BlueBird
Registered user
I will call bullshit on that comment
,It's a reach to the switch for left hand turns no question
Removal of Multicontroller a.k.a. Wonderwheel
- Thread starter fred_jb
- Start date
I will call bullshit on that comment
,It's a reach to the switch for left hand turns no question
fred_jb
Registered user
The only thing that beggars belief is this sort of comment.
Not sure it merits a reply but as a patient person I will try.The GS is a great bike and more importantly it was the right bike for my requirements. That doesn't mean that I bought it without testing it and without doing my research on the spec, or that I thought it was perfect. For example I personally am not a fan of the high level exhaust and its effect on luggage capacity and positioning, but I have dealt with that.
Similarly I was well aware that (for me) the wonderwheel compromises the left bar ergonomics. The TE spec included that along with the rest of the GPS prep that I wanted, so I hoped to adapt to it, but after nearly 6000 miles since buying in March came to the conclusion that it was compromising my riding experience, so I have also dealt with that.
Only sharing here in case the technical details help others in the same position. I'm not suggesting everyone should feel the same about this, so don't understand the need for some to post negative, and frankly, insulting comments about my supposed bike buying failings !
I will call bullshit on that comment
It's a reach to the switch for left hand turns no question
No more bull shit than your reply. If a rider cannot use the turn left indicator without the wonder wheel being in the way, then how does that rider turn on the hazard lights or adjust the suspension or control the cruise control ? And if you do occasionally catch the wheel - so what.
fred_jb
Registered user
Well firstly using the indicator switch, especially for a left turn, in my experience is the function that is most negatively impacted by the position of the wheel in directly obstructing access, and indirectly in forcing the rider's hand position to be further to the left than would otherwise be the case. After all, presumably BMW designed the original grip and controls for ergonomic perfection (everything they do is perfect, right?) but then introduced the wheel which probably moves the rider's hand 15mm further from the switches.
Add to that the fact that the indicator switch is probably the most used and most safety related of the controls you mention, and you should be able to understand why this is an issue to some people.
As for hitting the wheel by mistake, this is an inconvenience at best, and at worst could be a dangerous distraction.
Prehaps if the wheel had been inboard of the indicators etc,
it would be more ergonimic etc.
After all i bet you use the indicators etc, more than the thumb wheel on a journey?
it would be more ergonimic etc.
After all i bet you use the indicators etc, more than the thumb wheel on a journey?
Well we have always known that GS bikes are best suited to people who are six foot plus high and have really long arms. For the rest of us we learn to cope with all the foibles in exchange for riding one of the best bikes around. No bike suits all of us and leg position is a problem for many. We may find the op's concern strange but fair play to him in that he's found a solution that suits him. May not be others choice but in the end it's all about riding these great bikes and glad he's now happy.
fred_jb
Registered user
Moving the existing wheel is one option I'm looking at, the only problem being how to fix it in position as it is designed to be screwed on to the inner end of the grip. I'm pretty sure connecting it would be possible by extending the wires on its connector. I have ordered one from a breakers to experiment with.
The other option, which depends on the electrical characteristics of the wheel lending themselves to this, is replacing the wheel with a mini joystick or navipad device.
BlueBird
Registered user
Nope I didnt test ride one before I bought it (rallyee sport),
TBH now i have 7k up it I wouldnt have had the electric suspension or the keyless bollocks,
they had them in the dealers with all the extras all ready on, I did think the wheel operated the options on the dash like the 1600 my mate has but I was wrong, I have a garmin 660 but it aint a bmw one so wheel wont work it, I rarely use a sat nav so I will just put my 550 of the hexhead on it for what I need.
I dont give a fuck what anyone sez the indicator switch is wrong
TBH now i have 7k up it I wouldnt have had the electric suspension or the keyless bollocks,
they had them in the dealers with all the extras all ready on, I did think the wheel operated the options on the dash like the 1600 my mate has but I was wrong, I have a garmin 660 but it aint a bmw one so wheel wont work it, I rarely use a sat nav so I will just put my 550 of the hexhead on it for what I need.
I dont give a fuck what anyone sez the indicator switch is wrong
When I tested a GSA LC te in May 2014 it was fitted with the BMW Nav 5 and the thing I noticed straight away was that when riding and using the indicators I was altering the sat nav, after half an hour or so it was so bloody annoying I switched off the sat nav. When I got back to the dealer I had a short run on the bike with my Zumo 660 in the cradle to make sure it was powering up okay which it was.
When I bought my GSA I opted to keep the 660 and not buy a Nav 5 for exactly that reason.
When I bought my GSA I opted to keep the 660 and not buy a Nav 5 for exactly that reason.
Good thread mate spoiled by know it alls. No problem on the motorway or overtaking to use the indicator but coming up to a junction with using the clutch and have to indicate gives the left hand a good workout. But now I'm used to it I don't knock the wheel anymore. However I found that the position of the indicator is too high up for a natural thumb movement which causes the grief with the wheel. Swap the indicator and horn around and it should be sound. Thanks for posting such a detailed description.
Regarding the wheel rotation I reckon there is a reference signal so that it can determine the zoom in or zoom out signal.
The future is whatever colour you want.
Regarding the wheel rotation I reckon there is a reference signal so that it can determine the zoom in or zoom out signal.
The future is whatever colour you want.
fred_jb
Registered user
Thanks Tanneman (and I like your avatar pic!). I've come to expect some negativity/abuse here, though it's only a minority. Doesn't bother me, and IMO just reflects badly on those who post like that - but they don't seem to see that.
Regarding the rotation sensing, that's an interesting one. There is a circuit board inside the wheel with what appears to be two sensors on it (could be Hall effect). Inside the outer rotating part of the wheel there is a thin circular ring. I believe this is some sort of reluctor ring, almost certainly magnetic. Reluctor rings are the things used to help sense rotation - most common examples being the slotted ABS disks on bikes, and the toothed rings on many car ABS systems. However, I have read that magnetic types are also used, with these being manufactured to have alternate North and South magnetic poles built into the material. I'm not sure of exactly how this would work in the BMW wheel, but I'm pretty sure the end result is a signal showing that rotation of the jog wheel has occurred, and what direction it is in.
I am hoping that the output is the equivalent of one switch closing then re-opening for each downward jog, and a different switch doing the same for each upward jog. It seems that way because rotation of the wheel seems to trigger discrete steps in the zoom in/out on the satnav, rather than a continuous change. The left and right sideways jogs are just sensed by microswitches closing, just like all the other switches in the switch cluster, so if the up and down rotations get processed into a similar switch type output then I should be able to emulate the wheel with a simple and much smaller four way joystick or navipad device.
The problem will be if the rotation is encoded into a LIN bus signal within the wheel itself, as I would not be able to emulate that. However, I think all the other switches in the LH cluster feed into some electronic circuitry encapsulated into a recess in the base of the switch cluster, and the connector for the wheel also feeds into that space, so I hope the wheel output is not encoded, and only gets encoded on to the LIN bus, along with all the other switch inputs, in this switch cluster circuitry.
I hope to hook up a spare wheel to the bike and test this theory once I receive the secondhand wheel I have ordered. It will involve some dismantling of the wheel, and possibly cutting and extending the wires on its connector, so I don't want to do this with the original wheel.
Fred
Fred, you might like to take yourself across to one of the US websites / forums (the 1600 GT one for example) for a visit, where bods have hacked into the coding. You may find some help there.
Bods on this part of the forum are very more much concerned with gloves, though they do bitch like hell about knocking the whirly wheel, too.
Bods on this part of the forum are very more much concerned with gloves, though they do bitch like hell about knocking the whirly wheel, too.
fred_jb
Registered user
Thanks, good suggestion - I will have a look at those. I did find some stuff on a 1600 GT forum by a very talented guy who has decoded pretty much all the CANBUS messages for the 1600 and built a custom display for the bike, but so far no real detail on the wheel, though another member here has kindly obtained some info on the connections for me, which has given me a starting point. However, anything that involves low level programming is way beyond my competence I'm afraid, but if I can substitute one type of switch (in the wheel) for another (in a joystick or similar), then I might just about manage that!
Fred
That's the fellow / forum I was thinking about. You never know, he (or someone similar) may just be just the bod to help you.
GS_or_bust
Registered user
The detection of the rotation of the wheel is likely to use quadrature encoding which is described below the title 'Incremental rotary encoder'
in this Wikipedia article.
in this Wikipedia article.
fred_jb
Registered user
Thanks for that. Interesting article, though I can't see that there is any requirement for the BMW wheel to be so complex, as it does not need to know the absolute or relative position of the wheel in order to perform its limited functions. As a jog wheel I suspect it only needs to output the fact that it has moved one jog, and which direction that is in. I'm hoping that it does that by emulating the momentary closure of one switch for each upwards jog and a different switch for each downwards jog.
Fred
But there is also the left and a right function to consider..!
fred_jb
Registered user
As far as I can see the controller detects four directional movements, not unlike the four arrow keys on the typical TV remote. The rotation up and down does the movement up and down through the satnav menus, and zooms in and out when on the map screen. The left and right tilts do the left and right movements through the available screens. Finally, and this is something I only discovered recently, if you tilt right and hold it there that acts as a select for menu items - like the OK button on remotes. This long right tilt will also acknowledge and dismiss any pop up windows on the screen which are asking for an OK, so no need to use the touch screen to get rid of these.
fred_jb
Registered user
I've now received my secondhand heated grip/multicontroller and tested it on my bike. It fits and works perfectly even though I think it may have come off an R or RS rather than a GS. The heat from the grip matches the original - i.e too hot to hold with a bare hand on the highest setting, and uncomfortably hot even with gloves. On the original I found my grip puppie moderates the heat a bit, making the high setting usable. Once I have removed the controller wheel from the grip to experiment with relocating it, I will have no further use for the grip, so will probably put it in the for sale section.
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