the wheel off yet again to determine my own ratio (haven't yet been able to see as the stamp must be behind the wheel and like a twit I didn't check at the time I had the wheel off etc) - but I would absolutely love to know if A) I should even be riding it given I seem to have "gotten away with it" in terms of all bar the hopefully-just-belt-whinging noise and B) if replacing, what to look out for with a replacement in terms of compatability.

I've seen some good potential ones going for anything from ~£200 or so, some double/triple that (but unless there's a damn good reason why and I'm missing it I'll stick to what I know).

Absolutely peeved given I was planning on nipping on the ferry next week to hit France, but I'd rather say sod it, play it safe and see what the experienced noggins here come back with before I get 10ft outside Calais only to pull a stunt Tony Hawk would be proud of, but both unintentionally and at the cost of my damn bike which I've rather gotten fond of and bonded with blood, sweat, tears and copious amounts of both road tar and grease.
Take it out on a run; find a quiet piece of rd then whip the clutch in and let it coast; this should tell you if it's running gear or engine related.
 
the gear change is now nasty stiff, awkward and I missed a gear within 1 mile of riding off
That's because you are a Hoofwanking Cockwomble!!!

Funny how the rest of Humanity can manage to ride the bikes with the GL5

And Dickbrain............ GL4 ~ GL5 is the Shear strength of the oil!!

Fuck all to do with the Lubrication!! DICK!!!
 
Thoughts?

8c1c4965ae20ef1c52bb807702ac75dd.jpg


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@Slipperyeel Me ole Mucka

"No, gear oil grade LL does not "exceed" GL5. While viscosity grades (like LL, 75W, 80W, etc.) describe how thick a gear oil is at different temperatures, GL-5 is a performance specification set by the American Petroleum Institute (API) that describes the oil's ability to withstand extreme pressure and shock loads. GL-5 oils are designed for hypoid gears in axles, which require high levels of extreme-pressure additives to prevent scoring and wear. GL-4 oils, on the other hand, have lower levels of these additives and are more suitable for non-hypoid gears like those found in most manual transmission"

From the big book of the American Petroleum Industry standards "API"

Note:

Most Manual Transmissions have Syncromesh, Basically Baulk rings, which are a brass slip clutch per gear mesh to enable a smoother meshing of the gears pins and grooves that actually lock the gears together, the additives for these Brass rings PLUS the lower "shear strength" of the GL4 oil is the issue when used in a BMW transmission / Final drive
 
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I found Lucas oil additive at the percentage indicated makes a big difference.
 
Chuck some bananas in it, that's what dodgy people did to quiten Ford rear diffs in the 80's...not sure where you get GL5 bannas though.
 
That's because you are a Hoofwanking Cockwomble!!!

Funny how the rest of Humanity can manage to ride the bikes with the GL5

And Dickbrain............ GL4 ~ GL5 is the Shear strength of the oil!!

Fuck all to do with the Lubrication!! DICK!!!


I think you should get a new job, editing ChatGPT output, to err...give it more of the human touch

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@Slipperyeel Me ole Mucka



From the big book of the American Petroleum Industry standards "API"

Note:

Most Manual Transmissions have Syncromesh, Basically Baulk rings, which are a brass slip clutch per gear mesh to enable a smoother meshing of the gears pins and grooves that actually lock the gears together, the additives for these Brass rings PLUS the lower "shear strength" of the GL4 oil is the issue when used in a BMW transmission / Final drive
at the risk of tempting fate, my FD is all good
About 15-18k miles on that stuff.


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at the risk of tempting fate, my FD is all good
About 15-18k miles on that stuff.


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Perhaps you treat it with a modicum of respect, not overload the bike, not Wring the neck out of it every ride and most likely not crunch gears every mile ??
 


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