Rear lights/Indicators on the GS/GSAs

[JoeBiff]

Sorry Botus that is incorrect. Reg.1(a) exempts certain vehicles from the 400mm requirement - which is is for vehicles with obligatory two stop lamps. As you can see from reg.1(b) a solo motorcycle is exempt and is obligated to have one lamp.
The single stop lamp is to be placed at the centre line or offside of the bike (reg.2(b)(1)(B)). BMW has placed one stop lamp to the offside and added an additional stop lamp to the nearside.
It is plain from Part II of Schedule 12 that ‘any number of additional stop lamps … may be fitted’. And that additional stop lights do not have to conform with the 400mm regulation that you mention (reg.14(a)).

Ah, that botus troll again…
He hasn’t even managed to properly read or interpret the difference between an optional brake light and an obligatory brake light. Or, he’s conveniently ignored it - giving himself the opportunity for another one of his rants.

Never fear when botus is near - he’ll give you a laugh if nothing else in the R13 forum.

 

[JoeBiff]

Anyway, whatever happened to “mirror, signal then manoeuvre” ?

 

[Prof]

Anyway, whatever happened to “mirror, signal then manoeuvre” ?

BMW and anyone else relying on the regulations, including MOT testers, would, of course, need to take their own professional advice - which no doubt they have done/will do.
In the meantime, the Weiser Technik set-up generally seems to get get the thumbs-up as a worthwhile improvement (Santa-2512 excepted).

 

[DJ123]

Anyway, whatever happened to “mirror, signal then manoeuvre” ?

It's a BMW - no signal needed

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

BMW and anyone else relying on the regulations, including MOT testers, would, of course, need to take their own professional advice - which no doubt they have done/will do.
In the meantime, the Weiser Technik set-up generally seems to get get the thumbs-up as a worthwhile improvement (Santa-2512 excepted).

The point is ….

You shouldn’t have to spend more coin on Wieser Technik ….when you’re already spending over £20k on a new GS

 

[EVskiy]

I’ve given Weiser Technik a few bob over the last few years because of this, with my previous 2021 R1250GS and my current 2024 R1300GS.
I was following one on a French Autorotate a few weeks back, not on my bike and seeing him indicating and braking convinced me I was right to change it. Indicating was bad enough to see but virtually impossible when he braked and indicated. That was in daylight and good weather.

Same experience in Spain when following a fellow rider in the group on his then brand new 1250 GSA. Unless you were on top of him, it was very hard to distinguish whether the indicator was on at al,l even though it was.

 

[botus]

I think you're local MOT shop would find themselves in deep water if they failed a bike over this.

Here is what section 4.2.1 (part of) of the Motorcycle MOT inspection manual has to say:


A solo motorcycle can have one or two front and rear position lamps.

These lamps must be:

• mounted centrally - if there’s one lamp
• mounted one above the other on the centre line - if there’s 2 lamps
• mounted symmetrical about the centre line - if 2 are mounted side by side

Front and rear position lamps can be incorporated with the direction indicator lamps. The position lamp on the same side of the direction indicator may or may not switch off when the indicator is switched on.

re

• mounted symmetrical about the centre line - if 2 are mounted side by side

what does that really mean ?

if we go back to the likes of the RC30 and many other Jap imports that had two rear lights mounted symmetrical about the centre line and separated by bodywork - UK models all had to be altered.
using the RC30 example with the web chopped out of the body work it met our regs (maybe since updated)


BM ones as a number have posted about on this thread - would then fail regardless, on this part of Construction and Use Regs ?

Additional Considerations​

• Integrated Lighting: While integrated rear lights (combining multiple functions) can be used, they must comply with the Construction and Use Regulations. This means they should not confuse other road users regarding the motorcycle's intentions.

I thought the rear light/indicator combo that I believe is also used on the later 1250s? was absolutely crap. Unless the vehicle behind was close it really was difficult to distinguish when/which indicator was on. If I had that set up I'd look to get rid of it ASAP.

Same experience in Spain when following a fellow rider in the group on his then brand new 1250 GSA. Unless you were on top of him, it was very hard to distinguish whether the indicator was on at al,l even though it was.

 

[JoeBiff]

The point is ….

You shouldn’t have to spend more coin on Wieser Technik ….when you’re already spending over £20k on a new GS

Johnny, the whole thread is a non-event.
Who rides so close up someone’s arse they can’t see their indicators?
Who indicates at the last minute they surprise someone behind you, or can’t see brake lights?
And, TBH, brake lights are far more significant than indicators….
Just my tuppence worth.

Peace and love to all

 

[botus]

blank

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Johnny, the whole thread is a non-event.
Who rides so close up someone’s arse they can’t see their indicators?
Who indicates at the last minute they surprise someone behind you, or can’t see brake lights?
And, TBH, brake lights are far more significant than indicators….
Just my tuppence worth.

Peace and love to all

I have followed 1250's and 1300's and it's not as clear as on earlier bikes

 

[leadfarmer]

The rear lights are like the exhaust

The bike comes from the factory with perfectly functional equipment which conforms to the legislation of your country

You can change them if you want to, but you don’t actually need to

 

[trebor]

re

• mounted symmetrical about the centre line - if 2 are mounted side by side

what does that really mean ?

if we go back to the likes of the RC30 and many other Jap imports that had two rear lights mounted symmetrical about the centre line and separated by bodywork - UK models all had to be altered.
using the RC30 example with the web chopped out of the body work it met our regs (maybe since updated)


BM ones as a number have posted about on this thread - would then fail regardless, on this part of Construction and Use Regs ?

Additional Considerations​

• Integrated Lighting: While integrated rear lights (combining multiple functions) can be used, they must comply with the Construction and Use Regulations. This means they should not confuse other road users regarding the motorcycle's intentions.

I think the excerpt from the MOT Manual that I provided is quite clear, as are the build regs you provided.

I know nothing of the RC30 and if or why they had to change the rear lights for the UK. Perhaps the regs were different at that time.

See if you can get your MOT man to fail a bike for the reasons mentioned, that'll settle it once and for all. We could set up a Go Fund Me page to help him with his legal fees and resulting fines.

I don't disagree that the indicators on both the R1300GS/A and R1250GS/A are not that clear due to them being part of a multi use/function unit, but I'm sure that they are legal. I've even considered installing one of the Weiser modifications myself, but I do wonder if it could affect my insurance and the warranty for the bike.

 

[littleade]

re

• mounted symmetrical about the centre line - if 2 are mounted side by side

what does that really mean ?

if we go back to the likes of the RC30 and many other Jap imports that had two rear lights mounted symmetrical about the centre line and separated by bodywork - UK models all had to be altered.
using the RC30 example with the web chopped out of the body work it met our regs (maybe since updated)


BM ones as a number have posted about on this thread - would then fail regardless, on this part of Construction and Use Regs ?

Additional Considerations​

• Integrated Lighting: While integrated rear lights (combining multiple functions) can be used, they must comply with the Construction and Use Regulations. This means they should not confuse other road users regarding the motorcycle's intentions.

All BMW bikes imported into the UK come with an EU certificate of compliance so no doubt if there was some sort of legal challenge that would be the starting point. Get your MOT mate to fail one and see where it goes. It would be funny if BMW had to recall all the 1250 and 1300s fitted with the rear light combos and fix them at their expense, but somehow I don't think that's likely.

I still think they're crap though, irrespective of whether they're legal or not and was mearly making an observation as a driver as to how difficult they are to see in the real world. But I care not as my 1250 RS has the old fashioned seperate indicators fitted by Hanns of Berlin.

 

[Smartbazza]

I actually think the two lights are very clear and am surprised how bright they are.

I would hope BMW would know about all regulations (ie MOT) etc before they manufacture a motorcycle.

could be a sign of evolution..

Barry

 

[RallyeGS]

Its a non-issue, that has been turned into an issue, which suits the like of 'A Bike Thing' perfectly as they make a killing from the scaremongering!

 

[IrishGaucho]

Its a non-issue, that has been turned into an issue, which suits the like of 'A Bike Thing' perfectly as they make a killing from the scaremongering!

100% I'm a firm believer that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the lights. If anything, they're TOO bright.

I have the GS, wifey an XR with the exact same lights and we both can see each other perfectly fine. At night, they're too feckin' bright like I said.

If they were 3 huge lights, people would complain and buy tiny led tail tidys. It's just the way it is...

Here's my take:

 

[HGS]

Agree, they are bright

It's not about the brightness, it's the one small light trying to do side light, indicate and brake light, especially brake and indicate at the same time which can wash out the indicator in some conditions

I like that the wizards turn the side light/brake light off when indicating and for me having the B6 brake light ensures that myoptic knobs can see whats happening

I have no concern if the OE lights are within regulations or not, just that my intentions are clear to anyone following

I cannot see the lights not being correct in OE form

 

[gsnorbert]

Hello,
a friendly and warm welcome to all here in the forum. Its Norbert from Germany and I´m riding a 1300GS.
I hate the light situation in the back and will change to weiser, but I have one more question:
Does the Weiser Kit only work with Denali B6 or can I use any kind of LED taillight?
Best regards to all of you
Norbert

 

[HGS]

Take a look on this guys site
He's living in Germany and I seem to recall him saying there is an issue with extra brake light with TUV
Can't remember which video it was

https://www.youtube.com/@justthewayitis/videos

 

[Bubb]

Hello,
a friendly and warm welcome to all here in the forum. Its Norbert from Germany and I´m riding a 1300GS.
I hate the light situation in the back and will change to weiser, but I have one more question:
Does the Weiser Kit only work with Denali B6 or can I use any kind of LED taillight?
Best regards to all of you
Norbert

Give weisser wizards a call…. I’m sure he will be able to advise you re different rear lights.
The Denali kit is straightforward, it all just plugs together, and works with no alterations straight out of the box.
In my opinion, it’s worth the money to get the Weisser wizards with the Denali light, just because it’s so simple and designed to work together.