So if you've had a wc...

Outtomunch said:
.........and of course there are the dodgy gearboxes, shite welding and a few other issues, all documneted on this forum.

I ain't knocking the bike, I like it, but your blind allegiance to the BWM brand 'that can do no wrong' is as blinkered as those that knock the bike 'cos they don't like change or 'cos it's made in a foreign country other than Germany :rob

Get real :)

Andres
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The welding isn't shite and the 'dodgy' gear boxes are 90% opinion - just because someone says something on this site doesn't make it documented evidence.
 
nick.ct said:
Let's hope you are crap at your job ( you've been back 15 times already so there's hope ) and that the Chinese never get the hang of quality control.

Maybe then we'll get a chance of a few more manufacturing jobs in this country
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Why should he be crap at his job?

If you want a product tooled and manufactured in China you have several choices, you can choose the unit price by the level of quality you require, fairly obvious statement isn't it:D

But you have to have one of us over there to ensure that once you leave the factory the production does not switch to lower quality components, yes China and the other eastern countries can produce more cheaply but consistency is the problem.

Our super power LED lamps now sourced from Poland as China couldn't be trusted:rob product marginally higher in cost but quality issues resolved.

Just because the production cost is cheaper doesn't necessarily mean the consumer gets a saving, the manufacturer can buy cheap and sell high keeping the extra profit.
So "blind allegiance to the BWM brand" (great phrase), will only negotiate quality to the lowest acceptable limit, BMW as other manufacturers have to keep the sales figures up, either by volume or cheaper sourcing, blind allegiance in accepting that all will be put right.... Another argument altogether .
 
Engineer said:
Any of our suppliers wouldn't have been given 15 chances - you should have found a new supplier a long time ago.
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We haven't given any supplier 15 chances (maybe 2-3) - the trips are for different issues. Unfortunately, price is everything as consumers want everything as cheap as possible so it is inevitable that quality suffers.

The other issue is that the Chinese are fine at unskilled assembly on a production line, but not very good if something needs skilled assembly work i.e. hand building.

If we (a market leading multi-national) can't get it right with our resources, what chance do the small players have? I sure as hell wouldn't buy a Chinese made crash helmet :eek
 
nick.ct said:
Let's hope you are crap at your job ( you've been back 15 times already so there's hope ) and that the Chinese never get the hang of quality control.

Maybe then we'll get a chance of a few more manufacturing jobs in this country
Click to expand...

It's not the quality which will kill Chinese manufacturing, but their labour rates. I know the rate for skilled fitters has been increasing at something around 11%/annum in the 15 years we've been there and is now at around 40% of a Western European wage i.e. very similar to manufacturing in Eastern Europe, but with more transportation and reassembly costs.

Sadly most multi-nationals will just move production to the next low-cost country rather than back to Europe e.g. Thailand and India.
 
sven said:
....
The other issue is that the Chinese are fine at unskilled assembly on a production line, but not very good if something needs skilled assembly work i.e. hand building.

....
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They're also very good at massaging the truth and getting up to allsorts when your back's turned....hence the use of Chinese sourced materials is a huge no-no in our (oil) industry......
 
What are the facts with respect to components for the BMW WC being made in China ? Is there a reliable reference we can all see ?

No real problem with that, as long as the Quality Control against specification is appropriate. However, remember that if the specification is inadequate, the quality may well reflect that. It is BMW's responsibility to set the specification and ensure it is met....everything else is conjecture and supposition.
 
keeping it simples...

Yes I'd have another.



......but maybe in my own choice of colour,, even though I have the best,, ;) Thunder,,, the mix of finishes and shades is awful,,,:thumb2
 
but if we are discussing Quality.. start with the standard screen made of thick cling film... Ive never known a screen scratch/mark so easy...

But generally I think Ive a Wednesday bike.. it seems ok..:aidan
 
It's happening already: Africa is the new China.

My latest 2 pairs of steel toe-cappers for work are "Made in Tunisia"...

:blast
 
My very fine dump this morning was made up mostly of Chinese components :thumb2

Sunday's mostly Indian.
 
Rob Farmer said:
Do you want another one an hour later?

80% made in china apparently. And only assembled in Germany. That's a lot of wonga for a Chinese bike and explains the piss poor quality issues

The non Chinese parts include, brakes, exhaust, tyres.
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Hell No
 
Iv'e thought about this for some time and would I buy another, short answer no. Well not for another couple of years until the problems have been sorted out anyway.

My gearbox problem has taken the shine of the bike for me and consequently, I haven't gelled with it. That's not to say I don't like it (its a motorbike). In most instances its very good (as long as I'm travelling in 4th and above). Comfort good, tank range good and handling/brakes excellent

Build quality is distinctly average (for a premium priced product) patchy paint on frame, iffy weld quality, wobbly screen fit and rust on spoke heads (in the best summer we've had for years).

Biggest niggle's for me, the size of the numbers on the speedo, this needs to be addressed given how rapidly you can get this thing to go and yes I have got the digital speedo set up on the dash but in direct sunlight its difficult to read. Also it seems to me the angle of the screen is too acute, if it could be tilted forward another inch or so, I would be out of the buffeting zone.

Sorry if this has come over as being negative, its not meant to be as I've a brilliant bike just trying to get out and to all of you with perfect bikes, I'm really happy for you and just a little bit jealous.
 
I own a Gs and recently bought a 17 year old Honda to commute long distances on-the Honda is head and shoulders above the Beemer, and knocks it into a cocked hat for build quality. Maybe the Crosstourer/Runner is the way to go(until the two girl guides go round the world on one) and see how quickly Bmw pick their heels up and improve the quality of their bikes,lets face it people are paying a considerable sum of hard earned cash for these machines-Bmw should be ashamed of the problems customers are facing.
 
nick.ct said:
Let's hope you are crap at your job ( you've been back 15 times already so there's hope ) and that the Chinese never get the hang of quality control.

Maybe then we'll get a chance of a few more manufacturing jobs in this country
Click to expand...

Are the Poles running out of things to do?
 
Rockeye said:
I own a Gs and recently bought a 17 year old Honda to commute long distances on-the Honda is head and shoulders above the Beemer, and knocks it into a cocked hat for build quality. Maybe the Crosstourer/Runner is the way to go(until the two girl guides go round the world on one) and see how quickly Bmw pick their heels up and improve the quality of their bikes,lets face it people are paying a considerable sum of hard earned cash for these machines-Bmw should be ashamed of the problems customers are facing.
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Yeah but Hondas are boring - if you want to be boring, dull, middle class and reliable then buy a Honda.

There isn't a single current Honda motorcycle that I would look twice at - their current range is about as exciting as that ancient Dullsville thingy that saddos in hi-viz ride.
 
Or keep both and use the Honda when you want reliable transport and use the Bmw for fun-when your not replacing final drives,clutches,gearboxes etc!

Don`t get me wrong I love the Beemer and as you say lots more character and fun,but as regards build quality it is IMHO a no brainer which mark is better, Bmw customers deserve better build quality.
 
Engineer said:
Yeah but Hondas are boring - if you want to be boring, dull, middle class and reliable then buy a Honda.

There isn't a single current Honda motorcycle that I would look twice at - their current range is about as exciting as that ancient Dullsville thingy that saddos in hi-viz ride.
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I wouldn't say a Fireblade was boring. How boring is it when your precious GS keeps developing faults as documented repeatedly on this site.

Methinks you wear rose tinted spectacles Mr Engineer.
 
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