R1150GSA Hall Sensor Failure

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Have you checked the connector to make sure there's no rust in there, or whether the wiring could be replaced - for the sake of a couple of hours to do some soldering or a squirt of WD40, you could be on your way again. There are a few useful links on this thread - http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309674

I'm just gearing myself up to find somewhere to have a look at all that. The trouble is I had to find a city centre hotel and the bike's on the pavement. I can get an underground carpark for 24hrs for only 9 euro's around the corner to strip the bike down. Actually I do suspect the wiring beccause when I left the ferry I could smell burning plastic whilst waiting at customs and wondered if my by was on fire but, it had no problems getting to Burgos and then Pamplona, but started playing up just as I was about to ride into the hills.

Jesus chirst - There is no torque - a five year old could hold a spanner and do it. I've even used use the method with a short open ended spanner.

Try it before you start posting dire warnings .

I'm going to do as you say but I must tell you that I saw that bolt being torqued up with an air driven impact gun last year. I'll see if I can find a decent tool shop and get a breaker bar if I need to.

All I have to do now is wait for my replacement parts. It can't do any harm having that with me even though I looked at my working original and thought "I won't need that."

 

[MickDB1]

If yer smelt burning at the customs post Paul
may be a good Idea to get a good flashlight and check all wireing around the bike
Would it also be an idea to start and run the bike in a Dark area to see if there is any sparking/flashin going on around any areas - yer see um in the dark
HTHY and best of luck Pal

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Cheers Mick,

I assumed I was close to a 1200 when I smelt the burning plastic but now it seems it could have been my bike.

I have met a bar owner, Juan, who will let me use his garage and tools on Monday if my parts arrive early enough. He's off on his holidays on Tuesday so it's going to be a close run thing.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

I still have no parts from the UK. It's ParcelFarce and the updates on the tracking system still showed International Hub, wherever that is, earlier today. I hate them.

Anyway getting back to replacing the HES assy: When I set the engine to TDC before removing the old HES, does it matter which piston is at TDC and why is it important?

I've already scribed the position of the current plate to avoid any advance or retardation to the ECU but I don't know if there are wasted pulses from the HES and if the ECU needs to know whether it is counting a compression stroke or exhaust stroke.

Alternatively, am I thinking about this too much under the hot sun?

 

[Womble]

That's bad news - Tuesday and still no delivery. Mind-you, it'll probably be a fair while before you get sick of the tapas and beer .

As far as I can tell, the boxer engine is wasted spark, so it sparks at TDC on both strokes, to simplify the ignition design, so you should be fine.

 

[NeilDD]

Paul
Calm down, have another beer, and dont worry.
Looking at the fiche it appears that the tirgger can (cant think of better words) is keyed to the crank.

HTH
Neil

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

That's bad news - Tuesday and still no delivery. Mind-you, it'll probably be a fair while before you get sick of the tapas and beer .

As far as I can tell, the boxer engine is wasted spark, so it sparks at TDC on both strokes, to simplify the ignition design, so you should be fine.

No update since the 4th and I've just checked and found it has arrived is Spain this afternoon. That's supposed to be a Business Priority Service.

Paul
Calm down, have another beer, and dont worry.
Looking at the fiche it appears that the tirgger can (cant think of better words) is keyed to the crank.

HTH
Neil

Thanks chaps, I'm just waiting to go out for dinner and a couple of cerveza's. You can't go out too early or you'll be on you own with the ruddy faced drunk Glaswegian in the Irish Pub. I haven't been doing any of that but mostly going to the small local Tapas Bars. I'll tell you all about it in the RR I'm working on.

Neil, You're right. The trigger gate is keyed onto the crank but I don't know why I have to set the engine's position. I'd imagined one sensor was for the LHS and the other sensor was for the RHS but that doesn't ring true because I think the sensors simply provide a number to the ECU for the rev count.

Anyway, I expect the HES assy will be here in the morning and I'll know where I stand, or ride, by lunchtime.

 

[NeilDD]

Paul
Your confusing yourself again....
Its 1 HES for each cylinder, the moronic takes this info and sends it to the tacho, which is why you get a fuel injection pulse for each cylinder as you turn the engine over slowly. You get a waisted spark due to the main coil being a single fired dual output coil

HTH
Neil

 

[MattW]

It isn't one sensor per clinder, it's one sensor for ignition and one sensor for injection (it's a single cylinder ecu - monotronic, shortened to motronic which requires distinct impulses for injector and ignition). It uses a wasted spark and batch injection. Plugs and injectors fire every tdc (i.e. plugs also fire on the exhaust stroke and injectors also fire on the compression stroke - the compression stroke fuel load hangs around in the inlet tract until it's joined by the next 'batch' on the induction stroke). It might seem pedantic but this matters if you're fault finding

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

It isn't one sensor per clinder, it's one sensor for ignition and one sensor for injection (it's a single cylinder ecu - monotronic, shortened to motronic which requires distinct impulses for injector and ignition). It uses a wasted spark and batch injection. Plugs and injectors fire every tdc (i.e. plugs also fire on the exhaust stroke and injectors also fire on the compression stroke - the compression stroke fuel load hangs around in the inlet tract until it's joined by the next 'batch' on the induction stroke). It might seem pedantic but this matters if you're fault finding

Thanks Matt. That's much clearer and I now understand that it doesn't matter which cylinder is at TDC. I think I read somewhere that it's likely to be the LHS because of the resting point of the engine.

Hopefully the part will arrive in the morning.

Since you have done something for me, I'll do something for you: When at the Hostal Cataluna in Zaragoza the best porn channel 013.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Well, the HES has arrived this afternoon but the Geezer in the Hostal doesn't think it would be a good idea to take my bike apart here...

As you can see it is not exactly a backstreet alley on the edge of town but is in a place equivalent to Tottenham Court Rd...

Time to find a workshop then. It may even end up with Goya Motorrad.

Those pictures were taken last night when the bars had closed but before then it is very busy and there seems to be a lot of Police on patrol all day and everyday.

 

[Steptoe]

I
Anyway getting back to replacing the HES assy: When I set the engine to TDC before removing the old HES, does it matter which piston is at TDC and why is it important?

Doesn't matter where or what position the engine is - simply remove old sensor, fit new sensor. Job done. It really is as easy as that.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Doesn't matter where or what position the engine is - simply remove old sensor, fit new sensor. Job done. It really is as easy as that.

Many Thanks. I owe you one, and some others as well.

I was really puzzled as to why I'd heard that was what to do before removing the dead sensor assy and couldn't think of a reason why it mattered. I'll just fit the new one as accurately as possible in the underground public carpark where the bike is now parked.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

How hard can it be to go away for a few weeks on a motorcyle and enjoy yourself?
I'm still in Zaragoza for tonight and will probably try and move on tomorrow.

Anyway, I fitted the new sensor and rode the bike back to the Hostal but it was still the same. What now?

I took the bike to Goya Motorrad just in time for their siesta so I had a think whilst smoking a cigar and decided to do some more work myself. Out came the tools and spares and it was to be stick coils' changing time. I have two and started on the RHS and then went the LHS and found a right mess. The stick coil was FUBAR, as was the connector and wiring, and I had to remove the cover to knock it out.
I trimmed away the burnt wiring, insulated it, and refitted the RHS's stick coil to fill the gap in case it gets contanimated with anything nasty.

Now I am running a single seconday spark on the LHS but can still detect a momentary rev drop but I reckon I'm probably okay to get to Barcelona tomorrow. The bike's also running a bit rougher than usual.

Does anyone know of any after effects of a shorted stick coil which I should look at?

PS. Goya Motorrad didn't want to know after the siesta and can't seem to be able recover a broken down bike either. I'm simply content that I used their pavement to do some work and split some oil on it.

 

[Womble]

Oh well, at least you probably found the source of the burning smell

Old ignition systems didn't like being run without sparking, but
1) capacitors have got a lot better in the last 20 years and
2) That's a stick coil, so the ignition system is only low voltage anyway.
Either way, I can't see there being a lot of damage running without a working secondary plug.

I'd get on the thing and ride it to somewhere where you can have a better quality of breakdown

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Oh well, at least you probably found the source of the burning smell

Old ignition systems didn't like being run without sparking, but
1) capacitors have got a lot better in the last 20 years and
2) That's a stick coil, so the ignition system is only low voltage anyway.
Either way, I can't see there being a lot of damage running without a working secondary plug.

I'd get on the thing and ride it to somewhere where you can have a better quality of breakdown

Cheers Mate. That made me laugh. Of all the times I've smelt burning when on a bike this is the first time it was really me, and when riding off of a ferry.

All I need to do know is get my phone working.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

Now It's Serious.

My newly replaced HES has failed according to Goya Motorrad and they are currently trying to fit another new one and repair the burnt wiring for my LHS coils stick.

This I left Zaragoza and 40miles down the road to Llueda the bike died again with the rev counter flapping and the fuelling gone to pot. I was then recovered back to Zaragoza.

They have tried to explain to me that the fact I was only running three sparks hass killed the HES because the ECU doesn't know what's happening with the performance of the engine.
I was not expecting that and had read here that a bike would run in this condition.

Does anyone know if it's okay to run a twin spark without a stick coil connected?

What a day!

 

[davegs]

Sticky

Sorry you've had all this agro Paul, lets hope they sort it good and proper have a
look at the 1200's while your there. Make sure you enjoy the rest of your holiday .
Dave GS

 

[Steptoe]

How hard can it be to go away for a few weeks on a motorcyle and enjoy yourself?
I'm still in Zaragoza for tonight and will probably try and move on tomorrow.

Anyway, I fitted the new sensor and rode the bike back to the Hostal but it was still the same. What now?

I took the bike to Goya Motorrad just in time for their siesta so I had a think whilst smoking a cigar and decided to do some more work myself. Out came the tools and spares and it was to be stick coils' changing time. I have two and started on the RHS and then went the LHS and found a right mess. The stick coil was FUBAR, as was the connector and wiring, and I had to remove the cover to knock it out.
I trimmed away the burnt wiring, insulated it, and refitted the RHS's stick coil to fill the gap in case it gets contanimated with anything nasty.

Now I am running a single seconday spark on the LHS but can still detect a momentary rev drop but I reckon I'm probably okay to get to Barcelona tomorrow. The bike's also running a bit rougher than usual.

Does anyone know of any after effects of a shorted stick coil which I should look at?

PS. Goya Motorrad didn't want to know after the siesta and can't seem to be able recover a broken down bike either. I'm simply content that I used their pavement to do some work and split some oil on it.

Running for any length of time with a non functioning stick coil will lead to the wiring supplying the stick coil to catch fire.

 

[MattW]

Steptoe will be your man to answer your questions above, but I doubt very much that running with one coil down on a twin spark could break the HES - it's an entirely passive sensor - just reads the passing of a chunk of steel attached to the crank. I suspect that Johnny foreigner is attempting to shaft you...

Edit: steppers has indeed answered your questions