Engine modes?
To ESA or to not ESA? Buying Advice needed
- Thread starter Andrew997
- Start date
Engine modes?
NZRalphy
Registered user
The oem shocks will die early. Just plan to have in your budget 2x Wilbers, or 2x Touratech (more robust), 2x Tractive (they make the Touratech units)
sanensafe
Registered user
It would appear the consensus of opinion is the non ESA. I however have ESA and having had it wouldn't return to a bike without it. For me the advantage of being able to soften the settings to comfort for when it's raining and you want that bit of a softer ride to let the tyres find the grip, put it in standard for dryer roads and for a bit of lunacy put it in sport and get a wiggle on is the advantage of ESA. The preload settings i never use, for me ESA is about having three bikes in one to suit weather, roads and mood.
comberjohn
Registered user
Andrew, don't worry about all the talk about your GS will collapse into a bouncy heap after 10k miles.
If you're buying a TC, with or without ESA, it'll be fine. It's not a deal breaker.
Mine has 40k miles on now, and, you know what, it's still on the standard ESA units!
I'm sure that if I spent £1500 on a pair of units it would be a better handler but for me, it's adequate.
If I notice a deterioration in handling, I'll spend a few hundred getting them rebuilt.
Don't feel you have to spend a fortune on exhausts, shocks, etc. It's not compulsory!
BTW, the TC is the model that had most of the bugs ironed out. There's no worries about the ESA or ABS giving you a big bill.
I've never felt the ABS kicking in, but I like the idea of it being there for that moment when you really need it.
Just buy one and enjoy it. You'll know what you want as you own it. It's the ultimate accessory bike, everything is available (for a price).
If you're buying a TC, with or without ESA, it'll be fine. It's not a deal breaker.
Mine has 40k miles on now, and, you know what, it's still on the standard ESA units!
I'm sure that if I spent £1500 on a pair of units it would be a better handler but for me, it's adequate.
If I notice a deterioration in handling, I'll spend a few hundred getting them rebuilt.
Don't feel you have to spend a fortune on exhausts, shocks, etc. It's not compulsory!
BTW, the TC is the model that had most of the bugs ironed out. There's no worries about the ESA or ABS giving you a big bill.
I've never felt the ABS kicking in, but I like the idea of it being there for that moment when you really need it.
Just buy one and enjoy it. You'll know what you want as you own it. It's the ultimate accessory bike, everything is available (for a price).
In 2011 when I ordered my R1200 GSA TC I specified all the options except no ESA and no ABS. The standard shocks were okay but replaced them at 3 months old with maxton and it transformed the bike.
My view is if this bike is going to be a keeper buy a non ESA , non ABS model specced with the package to include onboard computer, led indicators and rear light (and if a GSA) the foglights .
Really wanted my LC to have non ESA but at the time there were no new non ESA bikes available in the country and BMW UK were not planning to bring any in ,really think ESA is a gimmick
My view is if this bike is going to be a keeper buy a non ESA , non ABS model specced with the package to include onboard computer, led indicators and rear light (and if a GSA) the foglights .
Really wanted my LC to have non ESA but at the time there were no new non ESA bikes available in the country and BMW UK were not planning to bring any in ,really think ESA is a gimmick
Thanks again for all your input guys, a lot of different opinions, but they have all helped me in making my decision. I think i will just wait for the right bike to come along and I'm not going to worry one way or the other if it has esa or abs. It seems it is a 'nice to have' item not a 'must have' item. I am going to look at a bike that has no abs or esa sometime soon so I will let you know how I get on. My 2004 Hornet has what the experts call 'crap' suspension with no adjustment other than preload (which i have never adjusted) and it has taken me on a trip around the Scottish highlands just fine lol.
One interesting point I didn't know until I seen Neil W 's post is that they all don't have an onboard computer?? I thought would be standard and I think I would definitely like that.
Comberjohn, thanks to you I know my first mod and it will be some af-xied controllers! I have read you thread on the job, thanks, going to America in may so will pick some up, if I have a bike by then that is!
One interesting point I didn't know until I seen Neil W 's post is that they all don't have an onboard computer?? I thought would be standard and I think I would definitely like that.
Comberjohn, thanks to you I know my first mod and it will be some af-xied controllers! I have read you thread on the job, thanks, going to America in may so will pick some up, if I have a bike by then that is!
What i would say about non ESA is that on standard BMW shocks I had to have one setting for solo, change the preload on front and rear for two up and again for two up with luggage.
When the maxton shocks were fitted in 4 years I never touched the front settings and the rear needed a couple of turns on the hydraulic preload adjuster for two up (20 seconds) and that was it, for short two up hops with no luggage it could be left on the solo settings
You cannot beat good quality aftermarket shocks, they prove that a bike can handle in a sporty manner without having stiff and uncompliant suspension
When the maxton shocks were fitted in 4 years I never touched the front settings and the rear needed a couple of turns on the hydraulic preload adjuster for two up (20 seconds) and that was it, for short two up hops with no luggage it could be left on the solo settings
You cannot beat good quality aftermarket shocks, they prove that a bike can handle in a sporty manner without having stiff and uncompliant suspension
The computer isn't all that great. It'll give you an inaccurate ambient temperature reading until the sensor fails. It'll give you a pointless instant fuel consumption figure and an inaccurate average consumption figure (when you compare it to what you calculate after filling up). You get to know the range on a tankful without a computer (like you do on any other bike) and in any case the miles to empty countdown once the fuel light comes on is standard, I think.
I wouldn't let the presence/absence of a computer affect your buying decision.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Most of my computer modes (fuel gauge/strip failed) don't work OEM fuel strip failed. I don't miss them.
Try to get a bike with float type fuel gauge the older fuel strip is horrendously unreliable.
Sent somehow.
Try to get a bike with float type fuel gauge the older fuel strip is horrendously unreliable.
Sent somehow.
Dwaind
Registered user
Benhams of Wolverhampton have a fully loaded Tripple Black with just over 3000 miles on it for just over £10k, I am ashamed to say it's my old bike.
It's perfect, anyone who buys it is getting a peach.
I just wanted a LC.
It's perfect, anyone who buys it is getting a peach.
I just wanted a LC.
steveC
Registered user
Yes Road, rain, dynamic. Could detect the difference no problem.
The suspension settings left me wondering were they working. I thought it was just me, apparently I am not alone in being insensitive.
comberjohn
Registered user
Good call on the AF-XiED units. Especially, if you can get them while in the States. You'll save a fortune.
I did consider a Hilltop remap, but, like yourself, travelling to the mainland and all that it entails, made it uneconomical. No regrets with my choice and imagine that I would get a good percentage of my money back if I changed to a different bike. No chance at the moment, enjoying it too much.
Just an observation.
When other members are making observations about computers, fuel strips, final drives, etc.
Bear in mind, that if going for a TC, many of these issues that are known on the SC, don't apply.
The TC doesn't have a fuel strip and I've ran my fuel computer down to 4 miles remaining. Which I think is pretty accurate.
When looking at a used TC, don't get too obsessed about whether it has ESA or not.
Look at it from an overall point of view. Dealers call a bike with no ABS or ESA, a 'poverty spec' bike. Not my my words.
It probably won't have the chrome exhaust or the (very accurate) fuel computer or heated grips or LED indicators or PANNIERS and TOP BOX either.
Most GS's will have these toys included from new and there won't be a massive difference in the second hand price from an (ahem) poverty spec bike.
McCallen's in Lisburn had a GS for sale last year and it looked like a goodish price. But when looked at, it was a very basic bike. Be careful and know what you're looking at.
Don't buy without panniers and, preferably, a top box. You'll need a grand even for a second hand set.
It's not difficult to go across the water to buy a bike to get more choice. I bought a used K1600GT in a Manchester dealer a couple of years ago. Flew in that morning, he had a taxi waiting, bought the bike and was in Holyhead for the boat to Dublin that afternoon.
Home about eight that night.
There's one thing there's no shortage of and that's GS's.
I did consider a Hilltop remap, but, like yourself, travelling to the mainland and all that it entails, made it uneconomical. No regrets with my choice and imagine that I would get a good percentage of my money back if I changed to a different bike. No chance at the moment, enjoying it too much.
Just an observation.
When other members are making observations about computers, fuel strips, final drives, etc.
Bear in mind, that if going for a TC, many of these issues that are known on the SC, don't apply.
The TC doesn't have a fuel strip and I've ran my fuel computer down to 4 miles remaining. Which I think is pretty accurate.
When looking at a used TC, don't get too obsessed about whether it has ESA or not.
Look at it from an overall point of view. Dealers call a bike with no ABS or ESA, a 'poverty spec' bike. Not my my words.
It probably won't have the chrome exhaust or the (very accurate) fuel computer or heated grips or LED indicators or PANNIERS and TOP BOX either.
Most GS's will have these toys included from new and there won't be a massive difference in the second hand price from an (ahem) poverty spec bike.
McCallen's in Lisburn had a GS for sale last year and it looked like a goodish price. But when looked at, it was a very basic bike. Be careful and know what you're looking at.
Don't buy without panniers and, preferably, a top box. You'll need a grand even for a second hand set.
It's not difficult to go across the water to buy a bike to get more choice. I bought a used K1600GT in a Manchester dealer a couple of years ago. Flew in that morning, he had a taxi waiting, bought the bike and was in Holyhead for the boat to Dublin that afternoon.
Home about eight that night.
There's one thing there's no shortage of and that's GS's.
Bendy toy
Registered user
I believe the very early TCs had the fuel strip but there really can't be many of them about.
My heated grips (admittedly its a SC) have always been warm or tepid. They don't get hot enough for properly cold weather so TBH they'd be no loss if the bike had come with plain grips and I'd had to fit some Oxfords.
Good call on the luggage, but you can get better kit in the aftermarket. You pays yer money etc.
The OEM chrome exhaust is a heavy lump of tin and its really not quiet with the catalyst removed.
ESA is nice but not a deal breaker. Get a poverty spec bike on knock down price and spend the money on aftermarket shocks.
A reliable fuel level gauge IS important. Those who say "just set the trip" must make limited use of their bikes. If the rising is predictable (e.g. motorways or town or country) you can estimate the fuel usage. If you mix and match then you can still run out. Either that or fill the tank with 2 gallons remaining which makes the bike GSA tank more than a bit pointless.
None of this should matter on the TC but it will if you can only afford a SC.
My heated grips (admittedly its a SC) have always been warm or tepid. They don't get hot enough for properly cold weather so TBH they'd be no loss if the bike had come with plain grips and I'd had to fit some Oxfords.
Good call on the luggage, but you can get better kit in the aftermarket. You pays yer money etc.
The OEM chrome exhaust is a heavy lump of tin and its really not quiet with the catalyst removed.
ESA is nice but not a deal breaker. Get a poverty spec bike on knock down price and spend the money on aftermarket shocks.
A reliable fuel level gauge IS important. Those who say "just set the trip" must make limited use of their bikes. If the rising is predictable (e.g. motorways or town or country) you can estimate the fuel usage. If you mix and match then you can still run out. Either that or fill the tank with 2 gallons remaining which makes the bike GSA tank more than a bit pointless.
None of this should matter on the TC but it will if you can only afford a SC.
comberjohn
Registered user
As Bendy says, you'd be unlucky to get a TC with a fuel strip. Mine's a 2010, so one of the first and is ok.
My heated groups are too warm for mine on the high setting. In the winter I use a pair of handlebar muffs and the low setting.
Using Oxford grips isn't the end of the world, but I like the fact that the standard are integrated rather than extra cables and an external controller. Of course, it could just be that some standard heated groups get warmer than others.
The chrome headers are good. Mine just get a wash with the bike and still look good. Check out the number of threads about how to keep your unchromed headers clean.
I expected the sports headers to considerably lighter that the standard. The difference in weight is negligible unless going to something like titanium and even then, hardly that much. Have you seen the size of the advantage tosser?
Removing the cat is not compulsory.
The standard TC system is the most efficient in terms of power and not damaging your hearing. Removing the flappy valve is all you need to do to give it a bit more 'presence'.
If you get a TC and want to try a non cat system, I've one in my shed you're welcome to try it out.
A remap or the AF XiED units is the best place to start.
Don't write of the idea of a good, well maintained SC with low miles if at the right price.
My heated groups are too warm for mine on the high setting. In the winter I use a pair of handlebar muffs and the low setting.
Using Oxford grips isn't the end of the world, but I like the fact that the standard are integrated rather than extra cables and an external controller. Of course, it could just be that some standard heated groups get warmer than others.
The chrome headers are good. Mine just get a wash with the bike and still look good. Check out the number of threads about how to keep your unchromed headers clean.
I expected the sports headers to considerably lighter that the standard. The difference in weight is negligible unless going to something like titanium and even then, hardly that much. Have you seen the size of the advantage tosser?
Removing the cat is not compulsory.
The standard TC system is the most efficient in terms of power and not damaging your hearing. Removing the flappy valve is all you need to do to give it a bit more 'presence'.
If you get a TC and want to try a non cat system, I've one in my shed you're welcome to try it out.
A remap or the AF XiED units is the best place to start.
Don't write of the idea of a good, well maintained SC with low miles if at the right price.
Thanks again guys for taking the time to reply, it really is appreciated! comberjohn you say there is no shortage of gs's , but i have made serious enquiries about 3 this week and have missed them all, i guess patience will be the key!
I am totally with you about the heated grips, i like how they are integrated, this would nearly be more important than esa or abs.. by the time you get the sat nav hooked up and I have a sena 10u helmet system with the separate controller and then add in a oxford grips controller you start to look a bit like inspector gadget, lol.
I think I have my heart set on a tc, I have a good budget for a tc and could also go for an early LC but I hear to many horror stories about the early ones in terms of corrosion and build quality etc.
If i get my hands on one i may just take you up on the offer of trying the exhaust comberjohn
I am totally with you about the heated grips, i like how they are integrated, this would nearly be more important than esa or abs.. by the time you get the sat nav hooked up and I have a sena 10u helmet system with the separate controller and then add in a oxford grips controller you start to look a bit like inspector gadget, lol.
I think I have my heart set on a tc, I have a good budget for a tc and could also go for an early LC but I hear to many horror stories about the early ones in terms of corrosion and build quality etc.
If i get my hands on one i may just take you up on the offer of trying the exhaust comberjohn
TC vs LC is not a shoe in for the LC, I'm not alone on here in preferring the TC, just as you find Folkestad who wouldn't swap their 1150s. I found the LC a bit lacking in character and was happy to get back on the TC.
Delboy777
Registered user
Christ........now youve done it
the shitehouse brigade will be up in arms at you saying that 
however I agree with you 
Christ........now youve done it
My vote is with the TC too!
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