The Big Fight - 1190S v 1190R

[Giles]

... ...That along with headstock bearing ?? (Is that what its called)adjustment ......

This seems to be a common niggle - I know quite a few new 1190 owners who have had to have their headrace bearings tightened up ...

 

[cookie]

This seems to be a common niggle - I know quite a few new 1190 owners who have had to have their headrace bearings tightened up ...

I had to do it on my S, but the R seems ok at the moment (1000 odd miles).

Only takes ten minutes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Yup, ditto (on my R) at around 2000 miles just under a year ago. They've been fine since.

Andres

 

[cookie]

update:

just come back from a quick run down the coast. the 1190R is undoubtedly THE most FUN bike i have ever ridden. it's just perfect for the badly surfaced, tiny back roads i love riding so much. now the suspension has bedded in, i find it's pretty much perfect on what KTM call Comfort settings - great absorption of bumps and ride quality is nearer ohlins than wilbers. unlike the EDS bike, i feel no need to alter settings mid ride. that'll be down to the quality of the units then

one small niggle is how hard it is to up the preload on the rear shock. Comfort is 4 turns in from minimum. after that it gets progressively harder to turn the badly placed knob. i had it up to 6 or 8 turns a few weeks back to take a passenger, and the adjuster was seriously stiff by then. shock itself worked ok though. if i could have remembered which screw did rebound, and had a screwdriver handy, i could have got it better. KTM screwed up with that preload adjuster - i wonder if it's even hydraulic? i'd say not. never felt an increase in resistance while adjusting an ohlins or wilbers before. maybe it's just fecked?

in further testing on dual carriageways, i now find the small R screen, ok regarding buffeting, but a bit lacking in protection. fortunately i have an SA screen tucked away that i can quickly install for longer journeys.

 

[Giles]

update: ......just come back from a quick run down the coast. the 1190R is undoubtedly THE most FUN bike i have ever ridden. it's just perfect for the badly surfaced, tiny back roads i love riding so much......

Absolutely right .... that long legged suspension, bonkers motor for a three second squirt of nuclear fusion before coming off the gas ....

It's the perfect b road Hooner ....


<a href="https://gileslamb.smugmug.com/Backtoschool/i-dMtfJzd/A"><img src="https://gileslamb.smugmug.com/Backtoschool/i-dMtfJzd/1/L/today2-L.jpg" alt=""></a>

 

[cookie]

nothing cooler than leaning a bike against a tree

 

[GS TRV]

Fine for C roads. B roads are prob better left to the 160 SA

 

[cookie]

If that was true, I'd have bought one

The SA is a bloody good bike, but it's not for me. I was only thinking a couple of hours ago how glad I was that I bought the R over the SA. There's something very special about the R, but in the nicest possible way, it's not for everyone.

That doesn't mean I think I'm special, but I just gel with that bike and you gel with yours. Other, less fortunate folk, gel with Hondas.

 

[Timolgra]

nothing cooler than leaning a bike against a tree

You're not wrong

 

[Jumpjim]

I found my 1190S an absolute blast through the Alps last year.

I'd like to put up a beautifully composed and framed picture of me cornering on the Col d'Iseran but unfortunately Arsey didn't stop to return the favour

Anyway I think I'm smack bang in the middle of the design weight range at 80Kgs. I used Sport mode in anger on the Route Napoleon on an afternoon hoon with Arsey up from Cannes to Castellane and the difference was significantly stiffer suspension which I found better but it's very subjective.

I've put a 1290SA screen and front mask on it and it feels fine for motorway runs now whilst looking very integrated on the bike.

Overall I'm loving mine as a replacement for my '04 GS and looking forward to the Outer Hebrides this May. I can't recommend the Orange side enough. Great fun all round

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

..............

one small niggle is how hard it is to up the preload on the rear shock. Comfort is 4 turns in from minimum. after that it gets progressively harder to turn the badly placed knob. i had it up to 6 or 8 turns a few weeks back to take a passenger, and the adjuster was seriously stiff by then. shock itself worked ok though. if i could have remembered which screw did rebound, and had a screwdriver handy, i could have got it better. KTM screwed up with that preload adjuster - i wonder if it's even hydraulic? i'd say not. never felt an increase in resistance while adjusting an ohlins or wilbers before. maybe it's just fecked?

.............

Glad you've made the right decision, I've just got back in form a nice long blat on mine and, well, the bike never ever ceases to put a huge grin on my face

Re your knob.......... I find similar with mine and have since day one been really nervous over how it would pan out over time (get stiffer/knob stripping the spines it's on and no longer working) however, what I have done is every now and again wound it up fully, unwound it and then put it back where it should be IYSWIM. This has definitely kept it looser and less prone to going really stiff. I do find the shape of it not easy to grip though which doesn't help matters - one like that fitted to my old GS would be a lot easier to use.

Andres

 

[Peak-Park]

nothing cooler than leaning a bike against a tree

3 might

 

[cookie]

as i could hear it squeak as i turned it, i felt it might be a seal in the adjuster. i dropped some oil down inside the handle, the squeak has gone, and it is slightly easier to turn.

well, it would be if the handle wasn't all oily

i think keeping it moving as you suggest is a good idea. as for the knob stripping, i think all the shock parts are available separately.

edit: i just checked. the preload adjuster is one part - £204+VAT

 

[NickD]

A good read - any comments on the 'under arse' heating problem? You finding this okay or are heat shields a must?
Cheers

 

[cookie]

I have the basic KTM supplied tinfoil under the seat on mine, and barely notice the heat until ambient goes over about 25C.
It was well over 30C in Malaga last year and it was ok, but I wouldn't fancy being stuck in traffic much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cookie]

just a quick update:

having now done a 2K trip on my 1190R, two up and fully loaded with luggage i feel i can say that the swap from S to R has been totally justified. last years jaunt on the S was marred by wallowy handling and the odd bottoming of the rear suspension. no such issues with the R on similar terrain and even greater temperatures. with the preload wound up to 14 on the back and all other settings in "Street" it was near spot on. TBH i felt a tad more rebound on the rear would have made it perfect, but i didn't have the long screwdriver with me that is required to get to the adjuster. it wasn't a problem enough to make me buy one, so i left it.

i reckon this R gets even hotter than my old S though.

 

[Byronavitch]

the background:
4 years on an 1150GS, 4 years on a 1200GSA followed by another 3 years on a twin cam GSA. for many of those years i also ran a R100GSPD alongside, then a R80G/S which i still have.
understandably i think. i felt i need a change.

had to be not a GS and not even a BMW, so i bought a KTM1190. for the purposes of this comparison, we’ll call it an S model.

TBH i wasn’t totally bowled over on the 2 road tests i took the demo bike on. i liked it a lot, but it wasn’t the fabulous allrounder the TC was.

the TC had custom Wilbers non ESA suspension that was perfect for loaded two up hooning, but it could be a bit crashy one up. i felt i could maybe have gone down from 180Nm spring on the back and still cope 2 up but i never bothered. it was still very good solo.
the S was softer (160Nm spring + lighter bike) and despite my deep rooted suspicion of stock suspension units, i couldn’t really fault it. quick spin with mrs cookie on the back and it seemed ok. she even said how comfy it was.
i wanted a road bike. i wasn’t interested in the R, and they didn’t have a demo so i never gave it much consideration.

a couple of weeks later, i traded the TC in for an 1190S. a bit of a whim really, but it was a change, it wasn’t a GS, wasn’t a BMW, and it wasn’t sensible but it was metallic orange and did go like fuck!

i never really wanted the EDS suspension model, but the manual is a special order from KTM + i thought it would resell better, so i got the electronic model. not such a wise move as it turned out.

i came to like it a lot. the more i rode it the more i liked it. i pretty much always left it in 1 rider Load position and Comfort damping. when the pace upped a bit i would sometimes up the damping to Street which was nearly always bang on. i do remember a couple of occasions where i wanted more and tried Sport. both times it was too much and i went straight back to Street. might have been nice to have some more granular adjustment. not really a big issue for me though.

the steering was the hardest thing to get used to. very different to the GS. much quicker and less predictable for me. at times when counter steering it into a bend, quite different changing pressure on the bars was needed to keep it on a constant radius, a bit like the tyre was a bit down on pressure. after a while i never noticed it anymore, but the bike was a little tricky to place *just so*, and my riding changed to be very much more “point and squirt” through corners. several people i ride with commented on this and they did not seem like terribly positive comments

fast forward to October this year and mrs cookie and myself are going to the south of spain on our first trip together on the bike. a quick blast with her and simulated luggage load went better than i expected, i was hopeful.

in practice it was fecking awful. the ride height at the back was miles too low. it didn’t affect the steering as much as i thought, but it would regularly bottom out even on motorways sometimes. on the lovely spanish back roads it was hopeless. max preload and max damping and it would bottom frequently and wallow badly. as the suspension heated up, it got worse. it even fooled me into thinking it wasn’t that bad a couple of times when first starting off in the morning, but it wouldn’t last more than a couple of miles. i decided i’d never buy another bike with proprietary electronic suspension units that couldn’t be upgraded.

….so when i got back home i went back to the dealer and chopped it in for an R

this what i think of the 2 versions….


1190 ADV S

looks great. always preferred the cohesive styling to the R’s 90s shell suit colour scheme. yes, it does look like a Varedero, but i can’t say the comparison has ever bothered me.
i found myself with a strange desire to keep the bike spotless. i’ve never had that before, but it did look much better when shiny.

suspension is perfectly good as long as you don’t stray outside it’s working parameters.
unfortunately working effectively two-up is outside those parameters for me.
one-up, the spring rate was bang on and gave a firm yet fairly supple ride. never came close to bottomming it, and i think i gave it a few opportunities

the electronic suspension is occasionally handy and very easy to adjust. sadly it is what it is. no one makes a replacement if you find it wanting (i did). i guess it’s possible to find someone to re spring it, but it would definitely need re valving as the damping is lacking at higher preloads already. bottom line is, it’s a basic emulsion shock and i wanted better.

handling is good, if a little weird to me. see remarks above.

fabulous engine and gearbox. on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.

seat on high position gave me great legroom and the “on the bike” riding position i prefer. narrow bars help position the rider towards the front of the bike. again, given a choice i’d rather be more over the front wheel rather than back. quite reasonable stretch to the ground for my little legs. i’m 5’10” but 31” inside leg.

problems: none




1190 ADV R

i’ve not had it long and not quite done 500 miles on it, but i’m coming to rather like the, er, challenging colour scheme. most people i speak to seem to prefer it, so it’s probably just me. the longer suspension units certainly give the bike a better stance visually.

the suspension is rock hard and ricochets off rippled tarmac. the 14> R is fitted with a 180Nm rear spring and it’s very apparent. adjustment has not helped much. in fairness, it’s brand new and i would expect it to settle down and become more compliant after 1K/2K miles.
whatever. being conventional, it is adjustable for all the usual parameters by the owner and more still by a specialist. i can even lob it and fit an Ohlins unit.
however, i’m pretty i’m confident it will handle two-up hooning with aplomb without going to those lengths

the steering is more natural. it seems to suit my riding better than the S. corners flow more. with no more point and squirt. i got on it, rode it, it felt natural straight away.
the gyro effect of the 21” front wheel is very apparent after the S, but it’s still easy to turn in, but has an old skool stability the S lacks. a bit more relaxed than the S, i think.

i’m a little concerned about the narrow tyres. i’m sure they’ll be ok, but there is very little choice for road tyres. one really - Conti TA 2s.
did 150 gentle running in miles and the chicken strips are all but gone. i have read reports on ADV Rider from two riders who reckon they rode right off the edge.

the wider bars and deeper seat cut out make the position more “in” than “on”. not so much over the front either. maybe not a bad thing with that skinny tyre. mirrors marginally better placed though.

same fabulous engine and gearbox. still on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.
this 2015 bike may even be smoother than the old one.

the 18” rear tyre might make the R slightly higher geared? it’s not obvious anyway.

the OEM R seat is harder, yet more comfy than S OEM as it’s a better shape,. KTM have obviously removed foam to get the seat height down to an acceptable distance. there is only one position which is low. as a result, there is less legroom and the seat does not mate up with the tank cut outs nicely.
the R seat being thinner is definitely hotter.
i fitted the two piece Ergo seat from the S the other day and it has transformed comfort on the R. generally more comfortable, cooler and the shocks from the firm suspension are much less noticeable.
downsides: it’s a little bit higher than the OEM R seat when the Low position and looks crap in comparison. it has a bit of that that broken back look that the 1150 GS suffers from.
if i could ride it in the high position, it would fit the tank better.

there is less wiring obscuring the ignition as there is no EDS on the fork tops. this makes the awkwardly deep place switch probably 50% easier to use.
not having the EDS CPU means there is more storage in the tail too.

being a 2015 bike, it benefits from the better starter motor and also the slightly better air box. the headlight shell is different too, and extends further back over the frame. you can no longer adjust the headlight angle without removing a bit of fairing. doing so on the S was fecking awkward, so not a big loss.

i’m happy to say the cleaning OCD is subsiding. the R is happier being a dirty girl than the S.

problems: TPS unit in rear tyre has slight leak from new. needs a new unit and i’m still waiting for that.


i can’t explain it, but the R has more “soul” somehow. it’s like it’s the hard core dual purpose bike KTM always wanted to make and then they tweaked it with the S after to scoop up some of the GS soft boys market
having said that, the S is probably the better bike for most people, especially if they are much under 6 foot. if the suspension had been better, or i could have put an Ohlins on it easier, i’d still have it.
that would have been a shame though, as i definitely prefer the R


no such thing as a keeper, or is there?

I bought a new 1190r last year rode the 1190s first did less than 5 miles could not wait to bring it back at the time I was riding a Caponord 1200 the problem for me is the Electronic suspension on both bikes so ended up going home on the 1190r thought the handling on the road was very vague but loved the engine did not like having a Burnt arse either gone back to 990 Adventure the only thing I miss is bit more Grunt but love the Bike just ABs