The inside of my FD
- Thread starter patzx12
- Start date
patzx12
Registered user
The rest is fairly easy. I put the differential gear in the freezer for an hour and heated the new big ball bearing and it tapped on real easy. fitted 2 new seals and assembled.
I did not change any shims and the backlash was OK, in fact when I think about it the bike seemed to have a lot of backlash before I took it off the road (due to the pinion moving around).
I clamped down the FD onto my fixture and tightened the castle nut to 180nm.
Loctited the pinion nut and tightened it to 200nm.
Threw it back on the bike and filled it with .22L of trans oil.
Th axle feels perfecly smooth and quiet when spun.
Job done.
Picture of the author. My beloved 04 GS will get a bit of a rest while I use the GSA (it's a tall bugger back on my tippy toes at the lights, even with the low seat option).
In reply to an earlier question, This bike does not have any outstanding recalls exept for the crash bars which I did not take up. BMW may have replaced the FD with goodwill but I could not be bothered taking it to Dublin and all the messing about fot the sake of €200 and a bit of time.
I did not change any shims and the backlash was OK, in fact when I think about it the bike seemed to have a lot of backlash before I took it off the road (due to the pinion moving around).
I clamped down the FD onto my fixture and tightened the castle nut to 180nm.
Loctited the pinion nut and tightened it to 200nm.
Threw it back on the bike and filled it with .22L of trans oil.
Th axle feels perfecly smooth and quiet when spun.
Job done.
Picture of the author. My beloved 04 GS will get a bit of a rest while I use the GSA (it's a tall bugger back on my tippy toes at the lights, even with the low seat option).
In reply to an earlier question, This bike does not have any outstanding recalls exept for the crash bars which I did not take up. BMW may have replaced the FD with goodwill but I could not be bothered taking it to Dublin and all the messing about fot the sake of €200 and a bit of time.
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You're a lucky man Pat. Access to a decent Engineering facility and two excellent bikes. I'm very jealous.
patzx12
Registered user
I now have the knowlage. I would consider doing some rebuilds but how could you warrantee a rebuild even new ones break.
It's important that everyone checks their FD now and again.
Remember my FD had only the slightest symptoms of failure if I kept riding it would have chewed itself up.
I reall think the only thing that could fail is the small needle bearing, the other 2 bearings are real heavy duty jobs.
I still mainain, do not power wash the rear axle there is a lot going on there and why ask for trouble.
patzx12
Registered user
Well 4 actually + my wife's Kawa, my ownly luxury. It keeps me going maintaining them though.
patzx12
Registered user
I changed the oil on my well thrashed 05 GS1200 today, it was nice clean oil a golden brown and to my knowlage it has never been changed before. bike would have around 25k miles done.
A big contrast to the oil out of my GSA when I changed it some time before the rebuild.
The oil out of this bike was grey and very smelly like a stink bomb, on hind sight it must have been contaminated by the fine residue of the failed bearing.
I would say the condition of the oil would be a good indicator of the FD condition.
A big contrast to the oil out of my GSA when I changed it some time before the rebuild.
The oil out of this bike was grey and very smelly like a stink bomb, on hind sight it must have been contaminated by the fine residue of the failed bearing.
I would say the condition of the oil would be a good indicator of the FD condition.
Good info Pat with good pics, hoping I'll never need it, but I had the impression that the 1200 had sealed for life oil system .. not sure where I read that and how they could justify saying that with what you have found.
Pat, when I did an oil change on my second FD (at around 12,000 miles of use), it was black and stunk of Sulphur. I was told the smell is caused by the anti-wear additives in the oil. I suspect the blackness was due to microscopic pulverised rubber particles from the lip seals. Shortly after the oil change it started leaking so another (third) FD was fitted by dealer as goodwill as they had no tooling to strip and replace the leaking input shaft seal.
Oddly in Australia in the heat I had slight weeping from the rear axle outer seal, I think the airspace in the FD is pretty small and due to having no breather is easily pressurised resulting in leaks/weeps. I wiped it clean after removing the plastic cover ring and it hasn't leaked since.
Oddly in Australia in the heat I had slight weeping from the rear axle outer seal, I think the airspace in the FD is pretty small and due to having no breather is easily pressurised resulting in leaks/weeps. I wiped it clean after removing the plastic cover ring and it hasn't leaked since.
gspaddy
Guest
Most of the drive box failures are due to 'axial play' - ie you can feel the wheel 'knocking' when you pull and push the wheel between the 12 and 6 o'clock positions.
The inner race of THIS affected bearing IS the crown wheel, right?
It's THIS that stops the BMW workshops rebuilding the final drive box, as the price of the crownwheel is £500 ish..... combine this with the cost of the labour involved, the seals, and other bearings / shims involved in the rebuild, and it's not cost effective!
Nothing to do with the fact that the BMW technicians being 'glorified fitters'!
Even if the price of the crown wheel was made more affordable, you then have the factory to deal with..... every time the tools are ordered to pull the drive boxes apart, the report comes back "back ordered to factory".
An appalling reflection on BMW themselves, as the bikes have been around for 5 years!!!
If BMW are trying to get into new markets, eg superbikes, they better start making their bikes more affordable to repair when things go wrong! eg ignition switch antenna, ignition switch 'itself' now!, and ABS modulators that come back with 'internal fault' - in other words "replace me" at 4 years and not a lot of miles old!!! - not to mention fuel pump sender units.....
The inner race of THIS affected bearing IS the crown wheel, right?
It's THIS that stops the BMW workshops rebuilding the final drive box, as the price of the crownwheel is £500 ish..... combine this with the cost of the labour involved, the seals, and other bearings / shims involved in the rebuild, and it's not cost effective!
Nothing to do with the fact that the BMW technicians being 'glorified fitters'!
Even if the price of the crown wheel was made more affordable, you then have the factory to deal with..... every time the tools are ordered to pull the drive boxes apart, the report comes back "back ordered to factory".
An appalling reflection on BMW themselves, as the bikes have been around for 5 years!!!
If BMW are trying to get into new markets, eg superbikes, they better start making their bikes more affordable to repair when things go wrong! eg ignition switch antenna, ignition switch 'itself' now!, and ABS modulators that come back with 'internal fault' - in other words "replace me" at 4 years and not a lot of miles old!!! - not to mention fuel pump sender units.....
patzx12
Registered user
I am not sure about the crown wheel, there should be nothing to wear on it.
The CW is supported by a massive roller bearing on one side and a hefty needle roller bearing on the other. The only thing i could see damaging the bearings is lack of good oil or bits of broken pinion needle bearing chewing them up.
The big roller bearing is sealed so it does not rely on FD oilfor lubrication.
BMW could have saved a lot of hassle by using a conventional twin sided swing arm.
Whatever way you look at it a lot of GS owners will have problems with the FD and the associated hassle and expense.
If you see a compatible FD on ebay at the right price buy it as a spare, if you never use it all well and good you will not loose money.
They were improved in late 2006
The CW is supported by a massive roller bearing on one side and a hefty needle roller bearing on the other. The only thing i could see damaging the bearings is lack of good oil or bits of broken pinion needle bearing chewing them up.
The big roller bearing is sealed so it does not rely on FD oilfor lubrication.
BMW could have saved a lot of hassle by using a conventional twin sided swing arm.
Whatever way you look at it a lot of GS owners will have problems with the FD and the associated hassle and expense.
If you see a compatible FD on ebay at the right price buy it as a spare, if you never use it all well and good you will not loose money.
They were improved in late 2006
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piedevant
Guest
HP2 FD grief at 4,000 miles!
Fascinating thread, which my friend John Mitchenson has just alerted me to.
John is in the process of rebuilding my HP2 FD after it failed its first MoT at only 4,000 miles! (It's an ex-Off Road School machine, say no more!).
John (based in Northants) has also now made all the special tools required to get a GS FD apart. Like PatZX12 he also had a mighty struggle; he said he and his son were both hanging off a scaffy pole while his one ton milling machine was rocking to and fro before the FD finally cracked apart!
I was fortunate to find a 2nd hand GS12 FD for £300 including disc to get myself out of trouble for the recent Rally of Discovery in Northumbria.
The only minor irritation is that the speedo no longer works, despite making the lead fit into the only slightly incompatible join on the HP2 harness.....
However, I am dismayed to read that there was an upgrade to the FD design in 2006 since my replacement FD unit was an early one! What did the upgrade consist of Pat?
I agree that there must be a very large pile of knackered GS and HP2 FDs gathering dust in Deutschland......unless BMW actually rebuild them themselves?! And there must be a market for a rebuild service now that all those 04 and 05 GSs are long out of warranty. My friend Nigel's HP2 FD was replaced under warranty at 1200 miles, but apparently the replacement is now wobbling too......(Are the 1200 RT and other roadgoing 1200 Boxer FDs any different I ask myself? I suspect not......)
PNB in SW London
Fascinating thread, which my friend John Mitchenson has just alerted me to.
John is in the process of rebuilding my HP2 FD after it failed its first MoT at only 4,000 miles! (It's an ex-Off Road School machine, say no more!).
John (based in Northants) has also now made all the special tools required to get a GS FD apart. Like PatZX12 he also had a mighty struggle; he said he and his son were both hanging off a scaffy pole while his one ton milling machine was rocking to and fro before the FD finally cracked apart!
I was fortunate to find a 2nd hand GS12 FD for £300 including disc to get myself out of trouble for the recent Rally of Discovery in Northumbria.
The only minor irritation is that the speedo no longer works, despite making the lead fit into the only slightly incompatible join on the HP2 harness.....
However, I am dismayed to read that there was an upgrade to the FD design in 2006 since my replacement FD unit was an early one! What did the upgrade consist of Pat?
I agree that there must be a very large pile of knackered GS and HP2 FDs gathering dust in Deutschland......unless BMW actually rebuild them themselves?! And there must be a market for a rebuild service now that all those 04 and 05 GSs are long out of warranty. My friend Nigel's HP2 FD was replaced under warranty at 1200 miles, but apparently the replacement is now wobbling too......(Are the 1200 RT and other roadgoing 1200 Boxer FDs any different I ask myself? I suspect not......)
PNB in SW London
FD for HP2e
Keep up the investigation Piedevant I am worried about mine
pg
Keep up the investigation Piedevant I am worried about mine
pg
Julio de Torremolinos
Registered user
I do own an 04 with 65k kms on the clock and no problem by now. Just back form Moroccan tracks and all fine, despite some hard crossings in dry river beds.
One question that I do not understand. Why BMW fits those bearings with covered sides in a place full of lubircant. Inside the gear box we found the same stuff. Is that a good thing? Could we replace them by "open" bearings?
Thansk for advice, if anybody knows.
One question that I do not understand. Why BMW fits those bearings with covered sides in a place full of lubircant. Inside the gear box we found the same stuff. Is that a good thing? Could we replace them by "open" bearings?Thansk for advice, if anybody knows.
michnus
Guest
I have a funny high pitch vibration on the pegs when riding at 80km/h and then tapping off to coast. Also at higher speeds but feel it more at that speed.
When I changed the FD oil I notice play as shown in the picture, is this what you refer to? I don't know how to measure the play but there is a small amount of play.
patzx12
Registered user
Hi Torremolinos, The big sealed bearing is massive, I have similar bearings in big industrial machinery running 24/7 I just cannot see a light application like a motorcycle wearing one of them puppies out.
Hi Michnus) If you have wiggle in the pinion then I am afraid that the needle bearing must be worn or the shims for the thrust bearing is wrong.
What did the oil look and smell like?
If you guys google { R1200GS FINAL DRIVE } it will bring up the workshop manual.
Hi Michnus) If you have wiggle in the pinion then I am afraid that the needle bearing must be worn or the shims for the thrust bearing is wrong.
What did the oil look and smell like?
If you guys google { R1200GS FINAL DRIVE } it will bring up the workshop manual.
Julio de Torremolinos
Registered user
well Patz, I am not worried about the size and the quality. I trust that it has been calculated to resist (mine is perfectly well after all those kms), but I was just wondering why sealed, when the live in a bath of oil?? I must say that I am more than happy with mu GS
michnus
Guest
Patzx the thing is like that for the last 30000km, I thought it was okay like that. The oil looked okay and had the same smell as my other 1200GS which is a year younger, stink and is black. That is why I did not suspect it was a problem..
Basterd, and I do not have the tools you have.
flash of the gap
Registered user
michnus
Guest
Got the bevel gear back into the bearing housing but there's no way to check if it's all the in, there's also no reference to it on the BMW cd repair manual.
Any advice?
Any advice?
