My review of the 14 Ducati Multistrada vs 15 BMW R1200 GS
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Before i bought my 2014 ADV LC i tried the MS and the orange thing !
The MS is a hoot when you give it loads but that was my biggest issue with it as it seems to deliver most of its considerable oomph once you are already way above legal speeds
The Orange bastard is just mental when your wrists twists and is, as has been said, very engaging and fun to ride but you have to be on top of your game to make the most out of it all the time. I loved it for the few hours i had it but the thing that made my mind up was "which bike would i choose for a multi day 400 miles a day trip" and the toilet took the prize on a "in the real world" basis.
Now if i could afford to have both then the Orange thing would be in the garage along side the ADV as for single day trips it is unbeatable
The MS is a hoot when you give it loads but that was my biggest issue with it as it seems to deliver most of its considerable oomph once you are already way above legal speeds
The Orange bastard is just mental when your wrists twists and is, as has been said, very engaging and fun to ride but you have to be on top of your game to make the most out of it all the time. I loved it for the few hours i had it but the thing that made my mind up was "which bike would i choose for a multi day 400 miles a day trip" and the toilet took the prize on a "in the real world" basis.
Now if i could afford to have both then the Orange thing would be in the garage along side the ADV as for single day trips it is unbeatable
sampleman
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In my understanding the GS ist not the direct competitor of the Multstrada, because the Multstrada lacks offroad skills, and the luggage system is also considerably smaller. BMW has introduced the new S1000XR, which seems to be more focussed on the Ducati.
One interesting thing to know: German motorbike magazine "motorrad" perform long time tests since decades. Usually they test a bike over 50,000 kms and rate it for its operating cost, its durability, maintenance needs and resale value. According to this rating, Ducatis are the worst, while BMWs are slightly below average. Currently they have two GS models in their top-list, one tested back in 2005 and one tested just recently. Both suffered terrible technical breakdowns. The new watercooled model lost a ball bearing in the gearbox, causing the box to crash, which required the swap of gearbox and engine:-0. Nevertheless the new BMW ranked somewhere at the end of the second third of the list, because of its outstandingly good resale value and of the low operating cost. But: 2013 they had a Ducati Multistrada, which ranked better than both GS models and best of all Ducatis ever tested on the long run.
I personally do not like the Multistrada. I cannot explain why, it simply is not my type of bike. But it seems to be a good bike nevertheless.
Beste Grüße vom Sampleman und seinem Tatschpätt
One interesting thing to know: German motorbike magazine "motorrad" perform long time tests since decades. Usually they test a bike over 50,000 kms and rate it for its operating cost, its durability, maintenance needs and resale value. According to this rating, Ducatis are the worst, while BMWs are slightly below average. Currently they have two GS models in their top-list, one tested back in 2005 and one tested just recently. Both suffered terrible technical breakdowns. The new watercooled model lost a ball bearing in the gearbox, causing the box to crash, which required the swap of gearbox and engine:-0. Nevertheless the new BMW ranked somewhere at the end of the second third of the list, because of its outstandingly good resale value and of the low operating cost. But: 2013 they had a Ducati Multistrada, which ranked better than both GS models and best of all Ducatis ever tested on the long run.
I personally do not like the Multistrada. I cannot explain why, it simply is not my type of bike. But it seems to be a good bike nevertheless.
Beste Grüße vom Sampleman und seinem Tatschpätt
sampleman
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I suppose, Ding Dong is missing a cardanic shaft drive with the Ducati. There are quite a few people who think, that chain drive is not a decent solution for a travel enduro of that class.
Beste Grüße vom Sampleman und seinem Tatschpätt
So which bike was in 1st and 2nd place , I hazard a guess Yamaha XT1200 1st ?
i came to that conclusion too, but then i remembered most of my riding is not in fact 400 miles a day.
i seriously contemplated keeping my twin cam GSA as well, knowing it would be the tool to get me to the alps. good though it was in the twisties, i knew i'd be wanting the KTM when i got there so it had to go
edit: actually i don't agree about needing to be on top of your game to ride the KTM. it can bimble pretty well. it certainly bimbles a bit quicker than my TC but i'm not so sure about the WC which gets a bit of a move on itself.
Deleted account 211025001
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i came to that conclusion too, but then i remembered most of my riding is not in fact 400 miles a day.
i seriously contemplated keeping my twin cam GSA as well, knowing it would be the tool to get me to the alps. good though it was in the twisties, i knew i'd be wanting the KTM when i got there so it had to go
edit: actually i don't agree about needing to be on top of your game to ride the KTM. it can bimble pretty well. it certainly bimbles a bit quicker than my TC but i'm not so sure about the WC which gets a bit of a move on itself.
I couldn't have put any of that better, my thoughts exactly
Andres
Andres
i came to that conclusion too, but then i remembered most of my riding is not in fact 400 miles a day.
i seriously contemplated keeping my twin cam GSA as well, knowing it would be the tool to get me to the alps. good though it was in the twisties, i knew i'd be wanting the KTM when i got there so it had to go
edit: actually i don't agree about needing to be on top of your game to ride the KTM. it can bimble pretty well. it certainly bimbles a bit quicker than my TC but i'm not so sure about the WC which gets a bit of a move on itself.
I couldn't have put any of that better, my thoughts exactly
Andres
Andres
Bollocks !
Now you mention it I dont do too many huge trips myself ! I shall now go and have a cold bath and tell myself my choice was wise !
My point about being on top of your game is that the WC seems to "bimble" a bit quicker than the KTM and that to make long but fast progress the KTM takes a bit more ... whats the word .... ???
And yes i know you will tell me about it rewarding you for the effort and you get out what you put in etc which i fully accept as I do know just exactly the hooligan that the KTM is
Deleted account 211025001
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Sounds like you need an Orange test ride...................
Andres
I may well have a go on the 1290 super thingy when one is available but i will not be changing
the jury is still out on just how good the KTM is two up, long distance. mrs cookie has not spent more than 30 minutes on the back as yet. i can say that it's the only bike we've ever had where she needs to hang on 
ask me again when we get back from our spanish trip in october. couple of long days in that
ask me again when we get back from our spanish trip in october. couple of long days in that
I tested an MS yesterday. Didn't gel at all and I really wanted to. It just doesn't suit my riding style which is steady away bimbling. in all the gears I'd normally be in, it chugged and juddered. I'd have to drop two to have it running "right"
I then took a 1200Tiger Explorer out and for me, what a revelation. Brilliant engine and box. Perfect for me. I've a KTM1190 to try but it looks 90% sure I'll chop my 13 plate GSa for the triumph. No specific reason but as alluded to by someone else above, I sometimes just fancy a change ��
I then took a 1200Tiger Explorer out and for me, what a revelation. Brilliant engine and box. Perfect for me. I've a KTM1190 to try but it looks 90% sure I'll chop my 13 plate GSa for the triumph. No specific reason but as alluded to by someone else above, I sometimes just fancy a change ��
I am completely and utterly smitten with my 1190R, and got there via a twin cam GSA, and then a LC GS.
We'll always pitch one bike against another in the 'what's best' shoot out, and I guess it's important to remember that actually, we all want different things in a bike, so there isn't necessarily a 'best bike'.
In many ways my twin cam GSA was a bloody good bike, and possibly better that my LC. I sort of equated it to a Bentley continental, it was all-right for speed (but nothing special), a bit lardy down a country lane (had to be very disciplined in the whole corner set up, bike balance thing if you were going give it a hoon) but otherwise very solid underfoot, smooth and all day comfortable.
My purchase was always a compromise - a bike for us both that gave the missus everything she wanted too. For distance two up stuff it was pretty good. What I missed was solo performance.
The LC initially wooed me, but as time went by it became increasingly frustrating. It was pretty quick, sounded great with an after-market can on, had good ergonomics (so little things like cruise control, quality panniers, good head light, intergrated sat nav ... ), easy suspension setting at the flick of a button ....... but .... Oooooooo ....... God it started to niggle me.
The gear box is shite. And it is. I don't give a flying feck how many people come along and say 'but mine is fine ..' it is NOT a good gearbox. (and I had a 'good' one). The lighter fly wheel initially wooed me with its ability to spin up the motor quickly (I remember feeling 'wow' this engine just makes it's power so quickly) but that again became a niggle. That possibly played its part in the gearbox woes, and the light flighty feel of the motor was maybe a compromise too far - light and flighty can be good (CB 1000) but for me, the light motor didn't gel with the rest of the bike, the chassis, the overall weight, changing down coming into a bend or whatever ....
The KTM .... Oh goodness me, I am sooooo happy with it! The build quality seems superb. The paint (as Andres has already said) is thick (frame, engine casings, tank lacquer), the nuts bolts and general fastenings show absolutely no signs of corrosion.
The motor is just brilliant. A huge spread of torque with a mental top end when you want to dip your toe into it. Now we have a bike with proper performance! And you know ... that's important; if you've got it, you don't have to use it but it's there when you want to play. If you haven't got it ..... well you haven't got it!
The gear-box is, well it's what it should be! It's quiet, precise (I haven't missed a single gear, ever. The GS regularly had a blip hitting fifth for some reason), and as light as a feather. The clutch is also light, and completely and utterly reliable. For some reason the GS bite point used to move all over the place - pulling away at a jaunty angle on full lock, maybe on a gravel driveway?? It was a bloody pain in the arse! Clever 'active' bollox that's actually making life harder not easier.
The 1190 brakes have great modulation - they don't snatch, they just give you that initial bite and then firm it up with a completely smooth linear curve.
The suspension, now I've tweaked, re-tweaked, and got it dialled in, is just sublime. The bike is floating over those gnarly back B roads and the chassis just soaks up every ripple and patchy bit of road surface. And that means real drive ability and that maens a fecking quick bike down the lanes, because it's composed for brakes and acceleration.
So what the KTM gives you (me) is is what I'd call great modulation. The things on it that you can break down into specialist parts (the gear box, the power plant, the chassis, the transmission, the brakes .. ) all work together brilliantly. That means, that when you break down a journey into its 'component parts' (junctions, overtakes, roundabouts, corners ..) the bike stitches those things together brilliantly. And it does it better than the GS. You know those moments when you're whistling on at a bit of a lick, you brake ... firm it up ... squeeze it harder .... as you're braking blip ... blip ... down to third, feed out the clutch, let the bike settle ... feed in the gas .... front wheel starts to float ..... That's 'modulation'. That's brakes, suspension, chassis, gearbox ... all working together absolutely beautifully to take you from naughty speed, into your sticky hazard with utmost composure, and then out again. And that's when as you come out of that double bend, crested left hander, dip with a junction in it .... what ever ... that's when you either say to your self 'Christ that gear box is shite', 'Ooooo that fuelling is snatchy', 'Oooo that front end just doesn't talk to me' or 'feck me I just love this bike'.
Intergrated sat navs, good screens, good panniers, ... don't make a good bike for me. Yeah they're great, and the KTM's panniers are shite by comparison, but those good things are just fancy icing. A good bike is one that makes you smile inside yer helmet and go all warm and gooey. A good bike is something you bond with, you build a relationship with, it has a soul and you start to feel an emotional contact with it.
For me, the twin cam had that, but the LC didn't. And the 1190 has that in absolute feckin' bucket loads.
(Andres, I have fitted pillion foot rest lowering things - brilliant!!)
We'll always pitch one bike against another in the 'what's best' shoot out, and I guess it's important to remember that actually, we all want different things in a bike, so there isn't necessarily a 'best bike'.
In many ways my twin cam GSA was a bloody good bike, and possibly better that my LC. I sort of equated it to a Bentley continental, it was all-right for speed (but nothing special), a bit lardy down a country lane (had to be very disciplined in the whole corner set up, bike balance thing if you were going give it a hoon) but otherwise very solid underfoot, smooth and all day comfortable.
My purchase was always a compromise - a bike for us both that gave the missus everything she wanted too. For distance two up stuff it was pretty good. What I missed was solo performance.
The LC initially wooed me, but as time went by it became increasingly frustrating. It was pretty quick, sounded great with an after-market can on, had good ergonomics (so little things like cruise control, quality panniers, good head light, intergrated sat nav ... ), easy suspension setting at the flick of a button ....... but .... Oooooooo ....... God it started to niggle me.
The gear box is shite. And it is. I don't give a flying feck how many people come along and say 'but mine is fine ..' it is NOT a good gearbox. (and I had a 'good' one). The lighter fly wheel initially wooed me with its ability to spin up the motor quickly (I remember feeling 'wow' this engine just makes it's power so quickly) but that again became a niggle. That possibly played its part in the gearbox woes, and the light flighty feel of the motor was maybe a compromise too far - light and flighty can be good (CB 1000) but for me, the light motor didn't gel with the rest of the bike, the chassis, the overall weight, changing down coming into a bend or whatever ....
The KTM .... Oh goodness me, I am sooooo happy with it! The build quality seems superb. The paint (as Andres has already said) is thick (frame, engine casings, tank lacquer), the nuts bolts and general fastenings show absolutely no signs of corrosion.
The motor is just brilliant. A huge spread of torque with a mental top end when you want to dip your toe into it. Now we have a bike with proper performance! And you know ... that's important; if you've got it, you don't have to use it but it's there when you want to play. If you haven't got it ..... well you haven't got it!
The gear-box is, well it's what it should be! It's quiet, precise (I haven't missed a single gear, ever. The GS regularly had a blip hitting fifth for some reason), and as light as a feather. The clutch is also light, and completely and utterly reliable. For some reason the GS bite point used to move all over the place - pulling away at a jaunty angle on full lock, maybe on a gravel driveway?? It was a bloody pain in the arse! Clever 'active' bollox that's actually making life harder not easier.
The 1190 brakes have great modulation - they don't snatch, they just give you that initial bite and then firm it up with a completely smooth linear curve.
The suspension, now I've tweaked, re-tweaked, and got it dialled in, is just sublime. The bike is floating over those gnarly back B roads and the chassis just soaks up every ripple and patchy bit of road surface. And that means real drive ability and that maens a fecking quick bike down the lanes, because it's composed for brakes and acceleration.
So what the KTM gives you (me) is is what I'd call great modulation. The things on it that you can break down into specialist parts (the gear box, the power plant, the chassis, the transmission, the brakes .. ) all work together brilliantly. That means, that when you break down a journey into its 'component parts' (junctions, overtakes, roundabouts, corners ..) the bike stitches those things together brilliantly. And it does it better than the GS. You know those moments when you're whistling on at a bit of a lick, you brake ... firm it up ... squeeze it harder .... as you're braking blip ... blip ... down to third, feed out the clutch, let the bike settle ... feed in the gas .... front wheel starts to float ..... That's 'modulation'. That's brakes, suspension, chassis, gearbox ... all working together absolutely beautifully to take you from naughty speed, into your sticky hazard with utmost composure, and then out again. And that's when as you come out of that double bend, crested left hander, dip with a junction in it .... what ever ... that's when you either say to your self 'Christ that gear box is shite', 'Ooooo that fuelling is snatchy', 'Oooo that front end just doesn't talk to me' or 'feck me I just love this bike'.
Intergrated sat navs, good screens, good panniers, ... don't make a good bike for me. Yeah they're great, and the KTM's panniers are shite by comparison, but those good things are just fancy icing. A good bike is one that makes you smile inside yer helmet and go all warm and gooey. A good bike is something you bond with, you build a relationship with, it has a soul and you start to feel an emotional contact with it.
For me, the twin cam had that, but the LC didn't. And the 1190 has that in absolute feckin' bucket loads.
(Andres, I have fitted pillion foot rest lowering things - brilliant!!)
the jury is still out on just how good the KTM is two up, long distance. mrs cookie has not spent more than 30 minutes on the back as yet. i can say that it's the only bike we've ever had where she needs to hang on
ask me again when we get back from our spanish trip in october. couple of long days in that
Rosy is very happy. The top box back pad thing is 'better than the last one' (I think it sits on her spine in a better place), and today I've fitted some lower foot rest hangers. She's as happy as Larry ....
sampleman
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The last data I found were from Autumn 2014. Rank #1 is for the Honda CB 600 F. Two bikes share rank #2: Honda NC 700 s and (drum roll) Harley Davidson Road King.
The Yamaha Super Tenere is on position #7, the Ducati Multistrada holds rank #16, BMW R1200GS (liquid cooled) is #19 - although it crashed its gearbox and totalled the engine. The first R1200GS from 2004 ranks on an disappointing position #26. The bike was a desaster, it required six unscheduled stops at the workshop and had to be rescued from open road twice.
Can it get worse? Yes it can. Our Austrian friends really had a good time with the guys of "motorrad", who managed to get their KTM 690 SM on rank #32 (seven! unscheduled stops), the good old KTM 950 got rank #36 and the KTM RC8 deserved the honour of being tested as least reliable ever: ten unscheduled stops at the workshop, three breakdowns on open road, one crashed engine = rank #40. Congratulations!
Hope that helps.
Beste Grüße vom Sampleman und seinem Tatschpätt
Nearly ordered KTM Super Adventure for next month, but went with another GSA. As already implied is 'horses for courses'. For horse on my course would not go back to chain drive, so that ruled out the Austrian horse. Plus coming from the GS stable it has more pedigree. From first reviews of the new Orange bike, it seems a bit of a revelation, but will that honeymoon last 5 or 10 yrs down the bike line?
Short term I may have made wrong decision, long term confident I backed the wining horse?
Regards
Short term I may have made wrong decision, long term confident I backed the wining horse?
Regards
The 2015 GSA is a fantastic bike, and by far the best GS I've owned (I've had a few).
Some of the early LC bikes had their issues, but nearly two years in, and most of the niggles are gone.
Deleted account 251212001
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The LC is great, no flash in the pan just consistently good. When i test rode the LC, it was honestly a revelation compared to my twin cam GSA and i was instantly plotting how to get one. Its got enough of everything for me and the crispest gs gearchange to date, verging on jap like (not sure if i should mention that after the recent muppet thread)
I am completely and utterly smitten with my 1190R, and got there via a twin cam GSA, and then a LC GS.
We'll always pitch one bike against another in the 'what's best' shoot out, and I guess it's important to remember that actually, we all want different things in a bike, so there isn't necessarily a 'best bike'.
In many ways my twin cam GSA was a bloody good bike, and possibly better that my LC. I sort of equated it to a Bentley continental, it was all-right for speed (but nothing special), a bit lardy down a country lane (had to be very disciplined in the whole corner set up, bike balance thing if you were going give it a hoon) but otherwise very solid underfoot, smooth and all day comfortable.
My purchase was always a compromise - a bike for us both that gave the missus everything she wanted too. For distance two up stuff it was pretty good. What I missed was solo performance.
The LC initially wooed me, but as time went by it became increasingly frustrating. It was pretty quick, sounded great with an after-market can on, had good ergonomics (so little things like cruise control, quality panniers, good head light, intergrated sat nav ... ), easy suspension setting at the flick of a button ....... but .... Oooooooo ....... God it started to niggle me.
The gear box is shite. And it is. I don't give a flying feck how many people come along and say 'but mine is fine ..' it is NOT a good gearbox. (and I had a 'good' one). The lighter fly wheel initially wooed me with its ability to spin up the motor quickly (I remember feeling 'wow' this engine just makes it's power so quickly) but that again became a niggle. That possibly played its part in the gearbox woes, and the light flighty feel of the motor was maybe a compromise too far - light and flighty can be good (CB 1000) but for me, the light motor didn't gel with the rest of the bike, the chassis, the overall weight, changing down coming into a bend or whatever ....
The KTM .... Oh goodness me, I am sooooo happy with it! The build quality seems superb. The paint (as Andres has already said) is thick (frame, engine casings, tank lacquer), the nuts bolts and general fastenings show absolutely no signs of corrosion.
The motor is just brilliant. A huge spread of torque with a mental top end when you want to dip your toe into it. Now we have a bike with proper performance! And you know ... that's important; if you've got it, you don't have to use it but it's there when you want to play. If you haven't got it ..... well you haven't got it!
The gear-box is, well it's what it should be! It's quiet, precise (I haven't missed a single gear, ever. The GS regularly had a blip hitting fifth for some reason), and as light as a feather. The clutch is also light, and completely and utterly reliable. For some reason the GS bite point used to move all over the place - pulling away at a jaunty angle on full lock, maybe on a gravel driveway?? It was a bloody pain in the arse! Clever 'active' bollox that's actually making life harder not easier.
The 1190 brakes have great modulation - they don't snatch, they just give you that initial bite and then firm it up with a completely smooth linear curve.
The suspension, now I've tweaked, re-tweaked, and got it dialled in, is just sublime. The bike is floating over those gnarly back B roads and the chassis just soaks up every ripple and patchy bit of road surface. And that means real drive ability and that maens a fecking quick bike down the lanes, because it's composed for brakes and acceleration.
So what the KTM gives you (me) is is what I'd call great modulation. The things on it that you can break down into specialist parts (the gear box, the power plant, the chassis, the transmission, the brakes .. ) all work together brilliantly. That means, that when you break down a journey into its 'component parts' (junctions, overtakes, roundabouts, corners ..) the bike stitches those things together brilliantly. And it does it better than the GS. You know those moments when you're whistling on at a bit of a lick, you brake ... firm it up ... squeeze it harder .... as you're braking blip ... blip ... down to third, feed out the clutch, let the bike settle ... feed in the gas .... front wheel starts to float ..... That's 'modulation'. That's brakes, suspension, chassis, gearbox ... all working together absolutely beautifully to take you from naughty speed, into your sticky hazard with utmost composure, and then out again. And that's when as you come out of that double bend, crested left hander, dip with a junction in it .... what ever ... that's when you either say to your self 'Christ that gear box is shite', 'Ooooo that fuelling is snatchy', 'Oooo that front end just doesn't talk to me' or 'feck me I just love this bike'.
Intergrated sat navs, good screens, good panniers, ... don't make a good bike for me. Yeah they're great, and the KTM's panniers are shite by comparison, but those good things are just fancy icing. A good bike is one that makes you smile inside yer helmet and go all warm and gooey. A good bike is something you bond with, you build a relationship with, it has a soul and you start to feel an emotional contact with it.
For me, the twin cam had that, but the LC didn't. And the 1190 has that in absolute feckin' bucket loads.
(Andres, I have fitted pillion foot rest lowering things - brilliant!!)
Shame it's such an ugly looking bike !
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