2125 miles? It's not even run in. Slight wear on the edge, it's not squared off...loads of life. But it's your cash
Tyre thread
- Thread starter Katie
- Start date
Its on 2mm on the edge. It won't be squared as I commute through the mountains and try to stay off motorway/Autopista. So another 4 weeks or so and I'll change it. Doing around 700km per week now the storms are finally gone.
Remember the tyre is the only contact point to the ground. Personally, purely option, I'll not sacrifice grip to delay a €200 tyre bill.
Riders also become used to grip deterioration. Thats why there are so many false reviews on tyres. Riders compare a new tyre to the old worn one which they've not noticed has dropped off.
Set the TC to -5 in Dynamic Pro and for sure there is a difference now the tyre is worn. Just depends where your personal level is, bike use, country/climate etc.
Remember the tyre is the only contact point to the ground. Personally, purely option, I'll not sacrifice grip to delay a €200 tyre bill.
Riders also become used to grip deterioration. Thats why there are so many false reviews on tyres. Riders compare a new tyre to the old worn one which they've not noticed has dropped off.
Set the TC to -5 in Dynamic Pro and for sure there is a difference now the tyre is worn. Just depends where your personal level is, bike use, country/climate etc.
Just to keep the thread updated with thoughts, opinions, info. Again as with everything in life and Internet world. Purely option and subjective. Nothing is right or wrong. But its always good to share experiences and thoughts etc.
Fitted the new Sportsmart Mk4 rear. Originally i thought the bike came with them. But it's the Mk3 the bike is supplied with.
The tech info and reviews etc from Dunlop state grip is up by 20% etc. As you'd expect. Later model = progression. But there is actually a difference. It is better. I like the Mk3 alot, grip isnt at Supercorsa level obviously but thats not what the RS is about. We need a tyre that doesnt distort with the weight of the bike and can heat up fast and give alot of feel. Alongside working ok in the wet. (I personally dont think any road tyre works on public roads in the wet. Too many variables due to fluids, fuels, etc but its just a case of what is best )
The Mk3 is a great tyre, heats up super fast. Loads of feel and feedback. Decent in wet also. But the Mk4 is just more of it.
It does seem its maybe a bit softer at the sides. Riding the same. Same roads. Same usage. Already it shows small signs of peeling/rippling where the Mk3 didn't.
One thing to note. And again. Splitting hairs and being critical. If starting to push on a bit. You can feel the front is working harder. Like at decent leans, 48-50 deg on the dash at higher speeds 4th gear sweepers. When back to gas and starting to drive you can feel the front feels a little vague. Like the rear has more grip and is pushing it slightly. Again. Being critical here and its nothing really. But I think changing only the rear to the 4 and having a 5000km 3 on the front. When working the tyre a bit harder for sure you can feel there is a difference.
Also with TC on -5 and trying to play with it and use all that midrange the bike has. The 3 would move a bit and be more fun to play with. Really predictable and smooth. No snaps or anything unpredictable like a Michelin. The 4 just bites and hooks up and starts the bike wheelying.
I'm going to MotoGP in Jerez in a few weeks. Both days. So itll be 10 hours and 1000km of Autopista over that weekend. So can asess better after that.
Fitted the new Sportsmart Mk4 rear. Originally i thought the bike came with them. But it's the Mk3 the bike is supplied with.
The tech info and reviews etc from Dunlop state grip is up by 20% etc. As you'd expect. Later model = progression. But there is actually a difference. It is better. I like the Mk3 alot, grip isnt at Supercorsa level obviously but thats not what the RS is about. We need a tyre that doesnt distort with the weight of the bike and can heat up fast and give alot of feel. Alongside working ok in the wet. (I personally dont think any road tyre works on public roads in the wet. Too many variables due to fluids, fuels, etc but its just a case of what is best )
The Mk3 is a great tyre, heats up super fast. Loads of feel and feedback. Decent in wet also. But the Mk4 is just more of it.
It does seem its maybe a bit softer at the sides. Riding the same. Same roads. Same usage. Already it shows small signs of peeling/rippling where the Mk3 didn't.
One thing to note. And again. Splitting hairs and being critical. If starting to push on a bit. You can feel the front is working harder. Like at decent leans, 48-50 deg on the dash at higher speeds 4th gear sweepers. When back to gas and starting to drive you can feel the front feels a little vague. Like the rear has more grip and is pushing it slightly. Again. Being critical here and its nothing really. But I think changing only the rear to the 4 and having a 5000km 3 on the front. When working the tyre a bit harder for sure you can feel there is a difference.
Also with TC on -5 and trying to play with it and use all that midrange the bike has. The 3 would move a bit and be more fun to play with. Really predictable and smooth. No snaps or anything unpredictable like a Michelin. The 4 just bites and hooks up and starts the bike wheelying.
I'm going to MotoGP in Jerez in a few weeks. Both days. So itll be 10 hours and 1000km of Autopista over that weekend. So can asess better after that.
The app shows a good reference data for this. Again. Purely to show data which backs up the feeling. The app logs 48deg left lean, 130kph, but driving the bike and accelerating with 63% throttle at 5500rpm. Its a good data set to show the feel, grip and confidence the tyre has where on a 240+kg bike you can be at reasonable lean at speed but accelerating quite hard with 0 TC intervention or issues. Its a good snap shot of evidence to show real world tyre performance. We cant hide from data. A tyre with less grip or composure would not allow the rider confidence of feel to do this and the TC intervention would be kicking in to assist.
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Larry Langford
Registered user
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Impressive data, although I would caution being too brand loyal in tires, they do change a lot. In 24 the Motorad group of test riders used RS's in a tire test. Out of five or six tires they liked the the michelin road 6 GT, the pirelli angle II GT, Dunlop road smart IV GT. They said the road 6 GT had crystal clear feedback, no surprises.
Personally, I shredded the tire that came with my RS in about 2500 miles, and the shop recommended the road 6 GT. After I put these on the bike was dead solid up front thereafter, and transformed imo. It does seem the the RS, being a tad heavy for a sport bike does need a very strong tire up front. To avoid deformity/cupping under hard braking. And I think this info is prolly transferable to the 1300, being they do weigh about the same. ride safe ......
Great info. Yes i agree with alot of it. Hence i think Dunlops suit it as they have a slightly firmer carcass. I'd like to try the Metzler Roadtec 02. Or new Sportec 01. But any time I rode/raced on Pirelli Metzler they were always fantastic but had a soft carcass that bent and distorted. Which was good as it gave a predictable feeling. But I think on the RS it could be a miss match.
I tested on Michelins in 2014 and 2015 and just couldn't get on with them. I think they were Power One? Lots of small holes as tread pattern. They had a narrow window and weren't progressive. But in 2023 I tried the 5's road tyre on a GSXS1000 and again. It just felt off to me. Like that feeling when the tyre is starting to work and dig in and feedback. Wasn't there. Felt a bit numb then snappy. The issue is probably with me and riding style or what I want a tyre to feel like. As they are very popular.
Yes. Agree with mileage. With the torque and weight if you are aggressive it eats tyres. It seems to like back to gas to settle. Then a linear wind on. But then again. At times its good fun to play with it. I find the bike like a heavy pendulum. You cant just demand too much. It needs a smoother flow and transitions to move the weight or it gets itself a bit tied up.
I do think matching the front to the rear with a new Mk4 will improve it.
It would be great to be able to try a few different tyres and find what works best without having to do 5000km on them. Those Metzlers do read well and look like they'd be great also.
I tested on Michelins in 2014 and 2015 and just couldn't get on with them. I think they were Power One? Lots of small holes as tread pattern. They had a narrow window and weren't progressive. But in 2023 I tried the 5's road tyre on a GSXS1000 and again. It just felt off to me. Like that feeling when the tyre is starting to work and dig in and feedback. Wasn't there. Felt a bit numb then snappy. The issue is probably with me and riding style or what I want a tyre to feel like. As they are very popular.
Yes. Agree with mileage. With the torque and weight if you are aggressive it eats tyres. It seems to like back to gas to settle. Then a linear wind on. But then again. At times its good fun to play with it. I find the bike like a heavy pendulum. You cant just demand too much. It needs a smoother flow and transitions to move the weight or it gets itself a bit tied up.
I do think matching the front to the rear with a new Mk4 will improve it.
It would be great to be able to try a few different tyres and find what works best without having to do 5000km on them. Those Metzlers do read well and look like they'd be great also.
I'm still using Metzeler Z8 Interact on my 2018 R1200R - OEM fitment when new. Less expensive than most options and work very well. Not sure they do a 190 rear section, though.
Larry Langford
Registered user
A great example of why tire advice is so tricky it seems, and the wide range of possibilities. Metzler Z8's was the tire that I shredded on my new RS. And I wasn't really used to the massively powerful brakes on the modern bikes. And being a late braker that front tire didn't have a chance. But it works for some people. almost all the tires choices out there could run and in fact be worked with if that is what you want ....
Larry Langford
Registered user
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I totally agree with the Dunlop comments. On my air head, people would sell me metzlers and other light tires for mid sized bikes all the time as the bike was a 600 at first. But all the / model airheads are the same bike mainly, just with different size jugs. They all weigh nearly the same. I had some sun rims laced up for it at woodies wheel works with stainless spokes, They also put on some dunlop touring tires on the bike and they are splendid. Very strong but still faster than 99% of all riders I'm sure, no real limmits there. But they don't like the paint. Strong tires work better for me, late braker ....
I try not to brake at all and certainly not late if I can avoid it ...
EGR
Registered user
Great information, all, thanks. Our RS is into shop Saturday for first check. It has Michelin road 6 or such. In these few miles I've been pleasantly surprised. But, obviously, conservative miles. In past, Michelins never made me comfy on our roads. Appalachian, edge of tire all day, bottom half of gearbox, blisters on left great toe. Michelins seemed a bit a bit fickle. Time will tell.
Long experience has kept me in the Dunlop camp, mostly Q tires on double R and recently on S1xr for 50k miles, road smarts. This RS opens lots of learning opportunities. Mind, at 8.3 decades and rolling healing up is an iffy thing now so no lean angle data reports...
Long experience has kept me in the Dunlop camp, mostly Q tires on double R and recently on S1xr for 50k miles, road smarts. This RS opens lots of learning opportunities. Mind, at 8.3 decades and rolling healing up is an iffy thing now so no lean angle data reports...
Just to keep this updated. I forgot to post.
The Sportsmart Mk4 front, and rear, are for sure different to the Mk3. Especially the front. The Mk4 is a bit more of a V shape. It doesnt feel like it makes the bike twitchy or anything. But the difference once it it turned and loaded is significant. Alot more grip and feel. And even with that new rear having 3000km now and half worn it still doesnt move as much as the Mk3 did.
Interesting reading the old posts back. As with the Mk4 rear and Mk3 front it felt like the front was working hard. Not tucking. But for sure felt it pushing a bit when driving on exit and its clear now that is down to the Mk4 rear having more grip and the tyres not being a matched pair. The 4's are a real noticeable improvement. And seem to be wearing better too.
I dont think I'll risk it by trying the Metzler 02's. The new Dunlops seem to really suit the bike. And that's important. It is very easy to "Over Tyre" a bike and tie the chassis in knots. The tyre needs to work with the geometry and weight etc. It feels the new versions match the bike perfectly. Really impressive. So much so I have to lift it up mid corner to stop it grinding itself to death.
The Sportsmart Mk4 front, and rear, are for sure different to the Mk3. Especially the front. The Mk4 is a bit more of a V shape. It doesnt feel like it makes the bike twitchy or anything. But the difference once it it turned and loaded is significant. Alot more grip and feel. And even with that new rear having 3000km now and half worn it still doesnt move as much as the Mk3 did.
Interesting reading the old posts back. As with the Mk4 rear and Mk3 front it felt like the front was working hard. Not tucking. But for sure felt it pushing a bit when driving on exit and its clear now that is down to the Mk4 rear having more grip and the tyres not being a matched pair. The 4's are a real noticeable improvement. And seem to be wearing better too.
I dont think I'll risk it by trying the Metzler 02's. The new Dunlops seem to really suit the bike. And that's important. It is very easy to "Over Tyre" a bike and tie the chassis in knots. The tyre needs to work with the geometry and weight etc. It feels the new versions match the bike perfectly. Really impressive. So much so I have to lift it up mid corner to stop it grinding itself to death.
Ahhh… just bought some Roadsmart as a change after 3 sets of Michelin 6GT’s on my RT,
Like you I didn’t get on with the 4’s, but didn’t find the 5’s too bad, and the 6’s I find a bit hard even 2-up and fully laden.
I’ve heard that the Mutants were good, perhaps I should have tried them instead!
So, have started cautiously and fitted the Metzeler 02s. Have done about 400 miles so far, mostly dry, and definitely prefer them to the Raodsmarts. They're fairly neutral steering, (bit slower turn in than the Road 6s I had on a loan bike recently), but really stable at all speeds. So far have not had any grip issues on any road surface, including broken and gritty roads, but have only been in light rain - will update if torrential rain changes my mind!
Reckon I'll give the Mutants a go next time, even if only to see the look of distress on the face of 'but it's a sport bike!' purists
Reckon I'll give the Mutants a go next time, even if only to see the look of distress on the face of 'but it's a sport bike!' purists
EGR
Registered user
Exactly. For myself I'd include rider technique in the balance and match-up favorite tire mix. IMO the bevel fronts are good for hard trail brakers who then off apex unload the fronts and then squat the rears leaned over. I never do that. One of the reasons I stopped doing track days was having to listen to bitching from the trail brakers about how I'm incorrect braking straight up, tipping in, scrubbing and then accelerating very early thru apex all smooth balanced feeling while they're still on brakes showing me a wheel... and, of course, when they'd planed on gassing up past me I'm standing up already and gone... Not to their plan. Learned from multi year national champ vintage AHRMA coach. Balanced overall partnership definitely has bearing on tire choice for me.
Now tried in torrential rain and all is well with the world
I kept the storm clouds company from Gloucestershire to London with only one squeaky moment (bit of overbanding) so these are miles better for me than the RoadsmartsAnd this is what its all about. The tyre is a tool for a job. Thats why there are so many options. Its finding the right tyre for the bike, weight, geometry, and rider use and purpose. Even- what will work on a Triple Black may be different to a Performance model. And again, it possible to over tyre a bike and it creates a miss match. The tyre moving on overbanding, just how it is, nothing will grip on that. Same as wet roads really. I only ever see about 35 deg lean on the screen in the wet here. But as you say, if there is decent feel. The wet isnt an issue.
A good example of this over tyre thing is- on those Mk3 Sportsmarts. Bike was good. Liked them. Rear moved a bit at times. Then moved a bit more when tyre was worn but at that point it was becoming a bit too early. But overall. Bike was good.
The Mk4. Improved tyre. But personally I think this tyre is the maximum for the bike. The front is a little more V, but is actually fantastic. Big improvement. Rear again. Real noticeable grip difference. But this higher grip means higher speeds. Riding home there are a few fast sections. A long 4th gear left hander before was no issues. Now the bike drags the peg so bad you have to lift it up as its going to go through the blob and take out the nice billet peg. The reason for this isnt lean. Because even resetting the dash before riding this past as a test. The bike is only at 48 on the gauge. Its because the grip is more, the feel is better, so the speed is higher so the whole bike is compressing in its stroke as the corner turns then kinda goes uphill slightly. Where as other 3rd gear type corners itll show 51-52 at times and not scrape anything.
What my waffle is about is. On factory Mk3's. The feel and also grip were a little less. So the bike worked in a zone. Increase them. This changes the bikes working parameters and moves it to a slightly different zone. Where these now quirks/issues occur. Now, put that tyre on a Triple Black that doesnt have the 10mm higher suspension and it'll drag itself on the ground so much it could be a problem.
As always its test, asess. Now the bike likes alot of trailing brakes and feels great doing it. Really feedsback. And all down to that different front tyre. Turning in trailing the front more the bike comes to you. Feels more natural. But mid corner. Want to turn a little tighter. Move line a bit. Before the rear brake made a big difference to it. But now, it does make a difference. But it more makes it feel stable rather than helping it turn. Completely changed what the controls do as a rider. And how the bike reacts to them. And all down to tyres.
Last point also is- Running standard pressures. 2.3F, 2.5R. When hot those go to 2.4F, 2.6 or 7 R. Tyres run clean. No bad set up tearing or balling up. But if the pressues drop a little over the weeks. And the rear is 2.4 to 2.5 hot. The rear moves every time you try to drive it out a corner hard at lean. Squirms and pumps on the shock a little. Again, combination of tyre and bike. That tyre with that weight of bike likes higher pressure to hold its shape and give grip. Where as if you read Internet information the advise is to lower pressures to add grip. But on the RS all that seems to do it cause the carcass to bend and change the contact patch making it move.
I find it all quite interesting.
A good example of this over tyre thing is- on those Mk3 Sportsmarts. Bike was good. Liked them. Rear moved a bit at times. Then moved a bit more when tyre was worn but at that point it was becoming a bit too early. But overall. Bike was good.
The Mk4. Improved tyre. But personally I think this tyre is the maximum for the bike. The front is a little more V, but is actually fantastic. Big improvement. Rear again. Real noticeable grip difference. But this higher grip means higher speeds. Riding home there are a few fast sections. A long 4th gear left hander before was no issues. Now the bike drags the peg so bad you have to lift it up as its going to go through the blob and take out the nice billet peg. The reason for this isnt lean. Because even resetting the dash before riding this past as a test. The bike is only at 48 on the gauge. Its because the grip is more, the feel is better, so the speed is higher so the whole bike is compressing in its stroke as the corner turns then kinda goes uphill slightly. Where as other 3rd gear type corners itll show 51-52 at times and not scrape anything.
What my waffle is about is. On factory Mk3's. The feel and also grip were a little less. So the bike worked in a zone. Increase them. This changes the bikes working parameters and moves it to a slightly different zone. Where these now quirks/issues occur. Now, put that tyre on a Triple Black that doesnt have the 10mm higher suspension and it'll drag itself on the ground so much it could be a problem.
As always its test, asess. Now the bike likes alot of trailing brakes and feels great doing it. Really feedsback. And all down to that different front tyre. Turning in trailing the front more the bike comes to you. Feels more natural. But mid corner. Want to turn a little tighter. Move line a bit. Before the rear brake made a big difference to it. But now, it does make a difference. But it more makes it feel stable rather than helping it turn. Completely changed what the controls do as a rider. And how the bike reacts to them. And all down to tyres.
Last point also is- Running standard pressures. 2.3F, 2.5R. When hot those go to 2.4F, 2.6 or 7 R. Tyres run clean. No bad set up tearing or balling up. But if the pressues drop a little over the weeks. And the rear is 2.4 to 2.5 hot. The rear moves every time you try to drive it out a corner hard at lean. Squirms and pumps on the shock a little. Again, combination of tyre and bike. That tyre with that weight of bike likes higher pressure to hold its shape and give grip. Where as if you read Internet information the advise is to lower pressures to add grip. But on the RS all that seems to do it cause the carcass to bend and change the contact patch making it move.
I find it all quite interesting.
Larry Langford
Registered user
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One thing I can say for sure is the RS, being rather heavy for a full on sport bike, whether it is a 1200, 1250 or 1300, transforms with the right tires into a better faster safer machine. I do find the input from the tire test I posted to be very valid and not a shill. Impossible for me to disregard this, it is. And here is why;
The Isle of Man is coming right up and I think a lot of the new tech in these new improved tires may have came from there when Hickman manages to get a BMW factory rep and a tire guy on his racing team. This was during the year when Hickman broke the track record on his "stock" bike in the stock class. They usually have a shorter superbike race at the beginning of the week. Then they have the stock race a day or two later, and the senior TT on the last day. Well a bunch of us wanted to know why he broke the track record, which still stands, on the "stock" bike. It didn't make any sense. But at the time he was posting on a youtube channel (possibly the isle of man channel) for fans a little. About ten or twelve of us asked about this conundrum. He said, oh thats easy, This year we have a tire guy and and still have a factory BMW rep. Apparently, the tire guy took input from the first race and sent that to the factory and had tires made that night, and learjet-ed the new tires back to the isle of man for the stock races. It turns out the adjustments were profound improvements. I suspect that they found a way to make the tire sidewalls much stronger without losing any feedback it seems. You can see the difference in the onboard cameras videos. If you go back to 2015 or 16 when John Mcguinness won, you can see the bike squirming all over, especially after long straights into sharp turns. Fast forward to now and all the riders now have the better tires and you don't see them squirming much at all and they are much faster. And it seems that this has trickled down into better, stronger tires for everyone if they choose to update to them. Some of the very latest tires are likely to be very good indeed. Hickman literally said; tires tires tires
I have never dragged the pegs on my RS. But I do have the pegs in the highest position. I use a hang off style where you ease off the seat coming into the corner and slide over. All my weight is on the pegs, not the seat during the turn. So you can keep the bike much more upright and still take it right up to drift. This is why I still have the pegs in the highest position. Any lower and I have to lunge to get up it seems. With the weight on the pegs the center of gravity is much lower. I hang off like Noonan did, having came from an airhead, which was all the style with those back in the day, hanging off. IMO it's a lot easier to keep the bike from high-siding when your hanging off a lot. And if you do get beat to the inside, you just low side right onto your leathers. At the track of course. But I do this a lot and never exceed the speed limit on public roads, by eliminating the charge out of the corner and just putting a long to the next turn. I love to work on matching shifts and RPMs, corner apexes, and making sure I corner as strong to the right as the left, which isn't easy. You probably won't see me on an auto version I predict .......
The thing is. The 1200 and 1250 arent the same bike as the 1300. There are enough differences to make the info pretty much irrelevant between the models.
The 1300 has the gearbox below the engine. Different weight distribution. The engine is 4kg lighter and drive train 6.5kg. Also wheels are lighter. Forks have electric spring rate adjustment which changes travel. And the main one it has a 190/55 tyre. Overall its heavier . But all those things completely change how the bike carries itself and what it needs tyre wise. Hence the reason the rounded U shape front Metzler 01 was popular on the 1250.
Anyway. The beauty of it all is there is something out there for everyone. And combining the right tyre to the bike. So they match and enhance each other completely changes the experience. Then sharing that. People can decide, bounce ideas about, and everyone benefits.
The 1300 has the gearbox below the engine. Different weight distribution. The engine is 4kg lighter and drive train 6.5kg. Also wheels are lighter. Forks have electric spring rate adjustment which changes travel. And the main one it has a 190/55 tyre. Overall its heavier . But all those things completely change how the bike carries itself and what it needs tyre wise. Hence the reason the rounded U shape front Metzler 01 was popular on the 1250.
Anyway. The beauty of it all is there is something out there for everyone. And combining the right tyre to the bike. So they match and enhance each other completely changes the experience. Then sharing that. People can decide, bounce ideas about, and everyone benefits.
Larry Langford
Registered user
I totally agree and the 1250 is the best for me, by far ..... but when your crossed up, sliding too fast into a corner, it doesn't make much difference whether you have 1200 or 1300 and as far as tires they are all the same bikes ...
You know we do have a forum that is admin-ed by wessie, that has all the RS's represented. No one sticks there nose up if someone with an older bike posts something ......
