My bikes not right?????
- Thread starter RPMDAKAR
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please accept my sympathy for your lack of mechanical sympathy.
My return home was not a vast distance, the oil level was checked as a matter of course the next day when the symptoms manifested itself. Please give me some credit here guys & gals. I can state quite categorically that the machine had oil in it when returned to me after the service, it didn't burn or leak oil on the return journey. Why would I drain 60 miles old new oil and run my bike? An enigma indeed?
So, was your bike transformed or not after the service?
Did the engine ruin itself whike sat in your garage overnight.
Still does not add up
Sorry I just dont get this
The bike seems to have suffered from being run with no or little oil and was fine and dandy (transformed even) when you rode it home from the service which clearly suggests it had oil in it does it not ?
Yet the next day it was a bag of spanners and again the only failing seems to be as a result of the bike having been run with little or no oil !
I am by no means a mechanical whiz indeed I am the total opposite but to me it seems that if there was oil in the bike it has not been circulated from wherever it hides to wherever it was needed. Why that would be is beyond me but I am fascinated and would like to know what the cause is or actually what went wrong
The bike seems to have suffered from being run with no or little oil and was fine and dandy (transformed even) when you rode it home from the service which clearly suggests it had oil in it does it not ?
Yet the next day it was a bag of spanners and again the only failing seems to be as a result of the bike having been run with little or no oil !
I am by no means a mechanical whiz indeed I am the total opposite but to me it seems that if there was oil in the bike it has not been circulated from wherever it hides to wherever it was needed. Why that would be is beyond me but I am fascinated and would like to know what the cause is or actually what went wrong
Has Mikeyboy checked the oil pump and oil pressure relief valve yet? Oil pump rotors free to turn and not worn/scored?? Oil pump drive chain not broken. Oil pump pickup not blocked ?? Anything blocking the (new) oil filter ?? Anything else found ??
If the bike seemed to run okay between the dealers and your home, and had a normal oil level in the sump then perhaps the damage was done on the ride home but you just didn't hear it at idle before turning off, then the mornings restart without earplugs revealed all ??
I presume that the rebuilt engine will have an oil pressure gauge attached during its first start up ??
If the bike seemed to run okay between the dealers and your home, and had a normal oil level in the sump then perhaps the damage was done on the ride home but you just didn't hear it at idle before turning off, then the mornings restart without earplugs revealed all ??
I presume that the rebuilt engine will have an oil pressure gauge attached during its first start up ??
Speaking as an old plumber is it possible that the oil stopped circulating as a result of air lock or cavitating etc. I have no knowledge of these specific bikes
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The rest of the motor is perfect
flatdog
Registered user
Your photos of the damage bring to mind that in a previous life, I was part of a team faultfinding a batch of prototype 6 cylinder diesel engines that failed very shortly after being fitted to customers machines for them to test/assess.
These engines were put on test beds prior to leaving the factory. (they were prototypes so we had analyse every aspect of the failures to determine source) and ran them through the torque range from cold then shut them down after 4 cycles. Maybe 4 mins max each. All passed and went into dispatch.
The failures were all bottom end bearings, mains and big ends, they all showed signs of wear but no sign of overheating (blueing). pretty much like yours, Top ends and all other oil lubed components were almost as new.
Our investigation found that the oil filler guy, who's job it was to pre select the amount of oil for the engine type was passing his station. be it
2/3/4 or 6 cylinder, dependent on size, a different qty was delivered to sump. He had wrongly assumed due to the size that these new engines were 3 cylinder so had selected the correct qty for that engine and not the new 6 cylinder.
Meaning there was enough oil sloshing around in the sump due to being splashed by the rotating con rods, enough to splash feed the oil pump pick up but not enough to lube the crank properly so keeping the crank cool enough from friction but not lubed enough to stop the white metal wear..
The top ends were all fine because of the liberal amount of lubrication used during assembly and being filled through the rocker covers.
The quality control guy in dispacth checked the oils levels and very helpfully corrected them prior to delivery and didn't realise they had been run in test.
Long story I know, but I'll agree with what's been said before, that engine was run dry during the service then filled correctly.
OP just didn't notice anything amiss as he was probably doing what we all do and that is assume it's better because of all the money just spent.
The only give away was the engines were 'not performing as they were meant to' One was returned for analysis and the rest is history
These engines were put on test beds prior to leaving the factory. (they were prototypes so we had analyse every aspect of the failures to determine source) and ran them through the torque range from cold then shut them down after 4 cycles. Maybe 4 mins max each. All passed and went into dispatch.
The failures were all bottom end bearings, mains and big ends, they all showed signs of wear but no sign of overheating (blueing). pretty much like yours, Top ends and all other oil lubed components were almost as new.
Our investigation found that the oil filler guy, who's job it was to pre select the amount of oil for the engine type was passing his station. be it
2/3/4 or 6 cylinder, dependent on size, a different qty was delivered to sump. He had wrongly assumed due to the size that these new engines were 3 cylinder so had selected the correct qty for that engine and not the new 6 cylinder.
Meaning there was enough oil sloshing around in the sump due to being splashed by the rotating con rods, enough to splash feed the oil pump pick up but not enough to lube the crank properly so keeping the crank cool enough from friction but not lubed enough to stop the white metal wear..
The top ends were all fine because of the liberal amount of lubrication used during assembly and being filled through the rocker covers.
The quality control guy in dispacth checked the oils levels and very helpfully corrected them prior to delivery and didn't realise they had been run in test.
Long story I know, but I'll agree with what's been said before, that engine was run dry during the service then filled correctly.
OP just didn't notice anything amiss as he was probably doing what we all do and that is assume it's better because of all the money just spent.
The only give away was the engines were 'not performing as they were meant to' One was returned for analysis and the rest is history
steveC
Registered user
diagnosis
I have followed this thread with interest but could not think of any reason for the problem. As someone commented something is not right but I dismissed running a engine with no oil. I mean who would be so careless !
Then it was mentioned about more than one working on the bike. Quote from Steptoe " recipe for fu_k ups " yes indeed.
Just like "flatdog" I have some years experience of diesel engines. (Marine prime movers) I think the suggestion it ran with no oil scenario fits the circumstances. Goodness knows what it sounded like but you can bet it was shut down quick.
Know doubt it was filled with oil just as quick. Perhaps only the technician
knows and he won't cough to it. Shame, difficult to prove and the owner picks up the bill.
The photo of the main bearing shells is the clincher.
I have followed this thread with interest but could not think of any reason for the problem. As someone commented something is not right but I dismissed running a engine with no oil. I mean who would be so careless !
Then it was mentioned about more than one working on the bike. Quote from Steptoe " recipe for fu_k ups " yes indeed.
Just like "flatdog" I have some years experience of diesel engines. (Marine prime movers) I think the suggestion it ran with no oil scenario fits the circumstances. Goodness knows what it sounded like but you can bet it was shut down quick.
Know doubt it was filled with oil just as quick. Perhaps only the technician
knows and he won't cough to it. Shame, difficult to prove and the owner picks up the bill.The photo of the main bearing shells is the clincher.
I never thought that for a moment that this post would throw up the amount of interest it has. Rather than jump to any conclusions, I think I have handled this in a fair and proper manner, no accusations have leveled at any one particular individual, just on the evidence and expertise displayed by Mike, I can only surmise that the damage was done while in the possession of the person who serviced it. I genuinely felt the bike was better, only to be informed that the balance shaft was out, for that I have no explanation. No ear plugs were worn at any time, it was just that the engine felt so wrong the next day, vibey and harsh, not like on the return home. Maybe as it was warm when I took it from the service, I honestly cannot say. I have been advised to contact the individual and inform him of the circumstances, but what good would that do? I do not want any further contact with him.
I shall not seek any recriminations from any individual over this episode and will happily take the machine back from Mikeyboy in the knowledge that I have a serviceable bike again, although my heart tells me that the confidence I had in it when purchased has been sorely dented. A very expensive lesson learned here, and with that in mind I really feel its time this was put to bed.
I shall not seek any recriminations from any individual over this episode and will happily take the machine back from Mikeyboy in the knowledge that I have a serviceable bike again, although my heart tells me that the confidence I had in it when purchased has been sorely dented. A very expensive lesson learned here, and with that in mind I really feel its time this was put to bed.
I never thought that for a moment that this post would throw up the amount of interest it has. Rather than jump to any conclusions, I think I have handled this in a fair and proper manner, no accusations have leveled at any one particular individual, just on the evidence and expertise displayed by Mike, I can only surmise that the damage was done while in the possession of the person who serviced it. I genuinely felt the bike was better, only to be informed that the balance shaft was out, for that I have no explanation. No ear plugs were worn at any time, it was just that the engine felt so wrong the next day, vibey and harsh, not like on the return home. Maybe as it was warm when I took it from the service, I honestly cannot say. I have been advised to contact the individual and inform him of the circumstances, but what good would that do? I do not want any further contact with him.
I shall not seek any recriminations from any individual over this episode and will happily take the machine back from Mikeyboy in the knowledge that I have a serviceable bike again, although my heart tells me that the confidence I had in it when purchased has been sorely dented. A very expensive lesson learned here, and with that in mind I really feel its time this was put to bed. Amen
I shall not seek any recriminations from any individual over this episode and will happily take the machine back from Mikeyboy in the knowledge that I have a serviceable bike again, although my heart tells me that the confidence I had in it when purchased has been sorely dented. A very expensive lesson learned here, and with that in mind I really feel its time this was put to bed. Amen
So be it
Bendy toy
Registered user
Back in my power industry days we had a large Cummins started without oil. It was the front engine on a Terex earth scraper, the driver realised there was a problem so shut it down immediately. We filled the sump and it seemed ok but within a few hours running time the bottom end was knocking. White metal bearings pick up without oil and then fail fully over a short period afterwards.
The workshop cockup theory makes sense but proving it is another task altogether.
The workshop cockup theory makes sense but proving it is another task altogether.
This one time.....at band camp........
Agree entireley
If all the options for oil starvation after you took the bike home have been exhausted, then no matter how difficult it is that you can prove the point, I still think you should get back to the blokes that did the service and let them know what probably happened.
At worst it won't change a thing however you have probably lost trust and will already be reconsidering getting your bikes serviced elsewhere. But at best it will make them realise that there's a problem with their processes and it might save another bloke the same grief you have gone through.
At worst it won't change a thing however you have probably lost trust and will already be reconsidering getting your bikes serviced elsewhere. But at best it will make them realise that there's a problem with their processes and it might save another bloke the same grief you have gone through.
With the legal system so keen to make money from prosecuting people for liable, slander et al, I am inclined to keep my suspicions or otherwise to myself.
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