Official: 1200GS successor at INTERMOT, Oct 2

Grrrr, bogging phones!

Mike, I think I'm missing something?

I fully accept the new model will not be perfect. It can't be. Due to time/financial/competitive pressures a new model is launched when 'good enough'. Risk assessments are taken and compromises made. Even now there will be project teams working on improving the water pump, or whatever, that was not 'quite right' for the launch model and will be fitted to next years model. This is normal production engineering practice.

The bit I don't understand is you saying the best they can make is already designed and 'production ready' but won't be launched for six years.

Why would they do that?

It's early and I'm confused........

Andres
 
Because they can.

No manufacturer begins their next model once the outgoing one's sales begin to flag or when a competitor starts making inroads on sales. They have the next model on the drawing board while they are still finalising the launch of the one it is planned to eventually replace.

Do you believe that a manufacturer didn't know (for instance) that their product could produce an extra 10 bhp by simply altering the cam profile until some eureka moment at some point in the two years after the initial launch? Of course they didn't. They could have given owners that 10 bhp from day one.

Some things will be altered during early production owing to discoveries that the paint finish isn't robust enough or that a component is badly designed. However, they will knowingly sell something that is inferior so that they can stun us with the improvements. It's a marketing ploy.

BMW could have launched the R1200 models with the twin cam engine on day one. Instead they sold the bike with the old cam-in-head design. There's little or no argument that the TC R1200 is superior to the older version. We all (or should) recognise this. The choice then is to buy the new model or wait for the last iteration which will be the machine that could have been offered from day one.
 
Originally Posted by Fanum
What sort of fuckwit will buy a brand new, untested and massively changed new model straight out of the crate on day 1?

BMW test dummies and shallow 'gotttahavethelatestthing' fashionistas


The WC mk3 might be a good bike, after the 36 recalls, two model changes and their own 30 recalls each.

Buy a WC in it's first year?

More money than fecking sense.....don't come moaning here about how unreliable it is, how your poor little leggies got scalded by hot water or ask what sort of antifreeze you should put in, or you will get exactly what you deserve

Ha - funny man - for a moment there I thought you were the type without the money to buy a new one or you would have..............:bounce1

But seriously I suppose you have a valid point, albeit poetically put with "What sort of fuckwit......." but I suppose the world is full of such fuckwits as millions of people do buy NEW cars, bikes, hoovers, houses, washing machines, kettles, watches, phones, cd players, DVD players, tv`s, etc etc etc every day!

I guess there is a strong chance of things not being right, but hopefully a warranty will sort that out along with a leap of faith.

Nonetheless, and I respect everyones opinion and try to see the logic in it, I feel "What sort of fuckwit" might be considered only slightly concerning to us guys who have decided to buy one. But still, live and let live eh?
 
Fanum said:
What sort of fuckwit will buy a brand new, untested and massively changed new model straight out of the crate on day 1?

BMW test dummies and shallow 'gotttahavethelatestthing' fashionistas:blast


The WC mk3 might be a good bike, after the 36 recalls, two model changes and their own 30 recalls each.

Buy a WC in it's first year?

More money than fecking sense.....don't come moaning here about how unreliable it is, how your poor little leggies got scalded by hot water or ask what sort of antifreeze you should put in, or you will get exactly what you deserve :rob
Click to expand...

Mark Hooton, "this fuckwit" has some issues ands needs to be kept in a padded cell where they feed you by "choo choo"

Fanum, again, what is your issue mate...chill out and take a deap breath, life is not that bad you know....and i will be the first to get the NEW R12..GS when it arrives. why you ask...Beacause I Fu"king Can.....you fuc"kwit!!!
 
MikeP said:
Because they can.

No manufacturer begins their next model once the outgoing one's sales begin to flag or when a competitor starts making inroads on sales. They have the next model on the drawing board while they are still finalising the launch of the one it is planned to eventually replace.

Do you believe that a manufacturer didn't know (for instance) that their product could produce an extra 10 bhp by simply altering the cam profile until some eureka moment at some point in the two years after the initial launch? Of course they didn't. They could have given owners that 10 bhp from day one.

Some things will be altered during early production owing to discoveries that the paint finish isn't robust enough or that a component is badly designed. However, they will knowingly sell something that is inferior so that they can stun us with the improvements. It's a marketing ploy.

BMW could have launched the R1200 models with the twin cam engine on day one. Instead they sold the bike with the old cam-in-head design. There's little or no argument that the TC R1200 is superior to the older version. We all (or should) recognise this. The choice then is to buy the new model or wait for the last iteration which will be the machine that could have been offered from day one.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of that, as you say it's all to do with marketing at the end of the day.

I was just being pedantic ;) in so much as I don't see that they literally would have the 'next' generation designed and production ready for a launch in six years time...............

Yes I'm sure the twin cam was in development when the original R1200 was released but to imply it was production ready and could have been launched instead of the single cam is, I think, stretching things a bit far.

Andres
 
i must be naive.

i think that the manufacturers do generally make the best product they can, bearing in mind time/budget restraints.

obviously, by the time it's in production, mods and probably a replacement model are taking shape, it's a continuous process.
 
Fanum said:
What sort of fuckwit will buy a brand new, untested and massively changed new model straight out of the crate on day 1?

BMW test dummies and shallow 'gotttahavethelatestthing' fashionistas:blast


The WC mk3 might be a good bike, after the 36 recalls, two model changes and their own 30 recalls each.

Buy a WC in it's first year?

More money than fecking sense.....don't come moaning here about how unreliable it is, how your poor little leggies got scalded by hot water or ask what sort of antifreeze you should put in, or you will get exactly what you deserve :rob
Click to expand...

+1
That why my GSA is on order arriving next mouth (couldn't get a GS all sold)
I'll just need to grow 3 ins before it arrives. :rolleyes:
 
...Beacause I Fu"king Can.....you fuc"kwit!!![/QUOTE]


I think youv'e just made Fanums point, or one of them, or maybe two of them even
 
MikeP said:
I'm always amazed when people dash out and buy a new model. A motoring journalist (it might have been James May) wrote a column on the subject once.

He pointed out that what manufacturers do is sell a sub-standard product. We know that within two years BMW will have modified the WC. Not just addressed problems, it will have a little more power or produce it's torque lower in the range etc.

They'll expect people to believe that all the incremental changes for the better were discovered after the initial launch and few will question that assumption. They want people to believe that the WC will be the best that they could make it.

That's bollocks. The best they can make is already designed and production-ready. They just won't build it until six years have elapsed.

Buy a very late air-cooled model, it will be better than the new bike, at least until the next major model change at which point BMW will release the bike they could have sold years before.
Click to expand...

Sad... But all too true. :mad:
 
I would say that the reason the model improves as the years go on is simply that up to now they may have been testing a dozen bikes in various guises,and variable conditions.But the big learning comes when 20,000 of them are out there in all corners of the world, ridden by all sorts of good, bad and indifferent riders.This is when the rest of the development occurs. just my thoughts:nenau
So you need the fuckwits to buy them early on, to make them better for clever people like me:rolleyes:
 
rear tyre size

did anyone notice the rear tyre looks like a 180 section and not 150? do you think this could be or maybe just an illusion
 
I might buy one - depends of course on many factors, e.g. will it be no heavier than the existing one?, will it handle as well? perhaps most importantly for me.. is will get hot and uncomfortable at 30+C when I am holidaying in the South of France? - the current 1200 is great in this respect, it never gets unbearable even when tootling around - to many water cooled bikes quickly over heat and cook the rider.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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