Police Presence on the A49

My feeling is that the section 59 in question was probably issued for the careless driving, (section 3).

But as I wasn't there it is only a guess.

That would be my guess too but my point is that even though the Act allows the use of Sec 59 in circumstances where the vehicle was used on a road, the problem is that resorting to Sec 59 removes any test of the facts and relies solely upon the opinion of a police officer.

Sec 59 has a place. I don't think that it was intended to replace Sec 3 RTA or Sec 34.

I agree that not knowing the full circumstances of this case makes any discussion of the merit of Sec 59, pointless.

Neither do I subscribe to the view that it will be used to target bikes just because they are considered anti-social by some.

In my experience, Sec 59 seizures are very rare. I don't know how frequently the first notice is used though.

Locally (and I don't know if this is common elsewhere) we get groups of anything from ten to thirty Herberts screaming about on scooters in the evenings. They rely on their sheer numbers to avoid being stopped. It reminds me of those wild-life documentaries where a heard crosses a Crocodile infested river in such numbers that it reduces the odds of being eaten.

I can see how Sec 59 would make dealing with these a lot easier but I'm very uncomfortable with any legislation that makes sanction 'easy' and puts the power to punish as well as detect into the same hands. At least the hated camera technology has the saving grace of being technically proven and doesn't rely upon opinion and Fixed Penalties do not remove the option of a hearing in court.
 
On the second occasion They need to have comitted one of the trigger offences and be reported for it and then the vehicle seized. No seizure form is needed for the seizure under Sect 59 PRA, unlike the requirement for a form under 165A RTA 88 for not in accordance or no insurance.


so a section 59 notice is possibly worse than speeding ticket, as it gives the power to seize the vehicle next time you are caught (within 12 months of the first occasion, so thats alright then!)

a worrying development for all bike riders, not just the so called "nobbers"
as they identify riding a bike more and more as an activity that "which has caused alarm or distress to another"

Exactly:clap , thats why I said it should be a concern , especially to those who ride in groups as a group of people doing anything that another group doesn't like could be considered anti social.

Also am I wrong in thinking that an officer doesn't actually have to witness an offence For example if somebody you have overtaken stops and tell a roadside cop how " bloody dangerous" your overtake was and that " he must have been doing at least 90 mph " and provides your number then you can be issued a section 59 if the cop spots you later or even decides to go round to your house:nenau
 
I certainly feel no sympathy for some of the riders that I see and I think that many deserve to be dealt with.

However, the use of Sec 59 to deal with offences that take place on a road is lazy policing at best, inappropriate (mis)use of the legislation at worst.

AFAIK, those who have been authorised to issue Sec 59 notices have to be specifically authorised to do so (an ACPO ruling I believe, so not law but procedure) and should know the limitations of the Act.

I'd gladly be corrected by any of my former colleagues who are more up-to-date on this than me.


I would love to see this challenged under the human rights act under Article 6: Right to a fair trial, as you should not be subject to punishment with first having a fair trial, I would have thought that having you vehicle confiscated by police on the opinion of no more that two police officers would certainly be worth having a go at.

And on the point of Tarka he ought not to be part of discussions like this as he dont own a motorcycle that is actually capable of breaking the 30mph speed limit let alone anything faster !!!! so none of this applies to him. Besides which any copper stupid enough to stop a scouser would have the wheels of his car missing before he got out of the thing!!
 
Gosh what a can of worms, why not settle the argument with the maxim "Them that ride like twats and bring the rest of us into disgrace deserve everything they get and sod em, we don't need them or want to be associated with them" :comfort
 
these sort of threads do my little head in and make my brain seize.

coz i is simple minded - i must be coz....

i thought that if a member of the Police Force thought you rode badly you'd get
1./ pulled.
2./ charged.
3./ a day in court to settle the matter.

but apparently no. it's o.k. and appears to be supported by some Riders that
1./ you get pulled.
2./ you sign a document that basically says
"i admit i was doing some unspecified, undefined but naughty thing, even though there is no actual evidence produced nor required and hearsay from an unqualified witless (member of the public) is acceptable to the Officer of the law now dealing with me.
Furthermore i accept that if stopped again you can take my Bike off me"

:eek
Absolutely No Chance sunshine!
you charge me - i see you in court - the EVIDENCE decides the matter / not the mere fact that i ride a Motorcycle must mean i'm guilty of SOMEthing!

...or have i missed something :nenau
 
Thread Killer here! I'm amazed how many of you know where the Stormy Petrel is as I've asked for a rideout before and there were no takers :nenau
Now I'm just getting paranoid!
 


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