MCN: Tiger 800 mauls BMW F650GS

[StumpyFingers]

I think it is about time these bike reviewers tested the bikes in the real world environment.
What is the bike like in everyday use?
Does it offer good value for money in running costs?
Any bike can be blasted up and down the Autobahn but how would that work in a country with a 70MPH speed limit?
Also our roads are not far off those found in the third world.
Potholes are everywhere.

 

[Sooty09]

In defense of Bike road testers they do occasionally give useful impartial informative reviews.
Bike mag have a long term test fleet, including a Kawasaki Versys. The tester did all sorts of different rides in all conditions over half a year and gave it a very good review. He was so complementary about the bike it prompted me to go get a test drive, it was so good to ride I chipped in my BMW R1150R there and then.
My point is you can get information from all sources, magazine tests, forums, word of mouth etc and finally make your own decision following a road test. Thats the benefit BMW and Triumph have over Honda etc, try before you buy.
The mags know the target client and just what he wants and how much he can read before becoming bored, just as top gear only show you how fast cars lap the track and cover almost no technical aspects. Look no further than the manufacturers own brochures, lots of abstract pictures but very little actual information. I have a 1976 BMW sales brochure in which it shows how to remove the wheels, a section of the engine and drive shaft, details of the frame tubes and how its welded together etc. The sales reps now have no idea when I ask similar questions.
The brochures are dumbed down, the road tests are deliberately writing flowery reviews, and worst of all some people fall for all this. We all know somebody who dose 1000m year and swap bikes, leathers and helmets every two years. The mags, test and brochures are all aimed at these people.

Make your own mind up, take a test ride.

 

[Wrigsby1]

It's a shame the road testers don't have to buy, service, live with long term and sell the bikes they test. Ownership is far, far more than an MCN test verdict...

 

[Trullion]

I agree. Whilst in my opinion MCN is the equivalent of The Sun and is written for people with a reading age of 8, in terms of content none of the motorcycle magazines writes meaningful tests of new bikes. In this respect they do not compare favourably with car magazines, which usually include useful information such as likely servicing costs, estimated depreciation over three years and fuel consumption figures, if only those that are legally required to be published. I suspect that the lack of information on medium-term running costs has to do with bikes being perceived as leisure vehicles (which the majority of new ones probably are).

Getting back to the original post, it seems to me that both Tigers are largely a copy of the 800 BMWs, even to the extent of mirroring the road-biased and off-road versions. They say that plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery. It seems to me that every new big traillie has knocked the mighty GS off its perch if road testers are to be believed. When one has gone round the world or racked up 100,000 miles then it might lay claim to the crown. Until then they remain untested. As the owner of a "proper" (Meriden) Tiger I wish them well, but my wallet is remaining closed for now. Anyway, there's a nice collection of moths hibernating in it.

 

[Dean]

Interesting but also a bit annoying road test of the new Tiger 800.

On the positive side, MCN is quite correct to position the standard Tiger 800 against the F650GS, and to position the Tiger 800XC against the F800GS.

As you can tell from the thread title, the outcome of the test is that the Tiger 800 wins. The reasoning isn't very scientific--it's because the exhaust sounds nicer and the engine is more powerful. The fact the F650GS is £499 cheaper seems to have no bearing.

Although I'm on my fourth BMW and second F650GS twin, I'm not blinded by loyalty and I will gladly conceed that the Tiger 800 is possibly the better bike, but not for the reasons identified by MCN who would really have liked the Tiger 800 to have a 17-in front wheel.

BMW made some deliberate product positioning decisions when it came to differentiating the F650/800GS against the R1200GS/GSA, and in differentiating the F6650GS against the F800GS.

Triumph hasn't made the same compromises. For example, the Tiger 800 has the height adjustable twin seats and the adjustable windscreen that the R1200GS has but the F650/800GS don't. Not that the MCN test made much of that.

Another plus point for the Tiger is that the speedo is digital which is a real plus point for me. I spend more time overseas than in the UK and it's a real positive to be able to switch the speedo and odometer to kilometers rather than squint at tiny characters on an analog speedo.

Fair points Tim I also think BMW cleverly made deliberate positioning decisions in differentiating between the F650GS and F800GS. The senior Test rider quoted "As soon as you plonk your Gore-tex-clad on the seat you know you're in for a different experience from the F650G unlike the BMW the suspension doesn't sink when you get on it"

I guess they had the headline written well before the first snow

They also mention in the weekly ragg that the tiger outclasses the BMW800cc F650GS and that the tiger takes it to another level.

why ? because triumph have done there homework and adressed the gripes or because it has more but not necessary BHP



Mind I knew fitting the ohlin on my bike was a good move

I think the word "Maul" was merely because that is what Tigers are supposed to do.

No No No there suposed to savage thats what Tigers do but maybe that was the headline if the sun was out and they could have got as they put it "full-lean peg-scraping action going on"

maybe there saving the headline for the XC800 vs F800GS. lets hope the suns out they can scrape the pegs a bit or sparks of some sliders

TRIUMPH TIGER MAULS BMW

I too have gone to the dark side. After a test ride of the 800XC I was sold on it.

Have now sold my 2010 ADV

Reasons,

The motor.
Size and weight.
Low down power.
Price.
Power as fast as a 12GS.
and to be honest I want a british bike to work.

Have seen on here today one comment saying that it lacks low down power and you have to keep changing gear and that all the power is at the top of the rev range, what a load of crap.

Maybe in the future I will be on a BMW again, but for now I want a british bike to be on top. That can't be a bad thing if it keeps some of our own in work.

Lets hope it does not bite me.

You might be ok with the bite it might have false teeth

but im sure its a good bike I can understand your reasons but surely a standard 12 is not so different in weight and has more, hell much more low down power.

I know its a good bike as ive said triumph do there homework. and a british bike yep , bached by a british mcn yep i can see that too

Funny how they didnt compare mpg and finish. I had a Triumph and many BMWs some people complain about BMW quality. My experience is that the finish on BMWs is far better than on Triumphs.JJH

Ive heard this before also

Errr, not quite. They compared like for like as in the entry level F650(800) GS with the entry level Tiger 800. The next comparison, which is the one I'm really waiting for is the F800GS vs Tiger 800XC. Yes, there is more of a difference between the two BMW models, but lets face it, the F650 is more for girls.

But its not a entry level tiger its got the same engine as the xc its just more road biased. It will be the better road bike theres no entry level about the 800 tiger

Hey its for both sexes like all bikes, but not for men with ego's bigger than them selves (which includes small men with normal Ego's and 800 girlies)

I agree. Whilst in my opinion MCN is the equivalent of The Sun and is written for people with a reading age of 8, in terms of content none of the motorcycle magazines writes meaningful tests of new bikes. In this respect they do not compare favourably with car magazines, which usually include useful information such as likely servicing costs, estimated depreciation over three years and fuel consumption figures, if only those that are legally required to be published. I suspect that the lack of information on medium-term running costs has to do with bikes being perceived as leisure vehicles (which the majority of new ones probably are).

Getting back to the original post, it seems to me that both Tigers are largely a copy of the 800 BMWs, even to the extent of mirroring the road-biased and off-road versions. They say that plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery. It seems to me that every new big traillie has knocked the mighty GS off its perch if road testers are to be believed. When one has gone round the world or racked up 100,000 miles then it might lay claim to the crown. Until then they remain untested. As the owner of a "proper" (Meriden) Tiger I wish them well, but my wallet is remaining closed for now. Anyway, there's a nice collection of moths hibernating in it.

I can agree with most of that and some realy good points but I'm sorry I like the Sun and MCN in small doses you can read them in a coffee break or just stare at the pictures. I dont think there suposed to be in depth gripping reads. also for forty 8 year olds

 

[Account removed]

Will answer my bit with, ride the Triumph and then compare it to a 1200, just sold a 2010 ADV for the Tiger. time will tell.

 

[Dean]

Will answer my bit with, ride the Triumph and then compare it to a 1200, just sold a 2010 ADV for the Tiger. time will tell.

I can under stand it comparing the 12GSA

but standard 12 surely facts is facts the 12 weighs 229 road ready fully fueled, the tiger xc 215 yep thats lighter

But the 12's BHP is 110 against the Xc's 95 bhp but the low down power, the grunt surely is the Torque which is King and the xc and road tiger has 58ftlb

compared to the 12 with about what 85ftlb

I can see why a lot of guys go from 12 to 8's biggest obviouse is cost difference, and I also get the british bike to triumph.

but surely they miss that low down power

BMW PAWS TIGER lifts leg releives its self and rides into the sun set
But good luck to all what ever you ride and want to ride mind, personaly i'm glad my heads not turned by all newer and or powerfull bikes. I would be upgrading every 6 months and be in a world of debt still good for sales though

 

[Account removed]

I can under stand it comparing the 12GSA

but standard 12 surely facts is facts the 12 weighs 229 road ready fully fueled, the tiger xc 215 yep thats lighter

But the 12's BHP is 110 against the Xc's 95 bhp but the low down power, the grunt surely is the Torque which is King and the xc and road tiger has 58ftlb

compared to the 12 with about what 85ftlb

I can see why a lot of guys go from 12 to 8's biggest obviouse is cost difference, and I also get the british bike to triumph.

but surely they miss that low down power

BMW PAWS TIGER lifts leg releives its self and rides into the sun set
But good luck to all what ever you ride and want to ride mind, personaly i'm glad my heads not turned by all newer and or powerfull bikes. I would be upgrading every 6 months and be in a world of debt still good for sales though

Puma,

On paper the Triumph has less torque than a 800GS but it how it makes it that maters, pls test ride (not asking you to buy one) the Triumph.

Then let me know your thoughts.

 

[Decster]

I think it is about time these bike reviewers tested the bikes in the real world environment.
.....

none of them live in the real world so not possible.

 

[Dean]

Puma,

On paper the Triumph has less torque than a 800GS but it how it makes it that maters, pls test ride (not asking you to buy one) the Triumph.

Then let me know your thoughts.

what i meant was the torgue from 12 to the 8 is surely a phenomenal trade down! wont you miss it??

Test Ride ?

No I cant do that theres no point. I will take your and other peoples word, your a experienced rider. what if i like it and want one and then the next time another gs clone arives I will want that to.

my position is I like my bike and it suits my needs ticks all the boxes, its smooth enough and fast enough. its good fun, I have spent thousands getting it how i want it. thoes things that they mentioned in the tiger8 vs F650gs screen, seat height , rorty exhaust, firmer ride.... All been addressed 71 BHP is fine, MPG outstanding. more tweaks on the cards and a wire wheel project in the pipe.

why change if it suits me and why test ride


So no thanks, i'm sure its a good bike triumph have done there homework and cloned the bmw 8 with tweaks to most of the gripes from this forum

 

[Account removed]

what i meant was the torgue from 12 to the 8 is surely a phenomenal trade down! wont you miss it??

Test Ride ?

No I cant do that theres no point. I will take your and other peoples word, your a experienced rider. what if i like it and want one and then the next time another gs clone arives I will want that to.

my position is I like my bike and it suits my needs ticks all the boxes, its smooth enough and fast enough. its good fun, I have spent thousands getting it how i want it. thoes things that they mentioned in the tiger8 vs F650gs screen, seat height , rorty exhaust, firmer ride.... All been addressed 71 BHP is fine, MPG outstanding. more tweaks on the cards and a wire wheel project in the pipe.

why change if it suits me and why test ride


So no thanks, i'm sure its a good bike triumph have done there homework and cloned the bmw 8 with tweaks to most of the gripes from this forum

No will not miss the torque, the triumph has a very strong motor.

 

[Davy F]

why test ride

Because it's fun ?

 

[Dean]

No will not miss the torque, the triumph has a very strong motor.

Well all the best with it I think its going to be a big seller

Because it's fun ?

Yeah Fun followed By "I Want" Not for me

 

[Vulpes]

I'm looking forward to seeing the Tiger in real life. After all it is a Triumph

 

[Deleted account 211028001]

My 20p
6 triumphs incl tiger 1050
All superb good finish as good as my GS12 ( yes let's not forget the front engine case rot and the spare fpc I feel obliged to carry)
Love my 12 does what it needs to do for my needs BUT tiger800 tempted because it's brilliant very tempted but waiting for the tiger 1200 before I jump ship

Try one

Oh and dealer quality try A1Moto York , superb even got my gs12 from them

 

[Wal2]

confusing comparison
" the triumph has bucketfulls of torque just where you need it"

Torque comparison

BMW 650--55ft/lbs @4500 rpm
Tiger 800--58ft/lbs @ 7850 rpm

not sure where i need my torque now

obviously the Tiger 800 is going to be a good bike, but why all the cheap sensationalism against other brands by MCN, what they really want is an 800 street triple

 

[UKDirtboy]

Totally Agree-real test this week?

Tom agree with most of your comments, think like daily rags they aimed to stir things up- which they have! Real test will be this week, if the Tiger is better quality then I could be a turn coat, time will tell. Cheers

Interesting but also a bit annoying road test of t

he new Tiger 800.

On the positive side, MCN is quite correct to position the standard Tiger 800 against the F650GS, and to position the Tiger 800XC against the F800GS.

As you can tell from the thread title, the outcome of the test is that the Tiger 800 wins. The reasoning isn't very scientific--it's because the exhaust sounds nicer and the engine is more powerful. The fact the F650GS is £499 cheaper seems to have no bearing.

Although I'm on my fourth BMW and second F650GS twin, I'm not blinded by loyalty and I will gladly conceed that the Tiger 800 is possibly the better bike, but not for the reasons identified by MCN who would really have liked the Tiger 800 to have a 17-in front wheel.

BMW made some deliberate product positioning decisions when it came to differentiating the F650/800GS against the R1200GS/GSA, and in differentiating the F6650GS against the F800GS.

Triumph hasn't made the same compromises. For example, the Tiger 800 has the height adjustable twin seats and the adjustable windscreen that the R1200GS has but the F650/800GS don't. Not that the MCN test made much of that.

Another plus point for the Tiger is that the speedo is digital which is a real plus point for me. I spend more time overseas than in the UK and it's a real positive to be able to switch the speedo and odometer to kilometers rather than squint at tiny characters on an analog speedo.

 

[ARMA]

The Tiger is another example of adventure bikes going in the wrong direction. This is a poorly conceived machine designed by a company with an inept attitude to building motorcycles and a history of misplaced blind emulation of other brands.

The figures of the engine show that it's ideally suited to the owner who will use it occasionally for bragging runs to the coffee shop at weekends and will never see the rain. Of course, that's the target market now. Real adventure riders don't buy expensive new bikes on credit, we buy proven, simple, useful machines from second hand adverts and spend months preparing them by stripping off anything with "made in china" written on it.

There is a book, "how to build the ultimate adventure bike", it uses the F650gs single and X-challenge as case studies, not complicated twins or triples with poor histories of reliability. I've had a few Triumphs (5 including the Sprint RS factory prototype as I was a big fan of Triumph at the time) but they have been generally poorly built and tend to break down a lot. They are horribly thirsty and notoriously awkward.

I had an 01 Daytona, they modified the design to go with a DSSA to emulate the R1 but the rear unit was just borrowed from the 600. Triumph do that a lot, they borrow bits and pieces and make them fit. A powerful engine does not make a good adventure bike and in fact this engine is too powerful by many measures to be really useful. It seems to me to be squarely aimed at people who will never go offroad or really use this bike for what they market it as being capable of.

Triumph abandoned the off-road market in 01 when they stiffened the suspension of the 955i Tiger and gave it cast wheels. Probably a shrewd move, it helped their sales and the Tiger was no dirt plugger anyway. This bike just leaves me cold. I see it for what it is. It's a toy, a bike appealing to a market share. It's not really engineered to be capable, it's built to be manufactured as cheap as possible and sold as widely as possible. Most bikes are, I concede that. The F800gs is another example. It came close but dogged with reliability and build quality issues it's not really suited as a RTW capable bike.

Comparing them in this article is probably fair but they've not been tested by adventure riders or for them. This article suggest that adventure is just the latest marketing trend made fashionable by two likable idiots on big boxers.

I guess I just don't trust Triumph but my faith in BMW is sorely knocked too. I have had an R1200gs and F800gs and wouldn't trust either for traveling. I considered the old Tiger (owned one for 10 days and sold it in disgust) but it's not capable. I have a BMW now but I wouldn't buy another trendy machine. If it's available in a choice of flashy colours, expensive enough to require credit, has a new engine configuration, variable anything anywhere, any electronic gadget that does the work of a knob, exhaust pipes under the engine, plastic on the sides moulded into the tank, more power than competitors which is a sales bonus or if the magazines rave about it then I know it's not for me. When the companies start building solid reliable machines capable of hundred of thousands of miles I'll listen. I'm a lousy consumer and I plan to stay that way.

 

[v8legend]

I'm still thinking about this bike, but not quite as keen as I was before the bike show.

I went to the official launch last week at 'On Yer Triumph' Aston Clinton.

I have to say, the bike looks great they've clearly targetted the F800GS well. I also spoke to a couple of people who have ridden it already, apparently the motor is a stormer.

I'm putting my test off until they're fully run-in and the weather is better. Perhaps I'll change my mind?

My only real issue is the rear footpegs and screen/clock mounts. The rear footpegs stick out quite a lot, and look really vulnerable. The screen/clock mounts are also mounted straight to the frame, no subframe.

I remember well when my old F650GS jumped off the centre stand, resulting in about £600 worth of damage. The clock subframe and tank panels were damaged which I thought was expensive enough. On the Tiger 800 the clocks etc are mounted straight to the frame. A simple spill could result in a write-off.

There has been a well documented example on here of an F800GS sliding down the road, and catching the rear pegs. Quite expensive for a new sub-frame, but atleast they're not part of the frame, which would again probably result in a write-off.

I'll probably eat these words in a few months when I ride one, and conclude that I'll never drop it anyway.

 

[pnewm]

Spot on! When I saw the size of the Tiger's fuel tank I knew it wouldn't be the one for me ... and anyone remember the recent warranty refusal for wheel finish going off on a Bonnie after just a few rides - if the bike hadn't been washed & dried after EVERY ride. Rubbish. BMW are keeping my business.