Maxwell.
Is your bike an 1100 or 1150, what age is it.
Russ.
Is your bike an 1100 or 1150, what age is it.
Russ.
City Slicker
Guest
Re: Surgerying 'The Surge'
Was this the ONLY thing that you did that eliminated the surging (apart from TB balancing)?maxwell johnson said:I found the throttle body bearings worn, noticeable by a clicking sound (like loose tappets). I replaced the bearings bought from a freindly carb' renovator. Now no clicking and the dreaded 'surge ' has gone. The bearings are removed by knocking them from the inside out. Bearing number..812DU D6A... It would seem the surge occurs when the bearings are worn allowing the butterfly to flap causing incorrect mixture also back firing on the overrun.Try it its cheaper than new TBs.
maxwell johnson
Guest
surging
My bike is a 1997 1100GS 30k miles. After installing the new bearings I just balanced the TBs with a mercury balancer and adjusted the cables.
My bike is a 1997 1100GS 30k miles. After installing the new bearings I just balanced the TBs with a mercury balancer and adjusted the cables.
Malky
Guest
Interesting article
Came across this interesting article (seen on the BMW club list) entitled Purge The Surge
Came across this interesting article (seen on the BMW club list) entitled Purge The Surge
R Savage
Guest
Dave Barrett said:
By 'plug' do you mean the Country Coding Plug, which is basically a relay box with some, more or no linked pins? If so, they are about £2.50 from Prestige BMW...Slightly less than new spark plugs methinks.
Rgds Richard
R Savage
Guest
Re: Surgerying 'The Surge'
Maxwell,
How many miles had your bike done when you noticed the clicking?
Rgds Richard
maxwell johnson said:I found the throttle body bearings worn, noticeable by a clicking sound (like loose tappets). I replaced the bearings bought from a freindly carb' renovator. Now no clicking and the dreaded 'surge ' has gone. The bearings are removed by knocking them from the inside out. Bearing number..812DU D6A... It would seem the surge occurs when the bearings are worn allowing the butterfly to flap causing incorrect mixture also back firing on the overrun.Try it its cheaper than new TBs.
Maxwell,
How many miles had your bike done when you noticed the clicking?
Rgds Richard
City Slicker
Guest
This morning I finally got round to performing Lentini's Zero=Zero TPS Adjustment and early indications are promising as I have test ridden it, and although I am being a bit over-sensitive about this and think I feel something, whatever it is, is barely noticeable and may be my imagination. In any case if it doesn't materialise in the next good rideout I will be very happy.
Just to recap, my bike did not suffer from surging until after my 24,000 service. I seemed to notice it at about 26,000 miles, so it may have had nothing to do with the service, but I suspect that whatever adjustment I made induced the effect.
This makes my bike a perfect candidate to track the surging down because I know exactly what has been done to the bike.
Rocker endfloat and valves set
throttle body balance
replaced plugs for Bosch
In addition I knew that the right TB was worn and that the throttle cables were stiff.
Until this morning I had replaced the TB for a new one. Made no difference. I lubricated the throttle cables and they are like new again. No difference. I reverted to NGK plugs. No difference. removed the cat. No difference. Changed the chip. No difference. This leaves only two other things to check now.
Correct operation of Lambda probe
Valve lash
I haven't readjusted the valves since the 24k service. I know that they were set at spec, but I have read in places that increasing the valve lash may have a positive effect in surging. This will be my next step if I notice surging after today.
Unlike Bandit, who will happily claim to have found the cure for cancer the moment he spots an asprin, I won't say for definite that Lentini's procedure fixes surging, but it may be a step in the right direction.
Will keep you posted.
Just to recap, my bike did not suffer from surging until after my 24,000 service. I seemed to notice it at about 26,000 miles, so it may have had nothing to do with the service, but I suspect that whatever adjustment I made induced the effect.
This makes my bike a perfect candidate to track the surging down because I know exactly what has been done to the bike.
Rocker endfloat and valves set
throttle body balance
replaced plugs for Bosch
In addition I knew that the right TB was worn and that the throttle cables were stiff.
Until this morning I had replaced the TB for a new one. Made no difference. I lubricated the throttle cables and they are like new again. No difference. I reverted to NGK plugs. No difference. removed the cat. No difference. Changed the chip. No difference. This leaves only two other things to check now.
Correct operation of Lambda probe
Valve lash
I haven't readjusted the valves since the 24k service. I know that they were set at spec, but I have read in places that increasing the valve lash may have a positive effect in surging. This will be my next step if I notice surging after today.
Unlike Bandit, who will happily claim to have found the cure for cancer the moment he spots an asprin, I won't say for definite that Lentini's procedure fixes surging, but it may be a step in the right direction.
Will keep you posted.
City Slicker
Guest
Oh, I forgot to add this...
If there is anyone with a bike suffering from surging and prepared to come to central London for me to work on it, I would like to see whether this procedure would help your bike.
Please be aware that while this procedure will cause no harm to the bike, as soon as the blue paint is cracked on the adjusting screws it voids your warranty as as far as the engine management system is concerned. If you're in warranty this is a problem, so until I know for sure that this procedure works to fix the surge, please, out of warranty bikes only.
OR, bring a pot of blue enamel with you
If there is anyone with a bike suffering from surging and prepared to come to central London for me to work on it, I would like to see whether this procedure would help your bike.
Please be aware that while this procedure will cause no harm to the bike, as soon as the blue paint is cracked on the adjusting screws it voids your warranty as as far as the engine management system is concerned. If you're in warranty this is a problem, so until I know for sure that this procedure works to fix the surge, please, out of warranty bikes only.
OR, bring a pot of blue enamel with you
bandit
Guest
bitch
Ok city i'm sure you are right.
I was only trying to help.
Can we stop the bitching now ?
Ok city i'm sure you are right.
I was only trying to help.
Can we stop the bitching now ?
City Slicker.
0=0 certainly seemed to cure my surging or at least appeared to.
The procedure [0=0] was carried out along with my adjusting the RH throttle plate stop screw rather that just the air by-pass screw for the first time.
With hindsight I think I'd balance the TBs' with the RH throttle plate stop screw before I 0=0'd just to see it that did the trick.
Russ.
0=0 certainly seemed to cure my surging or at least appeared to.
The procedure [0=0] was carried out along with my adjusting the RH throttle plate stop screw rather that just the air by-pass screw for the first time.
With hindsight I think I'd balance the TBs' with the RH throttle plate stop screw before I 0=0'd just to see it that did the trick.
Russ.
darren
Guest
Slicker: It's a pity that my Adventure is new and under warranty 'cos it surges like a dog and two dealer services and lots of grumbling haven't cured it yet. My Bike has done just short of 10,000 now and I reckon that this is the single most disappointing thing about my bike.
Comments from the dealer like "Try riding up a gear" pi*s me off especially when riding in town etc., this is just not feasable and come, I just spent £9000+ for Christs sake.
Anyway, not wishing to moan I would have been happy for someone to tincker and spend some time to attempt to resolve this annoying problem.
Cheers, Darren
Comments from the dealer like "Try riding up a gear" pi*s me off especially when riding in town etc., this is just not feasable and come, I just spent £9000+ for Christs sake.
Anyway, not wishing to moan I would have been happy for someone to tincker and spend some time to attempt to resolve this annoying problem.
Cheers, Darren
My 1100 was surging quite badly. I messed about with vacuum gauges and was planning to buy a Twinmax. I came acroos a link on Micapeak and built my own gauges:-
http://www.gsclubuk.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1944
Since I've been using this kit to balance the bodies the surging has disappeared completly. It only costs pennies so what have you got to loose?
http://www.gsclubuk.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1944
Since I've been using this kit to balance the bodies the surging has disappeared completly. It only costs pennies so what have you got to loose?
Rob.
Have your DIY gauges show any inclination to suck oil into the engine.
Gotta admit it's this that has put me of building a set myself.
Russ.
Have your DIY gauges show any inclination to suck oil into the engine.
Gotta admit it's this that has put me of building a set myself.
Russ.
My 1150 surged when I got it but fitting a Y piece completely solved it. No other messing around was done beyond standard dealer servicing. I've since put a Sebring road silencer on and had a Superchip fitted but these were not to stop any surging as this had already gone.
Boxer,
Yes it is possible that oil or hydraulic fluid can get sucked in the inlet, that’s why it's best to have fairly long pipes. Hugh Kenny suggests using Hydraulic brake fluid or Engine oil so that no harm is done if it does get sucked in. I had hydraulic fluid sucked into my inlet and the engine didn't miss a beat. The fluid only moves fairly quickly when the sync is a long way out if you balance the bodies regularly the drift is slow and easily controlled.
Yes it is possible that oil or hydraulic fluid can get sucked in the inlet, that’s why it's best to have fairly long pipes. Hugh Kenny suggests using Hydraulic brake fluid or Engine oil so that no harm is done if it does get sucked in. I had hydraulic fluid sucked into my inlet and the engine didn't miss a beat. The fluid only moves fairly quickly when the sync is a long way out if you balance the bodies regularly the drift is slow and easily controlled.
When I got the 1150 new in April, it did surge but not as much as some of you seem to be experianceing.After my 600 service I clean air filter,check valves and rocker end float and balance injectors every 2-3000.I use a morgans carbtune.Being a mechanic by trade I can usually get things spot on.This seems to keep the surging at a minimum.Every thing to do with the engine is totaly standard although I quite fancy a y piece next.
Until the warrenty runs out I aint gonna mess about with Rob Lentinis 0 to 0.Ive done 0 to 0 on out of warrenty bikes and after the first time you do it , its easy.
My surging isnt bad enough to risk messing up the warrenty.
Keep bugging your dealer if your bikes under warrenty.
PS The 0=0 will not neccasary cure your surging.So b4 going down that road try everything else first.
Until the warrenty runs out I aint gonna mess about with Rob Lentinis 0 to 0.Ive done 0 to 0 on out of warrenty bikes and after the first time you do it , its easy.
My surging isnt bad enough to risk messing up the warrenty.
Keep bugging your dealer if your bikes under warrenty.
PS The 0=0 will not neccasary cure your surging.So b4 going down that road try everything else first.
City Slicker
Guest
I think this is correct. I've noticed that surging is still evident, albeit to a lesser degree, and most certainly within acceptable limits now. It may be possible that an adjustment could be made with different values for 'zero' voltage or the throttle stop position voltage in order to eliminate it altogether.
I'd like to track down the cause of surging, so I will keep you posted when I have modified the valve lash and/or checked the lambda sensor.
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