Silvertown Tunnel

[LOLGEOFF]

Claptrap! If the reason to charge people to use it is aimed at persuading people not to use it then what happens if there dream comes true and nobody uses it? Mission accomplished? I also heard that the free bus ride for cyclists will end after a year. If you travel/commute in west or central London you can drive your car across the river for free, if you live in the east, cough up.

 

[er-minio]

Keep in mind that the long term aim in larger cities will be to limit as much as possible (or prevent completely) private travel/private vehicles. But we're talking quite a a few years.
Surely other tolls (or the infamous per mile pricing) will pop up elsewhere over time.

 

[Steptoe]

I wrote to TfL, asking them to explain why motorcycles are levied the ‘Congestion charge’ when using the Silvertown / Blackwall tunnels, when it’s free for motorcycles to ride through the rest of London.

They replied:

View attachment 407760View attachment 407761

Have you noticed something ., They haven’t actually answered your question.

 

[richardbd]

It is a good job I do not frequent that part of Londinium much then. Sir Khan can poke him self in a dark place.

Sir Khan gives me a free Oyster card. I won’t hear a word said against him

 

[EVskiy]

Sir Khan gives me a free Oyster card. I won’t hear a word said against him

is that how it is then?

 

[richardbd]

is that how it is then?

 

[richardbd]

 

[Wapping]

Have you noticed something ., They haven’t actually answered your question.

Indeed, I did.

I’m writing to them again, when I’m back from Spa.

 

[Wapping]

Have you noticed something ., They haven’t actually answered your question.

Indeed, I did.

I’m writing to them again, when I’m back from Spa.

My reply to TfL:

Thank you for your email.

Much of your response is a generic and somewhat lazy cut’n’paste of paragraphs, much of which is unrelated to my question. I know perfectly well how to pay the charge. Why mention it, when it wasn’t what I asked for? Do you rely on ChatGPT alone to produce automated answers?

Returning to my specific question, as to why motorcyclists are charged for congestion when using the two tunnels when:

A. The QE2 crossing is free of charge.

B. The Rotherhithe tunnel is free of charge.

C. All the bridges in London are free of charge.

D. The whole of the rest of London is free of charge. This item alone rather suggests that motorcycles are not seen as a major contributor to congestion.

It is ludicrous to levy a charge on motorcycles ONLY for the Limehouse and, now, the Blackwall Tunnel, when every other crossing and indeed every other road across the length and breadth of London is all free. It is therefore possible to deduce that, by levying no congestion charge on motorcycles across London, means that TfL does not see motorcycles as causing congestion and, by implication, therefore supports and encourages their usage.

Turning to your paragraph on revenue collection. I am very far from convinced that the maths of levying the charge on motorcycles, even the smallest amount of investigation. According to Google (a common source of simple data) there are all but 41,500,000 vehicles registered in the UK. Of this number only around 3.6% are motorcycles. It is not entirely unreasonable to assume that the ratio of vehicles passing through the tunnels is broadly similar. The revenue produced by levying the charge on well under 5% of the through traffic will not pay for the Silvertown tunnel any faster, surely?

This leaves only one simple conclusion. That being, TfL has decided to levy a cynical and unique ‘tax’ on motorcyclists using two tunnels, running parallel to each other through a very small part of east London. In short, it is nothing to do with congestion at all. It’s an unfair tax, levied for no other reason than, because you can.

I look forward to receiving your considered response.

 

[Steptoe]

My reply to TfL:

Touché ..
Now that is a very well thought out and considered reply - well done Richard

 

[Wapping]

Touché ..
Now that is a very well thought out and considered reply - well done Richard

Thank you.

I’ll see what TfL has to say. Depending on their reply, my next questions to them may be a Freedom of Information enquiry as to their projected annual revenues from the two tunnels, split between two-wheeled vehicles and others. The project cost of the new tunnel is in the public domain already.

Hopefully, I’ll end up in Khan’s office, for a face-to-face.

PS Motorcyclists need to take a leaf out of the cyclists’ book. Remove their number plates and have a slow speed ride through the tunnels, blocking them up. Stick one up the man, Federation of Angry French Motorcyclists style.

 

[LOLGEOFF]

Surprised the Bladerunners haven't got involved yet!

 

[er-minio]

PS Motorcyclists need to take a leaf out of the cyclists’ book. Remove their number plates and have a slow speed ride through the tunnels, blocking them up. Stick one up the man, Angry French Motorcyclist style.

I wish you would get this worked up over the parking charges increases too
(joking!)

 

[Wapping]

Thank you.

I’ll see what TfL has to say. Depending on their reply, my next questions to them may be a Freedom of Information enquiry as to their projected annual revenues from the two tunnels, split between two-wheeled vehicles and others. The project cost of the new tunnel is in the public domain already.

Hopefully, I’ll end up in Khan’s office, for a face-to-face.

PS Motorcyclists need to take a leaf out of the cyclists’ book. Remove their number plates and have a slow speed ride through the tunnels, blocking them up. Stick one up the man, Federation of Angry French Motorcyclists style.

A reply from TfL arrived this morning.

Thank you for your enquiry received on 20 May 2025, regarding the Blackwall and Silvertown Charging Scheme.


Kindly be advised a key objective of the user charges is to manage demand and thereby lock in the benefits of


additional capacity and, importantly, manage the effects of traffic on the environment. Motorcycles like all other vehicles


benefit from the scheme though journey time savings and more reliable journeys and the increased resilience afforded


by the scheme.


Please note motorcycles also contribute to congestion, noise and air pollution as well as wear and tear of road surfaces


and, therefore, are subject to user charges. The charge level for Motorcycles is lower than other vehicle types reflecting


the fact their impact is less than other vehicles.


If you have any questions, please visit https://tfl.gov.uk/silvertown-blackwall or call us on 0343 222 2222

Odd that motorcycles are seen as pollutants, bringers of wear and tear and congestion through just one new tunnel (two, if we count the Blackwall Tunnel) but not throughout the rest of the metropolis, nor the QEII crossing. It’s a misfit, which TfL have failed to explain or justify. One might wonder if it’s a taster towards billing motorcyclists through the rest of the Congestion Charge zone.


PS I can and do have some sympathy that motorcycles (those with very noisy aftermarket exhausts) are bringers of unnecessary noise pollution. The clampdown on that will come, just as it has abroad already. It’s all of our own making and I was as guilty as the last man.

 

[er-minio]

Thanks for sharing that.

Odd that motorcycles are seen as pollutants

Not too odd, Richard.

Motorcycles were included as one of the pollution sources in the original ULEZ paperwork from a few years back, even though, a few pages before in the same document there was a pie chart where motorcycle traffic accounted for 0% (obviously rounded figures) of pollution in London.
If I remember correctly, air travel was conveniently out of the picture

I've said it many times. Motorcycles and small scooters were part of the light vehicles category up to a few years ago. Category that nowadays is used as some sort of sacred grail that will save inner city mobility.
Two wheeled transport is one of the solutions in a lot of European cities for people with medium to long commutes, but it is almost completely ignored in the UK, and adopted instead mostly by scummy people (phone snatchers, motorbike thieves, and the like***)

There is no plan for motorcycling in the future of transportation (at least from what one can see around in the proposals) and motorcycles are seen as something to curb, as you can infer from reading some of the literature provided by some of our illuminated councils (See The Liberated Zone of Camden ).

Would be interesting to see what could be done to reverse (or limit) the trend.

It’s all of our own making and I was as guilty as the last man.

Same here.


***there seems to be a trend where most of the gayest activities (electric pushbikes, mopeds, electric scooters ) are really loved by London thugs

 

[Wapping]

I think we had a slight misunderstanding over my use of the word ‘odd’. I was being mildly sarcastic towards TfL’s reference to ‘pollutant’ motorcycles, when it came to a tunnel but, seemingly accepting and even supportive,(as there is no charge) of them throughout the rest of London.

The rest of your comments are spot on. Without a doubt, the long term aim is to further reduce vehicle use in London. Ultimately, that is a ‘good thing’ no doubt. What TfL does though need to do is be honest about it its aims and methodology, starting to apply some logic to it. Expand the Congestion Charge area westwards, by all means. Boris Johnson was keen on this idea, until he turned tails, just as he did on Brexit. Bill all vehicles in the zone. It’ll be a little bit of pain (much of it very imaginary) in the very short term, then everything will settle down again. The expansion of the ULEZ zone proves this, as does the overall success of creating the bicycle lanes. It’s the dishonesty and the lack of joined-up thinking that is so disappointing.

Use the additional revenues sensibly. Subsidise further childrens’ fares. Subsidise further visitors’ day or weekly passes. Improve the network; CrossRail / the Elizabeth line is a huge success. Improve disabled parking and access. Use the river Thames more, with more north / south crossing points by simple bridges or more short ferries across. It takes money and lots of it, yes. If central government can’t or won’t provide it, then Londoners - and those outside who use our roads - will have to chip in more.

 

[mw3230]

Notwithstanding the above very pertinent comments, I used the new tunnel twice over the weekend, and other family members alsp on a number of occasions. Each time either, via the Blackwall or Silvertown tunnels, the approach was free of hold ups and the crossing from north to south and vice versa delay free. Admittedly, none of the journeys were at weekday rush hour periods but even so they were at times when hold ups and queues have regularly been experienced.
Things are looking good

 

[Steptoe]

The new Silvertown tunnel is being closed for maintenance.

Silvertown Tunnel to close over 17 nights for maintenance

General maintenance and snagging works will take place during the closures, TfL says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wapping]

It’s those pesky motorcycles, wearing it out.

 

[LOLGEOFF]

The new Silvertown tunnel is being closed for maintenance.

Silvertown Tunnel to close over 17 nights for maintenance

General maintenance and snagging works will take place during the closures, TfL says.

www.bbc.co.uk

They're only closing it during times when it's free to use.