Why don't BMW ask Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, etc. who all seem to be able to manufacture shaft drive systems without the issues that seem to befall BMW.
Seized! Driveshaft to Final Drive - only 16K miles
- Thread starter robinsonjoe
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Why don't BMW ask Honda, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi, etc. who all seem to be able to manufacture shaft drive systems without the issues that seem to befall BMW.
Bendy toy
Registered user
By the looks of it the Cardan joints used on the R1200 are under spec for the job. Are they any bigger than airhead driveshafts?
In terms of angular movement, a front wheel drive car must put serious angular loads on the driveshafts. At that end of the transmission it's all about torque. Car driveshafts run at wheel speed. Bike final drive shafts are geared down 3:1.
On the GS it seems the rear joint suffers through corrosion. The front joint handles a larger angular movement. So what about a CV at the gearbox and fully sealed Cardan at the hub?
Running 3x faster than the wheel the CV could be significantly smaller than a car driveshaft joint.
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In terms of angular movement, a front wheel drive car must put serious angular loads on the driveshafts. At that end of the transmission it's all about torque. Car driveshafts run at wheel speed. Bike final drive shafts are geared down 3:1.
On the GS it seems the rear joint suffers through corrosion. The front joint handles a larger angular movement. So what about a CV at the gearbox and fully sealed Cardan at the hub?
Running 3x faster than the wheel the CV could be significantly smaller than a car driveshaft joint.
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trainman
Registered user
key difference to car I guess is that acceleration and brake forces are in line with the shaft and not at 90 deg, maybe the shaft is a bit weedy or some of us use the bike on the rough and too many shocks over time do it in? the set up on the big Yam and Triumph at least look more manly
I do also wonder if those having re maps and upping the torque are storing up issues on the shaft and the FD (also well known for having some bearing issues)?
or maybe its all down to corrosion and if its clean and greased, no probs!!!
Does the HP2 have a different power train - if not the increases from a remap do not match BMW's claims for the HP2.
Your bike was dropped off this morning. The driveshaft is now seperated from the final drive.
All parts are fine after a good clean up, so no new parts required. Putting it all back together in the morning.
robinsonjoe
Registered user
Blimmin' Bluddy Brilliant! This is People Power at its best. Some dealers should be put up against the wall and shot for trying to fleece the unwary and for being so unprepared to be imaginative. Thanks to Bilco, Shep, Mike O, adventuredon and everyone else who steered me to Steptoe's door, and also to those who have added to this topic.
I hope that anyone else who finds themselves facing this issue can locate this thread, and see that there is a solution, and not have to face the gut wrenching panic of "sh*t this will cost me my bike" as I did.
I couldn't find this subject anywhere on the web despite a lot of looking, however it would appear to be not quite as uncommon a problem as I might have been led to believe.
Cheers GSers
Bendy toy
Registered user
Main dealers don't get chance to think out of the box because most of their work is normal servicing to the book or warranty claims. The latter is generally chuck everything out and fit new.
robinsonjoe
Registered user
Just to close the loop on this one. Happily Neil, aka "Steptoe" managed to remove, disengage, clean up, grease and re-assemble the entire set up, using only brute force, black magic and (probably) a large hammer! I am one happy camper and the bike runs absolutely fine.
I do not think that the bike actually rides any differently than it did before, when it was seized; so I do believe that my original fears of "ride it and you'll break it" were unfounded. However it is obviously not meant to be seized and is supposed to be greased and oiled from time to time. I guess it is the final drive servicing why this is supposed to be accessible/remove-able for. So I have protected my investment in the bike by actually getting it fixed rather than improved the ride.
My take-away is not to be fooled by the "recommendations" of main dealers and trust common sense (and the advice of the GSers online here) everything is usually repairable. And also not to lazily rely upon a jet-washer to clean the swing-arm, as that is probably the main reason water got in.
Finally (and I know there will be some groans at this!) Steptoe is my new GS Hero! A reliable pair of hands for your GS!
I do not think that the bike actually rides any differently than it did before, when it was seized; so I do believe that my original fears of "ride it and you'll break it" were unfounded. However it is obviously not meant to be seized and is supposed to be greased and oiled from time to time. I guess it is the final drive servicing why this is supposed to be accessible/remove-able for. So I have protected my investment in the bike by actually getting it fixed rather than improved the ride.
My take-away is not to be fooled by the "recommendations" of main dealers and trust common sense (and the advice of the GSers online here) everything is usually repairable. And also not to lazily rely upon a jet-washer to clean the swing-arm, as that is probably the main reason water got in.
Finally (and I know there will be some groans at this!) Steptoe is my new GS Hero! A reliable pair of hands for your GS!
Bendy toy
Registered user
What's the collective opinion on drilling a small hole (say 3mm) in the bottom back end of the swing arm.
Sent from a widget that can't spell.
Sent from a widget that can't spell.
Fanum
Toubab
That would feel wrong to me, but then, I know nuffink
My gut feeling would be for some sort of tapped in drain plug/valve/Non-return valve type thing.
Oh, and Steptoe's a Cnut btw
Mike3000
Registered user
Hello Steptoe, are you still in the business of repairing BMW drives please?
Give Mikeyboy a shout if Steptoe doesn't rebuild the F.D.'s
Bendy Toy was ahead of the game - he suggested the swingarm drain mod 10 years before BMW came up with it on the 1250`s!
Mikeyboy did my 06 rear hub when it was
fubarred.
Came back Better than new
fubarred.
Came back Better than new
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If the boots are correctly fitted with a waterproof grease ,for road use there should be no issues.
- Joined
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I’ll rebuild 1200 final drives up to the last of the twin cams.
As a point of fact,the only reason I’ll not do later water cooled variants is because BMW do not supply vital parts for the safe and reliable repair/ rebuild of the units.
I’ll add ,
In the 19 years I’ve been rebuilding these units,the cost of the parts has doubled,
And due to reduced U.K. stock by the mothership lead times on a rebuild may well be two weeks
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2 weeks delay , i dream of getting stuff inside 2 weeks
Guzzi fix the seizing problem , by using ......nothing , fuckall , magic .
left dry they rust a little , fret away , dropping that red rust , then they are a little worn and don't seized cos the bits are being hammered all the time.
drive shafts are not on any Guzzi maintenance sheets , except for " open drive shafts " ie V11, Daytona ,1100 Sport .
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