New bike on its way

trebor said:
When used like that, no, it isn't obtrusive on the earlier versions, but I found it was not very good when setting off with it engaged. The newer versions are much better, you don't have to think about it when it us used.
Click to expand...

Can you not use it like that on the latest version ?
 
Onahi said:
Can you not use it like that on the latest version ?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are asking.
You can use it both ways on both versions, i.e. set off with it engaged or, use it as you do, pull the brake lever to dis-engage it before setting off.
However, on the earlier version, when setting off with it engaged, you had to give it loads of revs otherwise it could stall. I found one way round this was to give plenty of revs and release clutch till it just started to bite, then engage clutch again which, in most cases, released the brake. This was too much of a faff, it was easier to release it as you do. IMHO this made it pointless unless you were going to be stopped sometime on a steep hill, so I very rarely used it.
On this new bike I've used it a few times already, mainly when stopped at lights on a hill, when they go to green I just set off without thinking about it, it releases smoothly every time.
 
trebor said:
Not sure what you are asking.
You can use it both ways on both versions, i.e. set off with it engaged or, use it as you do, pull the brake lever to dis-engage it before setting off.
However, on the earlier version, when setting off with it engaged, you had to give it loads of revs otherwise it could stall. I found one way round this was to give plenty of revs and release clutch till it just started to bite, then engage clutch again which, in most cases, released the brake. This was too much of a faff, it was easier to release it as you do. IMHO this made it pointless unless you were going to be stopped sometime on a steep hill, so I very rarely used it.
On this new bike I've used it a few times already, mainly when stopped at lights on a hill, when they go to green I just set off without thinking about it, it releases smoothly every time.
Click to expand...

What I was asking.
Above it was claimed that the older bikes Hill hold control was intrusive and the new ones weren't ..... are you with me so far ?
I then asked how .......
I stated, that i pull up , for example at lights on a steep hill. and pull the front brake lever. Hill hold control is now activated. The lights then turn green, after a very long time, and an old man with a walking stick crossing. Anyway, I now pull the front brake lever (Hill hold is now deactivated) and pull away. There is absolutely nothing to it. No thought, No effort. Certainly not intrusive.
So, how is the new Hill hold control better ?
That was what I was asking .....
Comprendi ?
 
Onahi said:
What I was asking.
Above it was claimed that the older bikes Hill hold control was intrusive and the new ones weren't ..... are you with me so far ?
I then asked how .......
I stated, that i pull up , for example at lights on a steep hill. and pull the front brake lever. Hill hold control is now activated. The lights then turn green, after a very long time, and an old man with a walking stick crossing. Anyway, I now pull the front brake lever (Hill hold is now deactivated) and pull away. There is absolutely nothing to it. No thought, No effort. Certainly not intrusive.
So, how is the new Hill hold control better ?
That was what I was asking .....
Comprendi ?
Click to expand...

New hill start is no different when used as you describe and it can indeed be used that way. That's how I use it

I think the point is that if used without manually disengaging the brake, the newer system releases it more unobtrusively (less obtrusively?) than the previous version. I had it on my k1600 (2016) and it did require a good handful of throttle to stop it stalling before the system released the brakes. Fine if you wanted to make a sprightly departure but a bit unnerving if you needed to do a delicate start. I only regularly used mine at a security gate on an uphill slope, when it was easier to rummage through pockets for passes with both hands (and both feet on the floor).

I tried it on my new bike (2021 1250) just to see how it worked and it was indeed a much smoother process. But I'll still rarely use it and, when I do, release it manually.
 
Hill hold on the 2021 is vastly improved.
I had it on my 2017 Rallye and it was a bit like a sticky hand brake you had to ride through to get moving. The 2021 has more axis' on the IMU and it senses movement and input more. On mt GSA I have it set on auto (change in bike settings). Now when ever I am on an incline (either up or down) applying the brakes (even lightly) causes the green 'H' to appear and the brakes remain on when you release the lever. When it is time to move I can ride off without the slightest hint of resistance. It really is good and works on the subtlest slopes.
I'm very impressed with it.

Happy new bike day Eng.
 
Onahi said:
What I was asking.
Above it was claimed that the older bikes Hill hold control was intrusive and the new ones weren't ..... are you with me so far ?
I then asked how .......
I stated, that i pull up , for example at lights on a steep hill. and pull the front brake lever. Hill hold control is now activated. The lights then turn green, after a very long time, and an old man with a walking stick crossing. Anyway, I now pull the front brake lever (Hill hold is now deactivated) and pull away. There is absolutely nothing to it. No thought, No effort. Certainly not intrusive.
So, how is the new Hill hold control better ?
That was what I was asking .....
Comprendi ?
Click to expand...

I think I fully answered that earlier, that is why I wasn't sure what you were asking.
It is better because you no longer need to manually cancel the 'hold' you can just accelerate away, just like you can in any other vehicle that has 'Hill Hold' or automatic handbrake. If you tried that on the earlier version, without giving it excessive revs, it would likely stall.
 
Onahi said:
How is it obtrusive ?
Click to expand...

The 2018 version needed a gazillion revs to get it to release smoothly, easy to mis-judge it and get a brown trouser moment on uphill hairpin bends when fully loaded and two up - this is where you really need it to perform. Hopefully the new version is better in this respect.
 
Engineer said:
The 2018 version needed a gazillion revs to get it to release smoothly, easy to mis-judge it and get a brown trouser moment on uphill hairpin bends when fully loaded and two up - this is where you really need it to perform. Hopefully the new version is better in this respect.
Click to expand...

My 18 never needed any revs at all. I've said it so many times now:rolleyes:
 
Engineer said:
The 2018 version needed a gazillion revs to get it to release smoothly, easy to mis-judge it and get a brown trouser moment on uphill hairpin bends when fully loaded and two up - this is where you really need it to perform. Hopefully the new version is better in this respect.
Click to expand...

It is:D
 
Onahi said:
My 18 never needed any revs at all. I've said it so many times now:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I believe you - but mine wasn't like that so I was reluctant to trust it, so gave up with it - we shall see what the new one is like
 
Onahi said:
My 18 never needed any revs at all. I've said it so many times now:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You did not need to rev it because you disconnected HH prior to take off. Fair enough.

Now, imagine your bike is loaded, passenger and all. You have to stop when in a steep hill. If you now release the HH, the bike being stopped from moving downhill is now moved from HH holding the rear wheel to the frontbrake holding the front wheel. I'm not saying this is mission impossible, but on the 1250 you could keep the HH engaged and it will take off with not much effort, while on the 1200 your option would be to either disconnect the system and risk sliding backwards (since most of the weight in this senearo is on the rear wheel), or rev the engine in order to release the HH.

I understand that this is indeed possible even without HH, but the debate is about the improvement of the HH, not the riders skills.
 
I have it on my very late 2018 R1200GSA and it works as I would expect it to. That said, I am old school and just use the rear brake for hill starts.
 
GSMarky said:
Nice and clean lines with those colours. Wheels will be easier to clean than my gold spoked jobbies..

You're close by I think. I'm in Godmanchester.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that's why I chose this colour option, I had matt black spoked wheels on my 2018 bike and they were a pain to keep looking good.
I am originally from Brampton, used to frequent the Black Bull pub in Godmanchester back in the 70s :)
 
knutk said:
You did not need to rev it because you disconnected HH prior to take off. Fair enough.

Now, imagine your bike is loaded, passenger and all. You have to stop when in a steep hill. If you now release the HH, the bike being stopped from moving downhill is now moved from HH holding the rear wheel to the frontbrake holding the front wheel. I'm not saying this is mission impossible, but on the 1250 you could keep the HH engaged and it will take off with not much effort, while on the 1200 your option would be to either disconnect the system and risk sliding backwards (since most of the weight in this senearo is on the rear wheel), or rev the engine in order to release the HH.

I understand that this is indeed possible even without HH, but the debate is about the improvement of the HH, not the riders skills.
Click to expand...

Yes, you took the words out of my mouth, A little bit of rider skill. Not much. but a little....
 
I agree. Nothing beats good riding skills. That said it is nice to have and works seamlessly on my new GSA and as a result is a good addition.
Its Friday, just gone 5 so cheers all :beerjug:
 
Onahi said:
But you wouldn't notice any difference if you use it as I do (pulling the brake again)
Click to expand...

But to be fair there is not much point to a hill hold system if you have to manually disengage it to pull away. Absolutely your preference but not much use IMHO
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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