R1150 GS/A: Hesitation under acceleration

[Wikkus]

Greetings all,

Well, I had a looong weekend in Norn Iron for my duties with our race team (www.team-ukrm.com ) and elected to do the boat thing from Holyhead to Dublin and back. 900mile round trip (scenic route ) without missing a beat.

However, yesterday morning, back into the daily commute (80 miles) as soon as I got onto the open roads and had an opportunity to whap the throttle open, I immediately noticed a hesitation.

I can best describe it as not being dissimilar to when the rear tyre breaks traction over a patch of loose or wetness on a tarmac road; momentary loss of acceleration and a blip in engine speed which is felt through the seat of the pants rather than being noticable on the tacho.

It manifests itself from about 3krpm all the way to the redline but is not consistent in its pattern; it's there all the time (i.e. not intermittant) but is not a regular pattern (like many mechanical issues) rather a "fluttering" or stuttering; not enough to seriously hinder acceleration, just take the edge off it. Whereas before, the bike would pull cleanly all the way to the redline, it currently fluffs and stutters its way.

Before I go wailing off to my dealer (who've been okay, so far...), I wonder if it's a fuel problem having read inconsistent reports in

this thread wherein there seems to be a bunch of people who only use "big name" fuel, some who only use supermarket fuel and others who don't care where it's from so long as it makes the bike go. I'm in the last group; so long as it's not stupidly expensive, as far as I'm concerned, unleaded is unleaded...

FWIW, I last filled up with regular unleaded at the Esso station at Cherwell Valley Services off the M40. This morning, with about eight litres left in the tank and just before the end of my journey, I filled up at a Jet station so I'll have to wait and see if the problem's gone away, tonight.

I'm a little perturbed by all this as the main reason for my being lured over to The Beak Side was that my previous set of wheels, a 200+bhp ZX-12R was a little expensive to commute on and I seemed to be putting in 20litres of Optimax only (yes, it was fussy) every 100yds^H^H^Hmiles or so it seemed.

That combined with needing £250 worth of tyres every 3000miles and a service at intervals randomly generated by Kawasaki (with matching random amounts of money to the dealer) and it all got a bit 'spensive. That said and done, the -12R still made a bloody good commuter bike for my kind of commuting

Therefore the prospect of still having a bike that could be great fun yet practical and economical with it, appealed greatly. Having been back to the dealer for knackered gearbox selector bushes ("They all do that, sir"), a peeling tailpiece decal and now, potentially, running problems, I'm wondering if I've got a "Friday afternoon special"...

...plus, we're s'posed to be off to Espana for the MotoGP next week...

I'd be interested in anyone's comments or observations on this, generally if not specifically.

Wikkus.

 

[Possu]

Try cleaning & gapping the plugs, may be worth while putting new plugs in anyway?

Clean/replace airfilter?

Steve

 

[Wikkus]

Try cleaning & gapping the plugs, may be worth while putting new plugs in anyway?

Clean/replace airfilter?

Steve

Hi Steve,
Umm, yeah, ordinarily I'd be with you on that one, however, something I neglected to mention in my post was that the thing was serviced (6k service) just a week and a half ago.

Wik.

 

[andy malton]

stuttering

Check all your cables are seated properly and that you have not got any crap or stones stuck in your cable channels on the throttle bodies.You could also try a throttle body balance.My 2p worth

 

[cookie]

the thing was serviced (6k service) just a week and a half ago.

Wik.

hmmmm...

 

[andy malton]

Hi Steve,
Umm, yeah, ordinarily I'd be with you on that one, however, something I neglected to mention in my post was that the thing was serviced (6k service) just a week and a half ago.

Wik.

Don't mean nothing,and if you have done 900 since last sync they might of gone out enough to experience what your discribing.Worth a check it only takes 10 mins if you have the balancer of course.I do mine every 250

 

[ferguscawley]

I agree with Andy.
Check plugs and do a throttle balance. If the throttles are difficult to balance then do the valve clearances. Just because the bike was serviced 900 miles ago doesn't mean anything. In fact, if it was poorly serviced, it could be the cause of your rough-running.

Best of luck

Ferg

 

[Possu]

I'd still replace the plugs though. I've had brand new plugs that were faulty from new on a GSX-R. It fired up okay but under load, one was breaking down intermittently, the bike would switch between running on 3 & 4 cylinders constantly.

Of course, whenever I checked for a good spark, there it was. Got pissed off in the end, waited till the bike was running on 3 for a few minutes, stopped & briefly touched the headers until I found one that was cooler than the rest. Fitted a new plug in that cylinder & problem solved. The faulty plug was a brand new NGK.

The plug option is worth doing just to eliminate it as a cause, it's cheap, easy & takes no time. Worst case scenario, you have a spare set of plugs.

Steve

 

[Wikkus]

Not fuel quality...

Okay, it's not the fuel itself at fault; I filled up with a different brand in a different location and it's still misbehaving.

Following a 'phone call last evening, this morning it's with Vines in Guildford for investigation and I've got a new F650GS for the day (hopefully, not for any longer...).

Will let you know...

Wik.

 

[Wikkus]

Don't mean nothing,and if you have done 900 since last sync they might of gone out enough to experience what your discribing.Worth a check it only takes 10 mins if you have the balancer of course.I do mine every 250

You're 'avin' a giraffe!? 250 miles! What, are you some sort of obsessive-compulsive or summat?


Wik.

 

[ferguscawley]

You're 'avin' a giraffe!? 250 miles! What, are you some sort of obsessive-compulsive or summat?


Wik.

Obsessive-compulsive ?
Nah, I don't think so. Its called Boxeritis in medical terms.

It takes 5 mins to check and another 5 mins to adjust if necessary. Well worth the effort to keep the bike running sweet. I do it very regularly also - maybe evry 500-600 miles or so. No big deal.

 

[Wikkus]

Obsessive-compulsive ?
Nah, I don't think so. Its called Boxeritis in medical terms.

Heh...

It takes 5 mins to check and another 5 mins to adjust if necessary. Well worth the effort to keep the bike running sweet. I do it very regularly also - maybe evry 500-600 miles or so. No big deal.

Just heard back from the dealer; TBs were in need of balancing and idle speed slightly low. They've road tested it and are now satisfied it's ok -- I'll be the judge of that!

I mentioned the remarks on here with respect to frequent balancing and the response was that they shouldn't need doing any more frequently than 6k miles and that often owners notice rough running toward the end of each 6k miles - I'd be interested in comments from other owners as to this statement!

If it is only a 5 minute job, is the procedure detailed anywhere handy that I can check out (preferably with diagrams...in crayon)? What tools does one need (vacuum guage, presumably being fairly fundamental)?

{thinks} Tch! All that time and mess saved not having to lube a chain and there's something else to occupy that time!{/thinks}

Cheers all,

Rik.

 

[BlackBetty]

Heh...



If it is only a 5 minute job, is the procedure detailed anywhere handy that I can check out (preferably with diagrams...in crayon)? What tools does one need (vacuum guage, presumably being fairly fundamental)?
.

Try advrider hall of wisdom

http://www.advrider.com/Wisdom/Wisdom.html

It's a good read too.

 

[Wikkus]

Gah!

Try advrider hall of wisdom

http://www.advrider.com/Wisdom/Wisdom.html

It's a good read too.

That's some very interesting and useful stuff in there.

However, I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm losing my marbles, here: I picked the bike up last night and Damien was quite adamant that they'd done what they'd had to do (as mentioned in my earlier post), that Phil had test-ridden it and was satisfied that it was all hunky-dory.

I set off from Vines and it was maybe a mile before I could test it properly (due to the "fault's" manifestation only at full throttle, this meant waiting for a NSL stretch of road).

I went for an overtake and cracked the loud lever; there's the problem, straight away. It's still hesitating just as bad as before

What I really need is to ride another GS/A and see if that does it, also, but I'm pretty f*cking sure I'd have noticed something like this at least once in the last seven months of ownership and nearly 8k miles!

God I'm p!ssed off.

 

[DrAlf]

My 1150 recently suffered from serious hesitation when opening the throttle. I eventually tracked it down to either perished little rubber caps under the throttle bodies – the ones you remove when balancing the TB’s or possibly worn O rings on the air intake tubes between the airbox and the throttle bodies. I replaced both and the problem was sorted so not quite sure which one it was. Total cost was next to nothing so well worth a shot.

HTH

 

[Wikkus]

Cheers for that, Alf. How many miles had your bike done, though? I think the thing that's most irksome for me is that mine's, in what I perceive to be GS terms, but a wee babby! 8k miles in 7months ain't earth-shattering!

Incidentally, Damien at Vines asked whether I rode my bike "hard" to which I responded that I knew no other way but that's why I chose this bike rather than another; I've either been suckered by some brilliant and subtle marketing or I've bought a lemon. Or both

I'm now of a mind just to forget it, go to Spain next Thursday and if it goes pop, it goes pop.

Rik.

 

[leigh]

Have you tried the intake manifolds?(cylinder head to throttle bodies)We get no end of them leaking, even on bikes at 1st service.With the engine ticking over spray some wd40 on them and listen for any change in the engine note.Left hand side is usually favourite and will produce the symptoms you suggest.

 

[Wikkus]

Have you tried the intake manifolds?(cylinder head to throttle bodies)We get no end of them leaking, even on bikes at 1st service.With the engine ticking over spray some wd40 on them and listen for any change in the engine note.Left hand side is usually favourite and will produce the symptoms you suggest.

{Wikkus has given this response a five "eek!" rating}


Ok, so before I actually nip out and attempt a fettleing (dumb question mode=on), how does one fix it? Is it simply a case of nipping up some nuts (fnarr!) or is it a job for sealant/o-rings/dealer?

Rgds, Rik.

 

[DavidHolmes]

Wikkus - if the bike is still in warranty you have to be careful about messing about with it yourself - gives the dealer all kinds of excuses not to have to sort it out.

From my experience, although I have not had this particular problem, it may be worth riding into another dealer (I was riding past, and I seem to have a problem, any ideas) and getting a second opinion.

My 63k 1150GS has visited 7 BMW dealerships workshops in the last 3 years....

(I have literally ridden out of one who had 'fixed' the problem and ridden straight to another who then fixed it properly - if your bike is still in warranty from BMW any dealer can fix it and claim.)

 

[Wikkus]

Still a PITA...

...Ok, so after a 2100 mile round trip to the Catalunyan round of MotoGP (top race!) including 900 miles of 100mph motorway and 1200 miles of twistiness over the Pyrenees, the Massif Central, Dordogne and so on, the problem's very much still there and definitely worse. On a couple of occasions, chasing my mates on the twistier stuff, I pulled out to overtake and thought the thing was going to die altogether!

On the very last 70 mile blast up the Autoroute to catch Le Shuttle, my other half on her CBR600 Sport decided to do a top speed run. I thought "what the hell!" and wound it on, also. At about 90mph the "hesitation" (I wonder if this is in fact the famous "surging"...?) was so extreme, the bike started doing a rocking-horse impression!

I kept the throttle nailed to see if it got worse or better and it did neither. With me and 20kg of luggage aboard it wouldn't pull much past the ton. Since I got home on Sunday, I've ridden it twice and it stalled on me a couple of times, once in central London at the head of a queue of traffic which f*cking near ran me down when the lights changed as a result!


The day before I left, the dealer (Vines in Guildford) suggested it might be the throttle cables and proposed to change them at the 12k service. Having just turned 10k on the return leg of the trip and calculating it'll be about three weeks before it reaches the 12k mark, I'm not in the slightest bit happy about having to put up with this defect, particularly as it dawned on me that should they do it as part of the service and it's still not resolved, my service costs are likely to increase.

Also, when it was in t'other week, they lent me for the day a 3.5k GS/A with knobblies on it. That bike was exactly how mine was prior to its 6k service; smooth (for a boxer!) and clean-pulling all the way to the red-line. Phil of Vines did say that mine was not the smoothest GS he'd ridden and that the loan bike was, by contrast, one of the best. That's all well and good, but it doesn't make me feel any better.

I'm gonna give 'em a bell and try and get it booked in, asap. If they don't want to know, I'll try calling BMW UK.



Rik.