Total and Complete Brake Failure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fanum]

People who say things like

truth is it wouldn't happen on a Honda!

have evidently not read the ST1100 forum where they all moan about their calipers seizing up every week in the winter.....or the ST1300 forum where they moan about their bikes weaving all over the road at motorway speeds when loaded up.....or the Goldwing forum when.....blah blah blah.....

Read any bike-specific forum and you'l pick up bike specific weaknesses.

Dennis, I'm really glad you came out of your incident unhurt....It would have been a shame to lose you now as we've got many years of mutual piss taking and adventures to come .....

I'd agree with the previous posters...if your servos fail after being used to such great brakes, it feels like there's nothing....in your case, it was rainy....so I can fully appreciate how it must have felt like there was nothing at all.


I agree with Paul W......I've turned off my igntion on the move at a fair pace to test the 'residual braking' without my abs and more importantly the servos, and it's surprising after having been spoilt by so long using the combination of both.......in your case, sudden failure + rain = major pants filling incident

I know I have enough residual braking in my '04 adv to do an entire on and off road ride with.....mine failed at Land's End last year, and I lead and finished the fords ride without incident, though my right boot had to stomp a lot harder than normal to have the desired effect

And yes Vern, my lights were flashing

Compare the amount of people who say that their ABS/Servos have saved them from a nasty accident in the past (I'm one of them) against how many people have had nasty acident because of the failure of the systems, and I still believe the balance is in the favour of the system.

(Though I do concede that if I could, I'd have ABS with no servos right now......but I can't so stuff it, I'll stick with what I've got )

 

[jonothan]

So, guys, I've read this thread with interest.

And I cannot help thinking that if this problem was apparent in a BMW car then I'm pretty damned certain that BMW would have recalled all potentially affected vehicles before someone got hurt or BBC's Watchdog shamed them into action.

Would they not?

Now, being on two wheels is a bit more risky, n'est-ce pas? Ergo, my view is that it needs sorting. Warning lights giving ample warning or not.

J

 

[cookie]

So, guys, I've read this thread with interest.

And I cannot help thinking that if this problem was apparent in a BMW car then I'm pretty damned certain that BMW would have recalled all potentially affected vehicles before someone got hurt or BBC's Watchdog shamed them into action.

Would they not?

Now, being on two wheels is a bit more risky, n'est-ce pas? Ergo, my view is that it needs sorting. Warning lights giving ample warning or not.

J

spot on.

 

[jonnie comet]

Something must be done - even if the servo/abs has to be removed from all bikes completely with compensation.

Not bothered 'bout compo'. If they simply made a good job of removing the servo crap (new r/h switchgear etc) I would be happy

... ...

 

[simonm]

Use The Info

I'm with Vern on this....

I had a ABS pump fail on my 1150 GS.
I had flashing feckin lights all over the place.
A look in the manual revealed the combination of warning lights indicated:
"At least one brake circuit on Residual Brake Function"
This was an accurate diagnosis. Fortunately it was only the rear and the ABS pump was replaced under warranty. I actually chose to ride the bike until the part could be delivered from Germany.
The point is the warning lights do convey specific info including the "its a defective rear tail light bulb" As a result I copied the relevent page out of the manual and carry a laminated copy in my wallet.

Below is the info for 1150 GS - please check for other models.

! ABS Error

OFF ON RBF Only In Both Circuits
OFF 1 Hz No ABS – Pull AwayTest Not Completed
OFF 4 Hz RBF Only In Both Circuits –
Self Diagnosis Not Completed
ON OFF Rear\Brake Light Defective
ON 1 Hz At Least One Brake Circuit No ABS
ON 4 Hz At Least One Brake Circuit On RBF
1 Hz 1 Hz Fluid Level In ABS Too Low – Check RBF

BMW go to the trouble to program the warning system to give a variety of information - it makes sense to use it.

The system fecked the formatting on the above

 

[cookie]

I'm with Vern on this....

I had a ABS pump fail on my 1150 GS.
I had flashing feckin lights all over the place.
A look in the manual revealed the combination of warning lights indicated:
"At least one brake circuit on Residual Brake Function"
This was an accurate diagnosis. Fortunately it was only the rear and the ABS pump was replaced under warranty. I actually chose to ride the bike until the part could be delivered from Germany.
The point is the warning lights do convey specific info including the "its a defective rear tail light bulb" As a result I copied the relevent page out of the manual and carry a laminated copy in my wallet.

Below is the info for 1150 GS - please check for other models.

! ABS Error

OFF ON RBF Only In Both Circuits
OFF 1 Hz No ABS – Pull AwayTest Not Completed
OFF 4 Hz RBF Only In Both Circuits –
Self Diagnosis Not Completed
ON OFF Rear\Brake Light Defective
ON 1 Hz At Least One Brake Circuit No ABS
ON 4 Hz At Least One Brake Circuit On RBF
1 Hz 1 Hz Fluid Level In ABS Too Low – Check RBF

BMW go to the trouble to program the warning system to give a variety of information - it makes sense to use it.

The system fecked the formatting on the above

can't help thinking it would be much better if they just made it work reliably

or ditch it.

 

[simonm]

Agreed cookie
But I do want ABS so I live with servo
Actually I had no choice - non ABS wasn't an option on the 1150 GSA-SE.
But my post was in support of Verns comment about ignoring warning lights especially the " last time the lights flashed it was only a rear bulb so I'll just carry on" brigade.

 

[(RIP) Dennis]

But my post was in support of Verns comment about ignoring warning lights especially the " last time the lights flashed it was only a rear bulb so I'll just carry on" brigade.

Simon, if you read my post properly,I did not just carry on regardless. I check several time to make sure that the brakes were still working. I then stopped, switched off the engine. Restarted, pulled away and checked the brakes again. They were still working perfectly. It was at least 10 miles further on, having used the brakes several more time in that period that they then failed completely.

 

[Vern]

Don't worry Den,I'm getting it(the beer fairy takes priority over my computer)

Fair play,so there's the odd one who has had a failure with absolutly no warning whatsoever.I was wrong,bended knee and I'll get me coat and all that.But where are the rest of them then?I thought this was a huge problem affecting all the 1150/1200,and the numbers just don't back it up.The ammount of these bikes that have been sold,I can't recall of hearing of one accident resulting from brake failure(apart from one,who called his dealer,said his warning lights were flashing.Dealer offered to pick up the bike and have a look at it,man said he would bring it to workshop and hit a wall on the way because he had no brakes.And that wasn't UK)

I said when they came out that I would never have a bike that relied on a fuse to stop you,and if I had bought one,and it did fail,it would be through the dealers window asap.

It can't be that much of a big deal,after all,you all get back on the bikes and ride them again don't you.

I still say that 99.9% of these brake failures,are due to people not understanding or ignoring the warning lights.

Cat firmly placed amongst the pigeons

 

[(RIP) Dennis]

Equally, Vern surely one avoidable death caused by a malfunctioning part, is too many. As was stated earlier, if it was on one of their cars, ther would have been a complete safety recall by now. In fact my BMW Mini Cooper had a safety recall for a very small and insignificant part to be changed on the handbrake, hardly life threatening.

 

[cookie]

I still say that 99.9% of these brake failures,are due to people not understanding or ignoring the warning lights.

maybe, but i've never seen a warning light come on in a car, it just works IME

 

[Vern]

Jeez,I don't want to see anyone die(well,apart from a couple of people I know)But if this is such a life threatening thing,affecting tens of thousands of motorcycles,why hasn't anyone done anything serious about it.

A bloke who lives not far from here,had the rear subframe on his hayabusa collapse while he was riding it,and it made quite a mess of him as well.That was all over the press the next week,he even got it on to Watchdog,on prime time tv.That dropped Suzuki right in the mire,no mistake.So why haven't these dodgey Mbw brakes had any publicity at all.

Complete and utter brake failure,on one of the worlds best selling motorcycles,the ones that Charley and Ewan rode around the world,the ones the big fat cooks(or whatever they're called)ride every week,the ones that followed the Olympic flame around the globe.The press would have an absolute field day on it.

So why hasn't anyone done it then

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Vern..............Perhaps all the owners think it's ok, you and me don't - so we've exercised our choice

If you like to ride BMW Motorcycles..............

You have 2 choices

Ride a Servo ABS BMW

or

Ride a non ABS/ABS (non servo) BMW

As they say..................the choice is yours

Don't moan if you ride a Servo ABS BMW, it's your choice......so stick with it or sell it

Life is all about choices..................which ones you take..... are ultimately up to you

 

[Spout]

Only thing is Johnny, are new owners aware of the issues?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Only thing is Johnny, are new owners aware of the issues?

Who knows, Paul

Suggest they do a bit of research on here and anywhere else for info

 

[MikeP]

maybe, but i've never seen a warning light come on in a car, it just works IME

I wish the two servo failures I've experienced in cars were preceded by a warning light or any kind of warning.

Two feet on the brake pedal to get any effect was a bit of an eye-opener.

Lets face it, anything mechanical/electrical can and does fail.

When it it happens on a bike it's always going to have potentially worse consequences than in a car etc.

Two servo failures in cars haven't stopped me buying cars with servo-assist, nor does it make me worry about someone-elses servo failure happening right behind me at the wrong (for me) moment.

Have these failures altered my riding at all?

Yes. Since hearing of these incidents I now always touch the brakes well before I rely on them wherever I can (not possible in an emergency I agree) and I'm much more conscious of the warning lights when I glance at the speedo/tacho.

Apart from that, like most, until I experience it first-hand myself, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of my bike (I have as much sympathy as humanly possible for those who have experienced servo failure).

 

[(RIP) Dennis]

The press would have an absolute field day on it.

Watch this space

 

[Vern]

Only thing is Johnny, are new owners aware of the issues?

As there has been no publicity about it,unless they look,then I doubt it very much.

If I had bought a bike with servo abs,and it had failed,with no warning,I would never ride it again.It would be returned to the dealer for a refund,and it would stay there until it rotted.

Eliminator seems to be the only one caught out good and proper so far,and he ignored it and tried again.Feck that for a game.

Den chose to ignore his warning lights,and went for an overtake,and then found out that the warning light was right.

If your oil light comes on,do you ignore that as well.

I think Mbw should replace the abs warning light,with a fecking great boxing glove on a spring,that way,you couldn't ignore it.

I'm still not convinced about all these abs failures at all,someone,somewhere would have cause a huge fuss about it by now,and dealers would have their showrooms full of 1200s they couldn't shift because of the problem.Has anyone even warned MCN about the issue at all,because they'd love something good to write about.

 

[Bigtwin]

Watch this space

Unfortunately, most of the press and everyone else have been put off by that ranting loon Nemesis (and his 200 other used names) to be interested anymore.

 

[bugeyes]

I agree I myself have suffered total brake failure on my R1150RT twice now, the first time, turned out to be a Servo, which BMW did a partial goodwill replacement.
But, I had to pay the Labour charge, and then only to find that some 4000 miles later the same thing happens again, this time BMW replaced a Servo, completely free of charge.
Lucky old me. I had the same feeling of no breaks, whatsoever, just as I was pulling up to traffic going downhill. I never want to experience that again.
So much so that I traded my RT in this week and managed to find a R1150GSa without the dreaded ABS/Servo. This means I can continue to enjoy.
My BMW without losing breaking.