"The big unknown"

[phooey]

Cant help but wonder what the courts decision might have been had Ms Clancy died in the collision and Mr Hayes survived.?

It would never have got to court if the evidence, as it would appear from the police investigation, showed that it was the fault of the car driver and not the motorcyclist.

imho.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

its strange but i onlystarted bringing my wife pillion on the bike in the last year or two and after the second long run she turned around to me and said
"why is every car driver trying to kill us" this included a car tring to drive across us while we were parked at traffic lights in the middle of a town
she was fit to hit the back of the car with her hand while it was still coming back on us

we dont need hi viz or the like we need people to respect bikes on the road nd give them some room and watch out for us

that woman saw 1 headlight coming and said i will chance it what harm can a bike to to me in my car

It's not the pulling out in front of me that I mind, we all have to use the road but when they pull a dangerous maneuver and then I check and there is NOBODY behind me on the road. That's when I get annoyed. Some people just have to be in front of the bike. Xillobs.

 

[mrsroynie]

I remember hearing about the accident on the radio last year. We had only just moved over to Co. Clare.

I hate to say this, but I am constantly appalled by general driving standards in Ireland (well, Co. Clare at least, but I suspect it is pretty much the same everywhere else) - particularly, women's driving!!! It is almost as if they take a different test from the men ... or may be examiners don't expect them to measure up to the same standards*.

Alternative test syndrome: inconsistent speed and steering, erratic parking and reversing manoeuvres, inattention, hesitancy ... most of them would fail the UK test.

My bet is that Ms Clancy's manoeuvre was slow and unpredictable. Rather than make her mind up and pull away smoothly, she probably hesitated or stopped in the middle of the road unexpectedly, giving the motorcyclist nowhere to go.

*I do have a personal anecdote to support this theory. Years ago, my grandmother had to retake her test at 70. She lived in Glandore, Co. Cork. She wasn't the best of drivers, but she wasn't that bad either. Anyway, she successfully negotiated the streets of Skibereen and arrived back at the test centre. As she was parking, she backed into the car behind and broke its headlight. "Oh dear", she said, "But I'm sure it will be alright. I know the owner." "That's grand Mrs D", said the examiner, "You've passed anyway."

 

[the celt]

I remember hearing about the accident on the radio last year. We had only just moved over to Co. Clare.

I hate to say this, but I am constantly appalled by general driving standards in Ireland (well, Co. Clare at least, but I suspect it is pretty much the same everywhere else) - particularly, women's driving!!! It is almost as if they take a different test from the men ... or may be examiners don't expect them to measure up to the same standards*.

Alternative test syndrome: inconsistent speed and steering, erratic parking and reversing manoeuvres, inattention, hesitancy ... most of them would fail the UK test.

My bet is that Ms Clancy's manoeuvre was slow and unpredictable. Rather than make her mind up and pull away smoothly, she probably hesitated or stopped in the middle of the road unexpectedly, giving the motorcyclist nowhere to go.

*I do have a personal anecdote to support this theory. Years ago, my grandmother had to retake her test at 70. She lived in Glandore, Co. Cork. She wasn't the best of drivers, but she wasn't that bad either. Anyway, she successfully negotiated the streets of Skibereen and arrived back at the test centre. As she was parking, she backed into the car behind and broke its headlight. "Oh dear", she said, "But I'm sure it will be alright. I know the owner." "That's grand Mrs D", said the examiner, "You've passed anyway."

I am quoting this thread just incase I have misread it
some where in a dream like state...
if it appears again as i read it first i will reply

 

[the celt]

I hate to say this, but I am constantly appalled by general driving standards in Ireland (well, Co. Clare at least, but I suspect it is pretty much the same everywhere else) - particularly, women's driving!!!.

Going to take this a few lines at a time...
you suspect it is pretty much the same everywhere else, you suspect ???
did you arrive in Co Clare on a magic carpet that lowered its wheels on
the first bit of Clare tarmac, or maybe you drove the whole way with
your eyes closed ???
as for women drivers totally agree
wouldnt let the stupid cows near anything man made

 

[GerryC]

...as for women drivers ...wouldnt let the stupid cows near anything man made

 

[the celt]

It is almost as if they take a different test from the men ... or may be examiners don't expect them to measure up to the same standards*.

You hit the nail on the head there Mrs Roynie
for the Irish female to pass her test in dear old Ireland
all they have to do is turn up on the right day of the test
with their tits out, half a pint of butter milk, a note from
the local priest stating she is a virgin and of good stock,
with a packet of Kings cheese n onion while knitting an Aran jumper.

As for the Irish examiners believe me they are all as thick as pig shit
I have no fear in writing this as I know them there fools can not read
or will ever ask anybody to translate these funny letters in front
of them here.

 

[mrsroynie]

...
you suspect it is pretty much the same everywhere else, you suspect ???
did you arrive in Co Clare on a magic carpet that lowered its wheels on
the first bit of Clare tarmac, or maybe you drove the whole way with
your eyes closed ???

Good point, well presented

 

[the celt]

Good point, well presented

Here hold on to your horses...
Id be only starting... begging your pardon me lady
for speaking and all

 

[john_aero]

just been readin on another irish forum, the same arguments are going up, but 1 local lad is after informing us the Declans mother had requested that no charges be brought against her. that is some forgivness from his mother and i hope is the reason she got off free. i hope thats why, but i dont think it would have changed the verdict if she did nto request it.

RIP

 

[GerryC]

I started this thread – reading the press piece really disturbed me for all sorts of reasons.
10 years ago I was hit by an out of control car & very seriously injured. I could have died that day but the outcome of any event is not what is ultimately judged.
The lady driving the car visited me in the hospital - she broke ribs in the accident. It was clear that she did not know why she lost control of the car.
Many months later the Gardai contacted me asking that I attend court as a potential witness. In court I sat beside the lady; she was charged with dangerous driving - if I recollect correctly. She asked what I hoped to see happen that day. My view was that it was over & pinning dangerous to her was not really addressing anything & I told her that.

She had not pulled out of driveway - if asked to guess, she got a wheel in the muddy verge entering a curve and then braked, losing control but I saw nothing until she careered into my path.
Anyhow her legal representative addresses the judge - young lady, impeccable record & stuff like that which was fair enough – I was not called upon (also fair enough).
There were two differences in that there was no jury & my bike's capacity (800cc) or its speed or any accident record that I might have had were not ventilated in the court.
The lady had dangerous knocked down to careless with a small fine - I was OK with that.

Declan's mother is reported to be OK with the lady being acquitted (or more correctly not charged) I understand that & applaud her humanity.

Why the case was heard before a jury I don't know but the lady's legal representative technically did a good job for her (leaving moral issues aside but we are talking about the law which has nothing to do with morals). Sadly he strongly inferred Declan was speeding (he may have been but that does not remove the other party's duty of care & if Declan was at fault in an incident, his speed would be estimated by accident investigators with some degree of authority). The size of Declan's bike & his accident record was also added to the prejudicial melting pot & the jury acquitted. There is little more to say except for the saddest thing of all, Declan is dead - may he rest in peace.

For that fact alone reading the newspaper piece makes me very uncomfortable. In addition I can't help but think that if I died the day of my accident, that inferences as to my machine size, my conduct or past record would be drawn (in my absence) as in Declan's case. I would not rest in peace as I hope Declan does.

 

[Ogmios]

Really?!

....
As for the Irish examiners believe me they are all as thick as pig shit
I have no fear in writing this as I know them there fools can not read
or will ever ask anybody to translate these funny letters in front
of them here.

going to need a lot more methinks.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Oh Dear Joe I'd mind yer ballicks next time Steve sees ya cos ye might be gettin a boot in them LOL

 

[richie]

The article, as is often the case with the media was a half hearted attempt at journalism, we cannot draw any conclusions as there simply is not enough information. I do pull out of junctions when I see other cars coming, it seems that her problem was to have misinterpreted the distance between the light and her.

That was her problem and hopefully rather than not be sure other drivers would aim to be certain...

In all the advance training we re taught to always have enough room to stop and an escape route... did he have one? I am not having a go and do not wish to have a bad accident either, there just is not enough information.

RIP to the rider of course

 

[the celt]

Oh Dear Joe I'd mind yer ballicks next time Steve sees ya cos ye might be gettin a boot in them LOL

What you mean to say that Steve passed his driving test
dressed as a lady....