Rear lights/Indicators on the GS/GSAs

littleade

littleade

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I saw a 1300 GS Tramanana on the A456 last week which actually didn't look too bad (if yOu ignored the front headlight). But...... I thought the rear light/indicator combo that I believe is also used on the later 1250s? was absolutely crap. Unless the vehicle behind was close it really was difficult to distinguish when/which indicator was on. If I had that set up I'd look to get rid of it ASAP.
 
aside from being dangerous and looking silly - its also illegal in the UK

my local MOT bike shop loves to rant at BMW bikes - and is very eager to start failing all the new ones over this - he says it every time I see him

UK construction and use regs are split out from lighting regs (somehow), but if you look up lighting regs two separate rear tail lights must be separated by a certain distance - I think 1.2m - its to differentiate between a car and a motorbike




if you are old enough - when the RC30 was first at the Birmingham NEC it has a very cute tail light housing - then UK ones came with the web cut out making it look like a pile of junk - so it met our rules

shit.jpg


a real one

better.jpg
 
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Now I think the opposite, I've been behind new 1300,s. And it's very visible,

Lighting has changed, we have been indoctrinated to the three lamp set up for years, and because it's changed, some struggle to accept the new norm.

Go and drive behind any Land rover, or Range rover, they've had combined stop run and indicators for years, yet I don't recall seeing outcry or angst on any of the forums over this.

I think it's a problem that never existed, but made a problem by social media
 
botus said:
aside from being dangerous and looking silly - its also illegal in the UK
Click to expand...

I agree they are not as clear as they could be. There is no doubt the indicator disappears somewhat when the brake lights are on.

However, I highly doubt they are illegal. Do you have some actual facts to support that?
 
botus said:
aside from being dangerous and looking silly - its also illegal in the UK

my local MOT bike shop loves to rant at BMW bikes - and is very eager to start failing all the new ones over this - he says it every time I see him

UK construction and use regs are split out from lighting regs (somehow), but if you look up lighting regs two separate rear tail lights must be separated by a certain distance - I think 1.2m - its to differentiate between a car and a motorbike
Click to expand...

I think you're local MOT shop would find themselves in deep water if they failed a bike over this.

Here is what section 4.2.1 (part of) of the Motorcycle MOT inspection manual has to say:


A solo motorcycle can have one or two front and rear position lamps.

These lamps must be:

  • mounted centrally - if there’s one lamp
  • mounted one above the other on the centre line - if there’s 2 lamps
  • mounted symmetrical about the centre line - if 2 are mounted side by side
Front and rear position lamps can be incorporated with the direction indicator lamps. The position lamp on the same side of the direction indicator may or may not switch off when the indicator is switched on.
 
I’ve given Weiser Technik a few bob over the last few years because of this, with my previous 2021 R1250GS and my current 2024 R1300GS.
I was following one on a French Autorotate a few weeks back, not on my bike and seeing him indicating and braking convinced me I was right to change it. Indicating was bad enough to see but virtually impossible when he braked and indicated. That was in daylight and good weather.
 
tspivey said:
I’ve given Weiser Technik a few bob over the last few years because of this, with my previous 2021 R1250GS and my current 2024 R1300GS.
I was following one on a French Autorotate a few weeks back, not on my bike and seeing him indicating and braking convinced me I was right to change it. Indicating was bad enough to see but virtually impossible when he braked and indicated. That was in daylight and good weather.
Click to expand...
Link please?

TD
 
botus said:
aside from being dangerous and looking silly - its also illegal in the UK
Click to expand...
Really?
Can you post some proof of this please…..I’d be quite astounded if BMW would design something that was deemed to put them out of a market on grounds of the design not being legal?
RichardD said:
I agree they are not as clear as they could be. There is no doubt the indicator disappears somewhat when the brake lights are on.

However, I highly doubt they are illegal. Do you have some actual facts to support that?
Click to expand...
Ditto… right question thanks RichardD
 
Just Google weisser wizard.

Good British company, and it’s all “plug n play” …just watch their video.
 
HGS said:
Search them here
I've had them on a 1250 GS
Now got them and the denali B6 on my 1300
Brilliant systems imho
Click to expand...
Me too…… excellent kit, easy to fit, and worthwhile in making the back end more visible to all.
 
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you guys seem to think the world is round and stuff matters - that ended many years ago - now its just a torture chamber, delaying the inevitable, as they attempt to steal any funds you've got left - so nothing actually matters any more

I'm sure some of you can think about an amendment they hid somewhere - I had originally written brake lamps but changed it to tail lights as it made as much sense they are in the correct place - and the distance is a lot less then I recollected... 400mm Note: "separation distance" so inside of the indicator to the inside of the other one.... someone got a tape measure ?

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk


SCHEDULE 12
PART I Requirements relating to obligatory stop lamps and to optional stop lamps to the extent specified in part ii

1. Number–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b) or (c):
Two

(b) A solo motor bicycle, a motor bicycle combination, an invalid carriage and a trailer drawn by a solo motor bicycle or a motor bicycle combination:
One

(c) Any other motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and any other trailer manufactured before that date:
One

2. Position–

(a) Longitudinal:
No requirement

(b) Lateral–

(i) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle–

(A) Where two stop lamps are fitted:
One on each side of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle

(B) Where only one stop lamp is fitted:
On the centre-line or off side of the vehicle (disregarding any sidecar forming part of a motor bicycle combination)

(ii) Minimum separation distance between two obligatory stop lamps:
400 mm

(c) Vertical–

(i) Maximum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
1500 mm or, if the structure of the vehicle makes this impracticable, 2100 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971, a trailer manufactured before that date and a motor vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph:
No requirement

(ii) Minimum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
350 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and a trailer manufactured before that date:
No requirement
 
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But two stop lights are not obligatory on a solo motorcycle. :nenau
 
botus said:
you guys seem to think the world is round and stuff matters - that ended many years ago - now its just a torture chamber, delaying the inevitable, as they attempt to steal any funds you've got left - so nothing actually matters any more

I'm sure some of you can think about an amendment they hid somewhere - I had originally written brake lamps but changed it to tail lights as it made as much sense they are in the correct place - and the distance is a lot less then I recollected... 400mm Note: "separation distance" so inside of the indicator to the inside of the other one.... someone got a tape measure ?

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk


SCHEDULE 12
PART I Requirements relating to obligatory stop lamps and to optional stop lamps to the extent specified in part ii

1. Number–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b) or (c):
Two

(b) A solo motor bicycle, a motor bicycle combination, an invalid carriage and a trailer drawn by a solo motor bicycle or a motor bicycle combination:
One

(c) Any other motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and any other trailer manufactured before that date:
One

2. Position–

(a) Longitudinal:
No requirement

(b) Lateral–

(i) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle–

(A) Where two stop lamps are fitted:
One on each side of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle

(B) Where only one stop lamp is fitted:
On the centre-line or off side of the vehicle (disregarding any sidecar forming part of a motor bicycle combination)

(ii) Minimum separation distance between two obligatory stop lamps:
400 mm

(c) Vertical–

(i) Maximum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
1500 mm or, if the structure of the vehicle makes this impracticable, 2100 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971, a trailer manufactured before that date and a motor vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph:
No requirement

(ii) Minimum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
350 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and a trailer manufactured before that date:
No requirement
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure BMW know the regulations and produced a UK compliant Bike, given that we follow essentially the same rules as Europe. It has to go through homologation testing to get signed off. Do you think the testers missed this?
 
botus said:
you guys seem to think the world is round and stuff matters - that ended many years ago - now its just a torture chamber, delaying the inevitable, as they attempt to steal any funds you've got left - so nothing actually matters any more

I'm sure some of you can think about an amendment they hid somewhere - I had originally written brake lamps but changed it to tail lights as it made as much sense they are in the correct place - and the distance is a lot less then I recollected... 400mm Note: "separation distance" so inside of the indicator to the inside of the other one.... someone got a tape measure ?

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk


SCHEDULE 12
PART I Requirements relating to obligatory stop lamps and to optional stop lamps to the extent specified in part ii

1. Number–

(a) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (b) or (c):
Two

(b) A solo motor bicycle, a motor bicycle combination, an invalid carriage and a trailer drawn by a solo motor bicycle or a motor bicycle combination:
One

(c) Any other motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and any other trailer manufactured before that date:
One

2. Position–

(a) Longitudinal:
No requirement

(b) Lateral–

(i) Maximum distance from the side of the vehicle–

(A) Where two stop lamps are fitted:
One on each side of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle

(B) Where only one stop lamp is fitted:
On the centre-line or off side of the vehicle (disregarding any sidecar forming part of a motor bicycle combination)

(ii) Minimum separation distance between two obligatory stop lamps:
400 mm

(c) Vertical–

(i) Maximum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
1500 mm or, if the structure of the vehicle makes this impracticable, 2100 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971, a trailer manufactured before that date and a motor vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph:
No requirement

(ii) Minimum height above the ground–

(A) Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (B):
350 mm

(B) A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1971 and a trailer manufactured before that date:
No requirement
Click to expand...
Sorry Botus that is incorrect. Reg.1(a) exempts certain vehicles from the 400mm requirement - which is is for vehicles with obligatory two stop lamps. As you can see from reg.1(b) a solo motorcycle is exempt and is obligated to have one lamp.
The single stop lamp is to be placed at the centre line or offside of the bike (reg.2(b)(1)(B)). BMW has placed one stop lamp to the offside and added an additional stop lamp to the nearside.
It is plain from Part II of Schedule 12 that ‘any number of additional stop lamps … may be fitted’. And that additional stop lights do not have to conform with the 400mm regulation that you mention (reg.14(a)).
 
if you can make any sense of that bunch of confusion you are doing well...

all I know is the MOT guy who seems very clued up (not the case with any I have met in 40 years before) believes he's right

which happens to match my understanding and the regs dating from around the time Honda UK had to vandalise all RC30's for the UK Mkt. Pretty sure it was all covered in the bike press from way back when too

expecting the Germans to read the UK document and understand it doesn't matter - they'd pay off their local regulators to do what ever they wanted

and the legality I don't actually care about - the world is so messed up it really has no bearing on anything - but it looks pathetic, and I'd like it back how real bikes are made - already bought the parts
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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