Using oil??

[mhsnowy]

Got a message from a mate who is currently doing a trip out in the Pyrennes that his X challenge is using oil.
He reckons its used about half a litre in 500 miles!

Seems a bit excessive considering the bike has only done 15000 miles from new.

Still runs great and no unusual noises and doesn't seam to be smoking.

What is the likely cause if it is using oil........rings? What would be the likely symptoms?

 

[Dansin]

If it was rings then surely it would be smoking like the proverbial. If it's the same water pump as the f650gs and the seals are failing, then it could be allowing oil into the coolant system. But I'm sure he'd have noticed half a litre of oil in there... Head gasket on its way out? Again, could mean oil into the coolant.

 

[GFJ]

I can only think of 3 general options.
1. Rings/ wear as above.
2. Some internal seal as above, or
3. Leak externally, check both drain plugs, filter housing, then failing that, the engine cases for damage.
That said, if he's losing it at the rate described, then should be fairly obvious is have thought.

 

[mhsnowy]

No external leaks at all.

I'll get him to check his water levels.

 

[Losttheplot]

This might sound like a daft question, but he is following the correct procedure for checking the oil?

IMHO these bikes are a pain for trying to get an accurate oil level reading due to the way they are supposed to be checked. IIRC there is a difference of 250ml's between the marks on the dipstick, and this can vary on my bike depending on the temperature of the bike, the position of the moon, which way the wind is blowing...

When was it last serviced?

Does he have a standard exhaust fitted? if it is rings or valve stem seals, i wonder if the oil is burning off in the cat?

Has he checked the drain plug on the back of the oil tank? any signs of weeping here?

Any signs of oil in the bottom of the airbox? remove filter and have a look, IIRC the crankcase breather runs into the bottom RHS of the airbox as you are sat on the bike. has the bike been over and the engine blown it's oil into the airbox?

 

[ian640]

Air filter blocked = rich running = oil burning?

 

[mhsnowy]

This might sound like a daft question, but he is following the correct procedure for checking the oil?

IMHO these bikes are a pain for trying to get an accurate oil level reading due to the way they are supposed to be checked. IIRC there is a difference of 250ml's between the marks on the dipstick, and this can vary on my bike depending on the temperature of the bike, the position of the moon, which way the wind is blowing...

When was it last serviced? Just before he went away

Does he have a standard exhaust fitted? if it is rings or valve stem seals, i wonder if the oil is burning off in the cat? Akrapovic with cat removed fitted

Has he checked the drain plug on the back of the oil tank? any signs of weeping here? No signs of any leaks

Any signs of oil in the bottom of the airbox? remove filter and have a look, IIRC the crankcase breather runs into the bottom RHS of the airbox as you are sat on the bike. has the bike been over and the engine blown it's oil into the airbox?With 500ml oil I would have thought it would be leaking out of the air box drain on the left side.

Thanks for the suggestions though,

 

[mhsnowy]

Air filter blocked = rich running = oil burning?

The oil is be separate from the fuel side so even if the air box is blocked it shouldn't burn the oil. If its running rich it will burn more fuel.

The only way the oil could be burned off is if the rings/bore are worn or the valve guide oil seals are knackered.

 

[mhsnowy]

He contacted me earlier today and states that the bike is running absolutely great and doesn't appear to lacking in performance or smoking excessively. He did accelerate hard then shut the throttle and got some smoke on re-accellaration but still not excessive.

 

[IJGser]

Have to agree the 'correct' method to chq the oil is a pain in the ass, hence I don't chq mine often.
But after reading this I think its time I did.

Sounds strange and I hope it's not to serious.

P.S mine has never used any oil.

 

[flatdog]

Valve stem seals.

Why, if there are no visible oil leaks onto manifolds, into rad (head gasket or no oil on the cylinder head) or under acceleration (rings worn) or loss of compression performance, and oil is still being used then try following him down a long steep hill with his engine doing the braking, blue smoke on overrun tends to signify worn valve guides / seals. IMO of course

Stick your thumb in the exhaust and see if oily soot cakes the inside. This shows the presence of oil being burnt in compression (rings) or overrun (stem seals / top end)

Exhaust (normal) = only light grey soot on his finger, then its elsewhere or he's just panicking

 

[mhsnowy]

He doesn't seem to be getting a constant burn of oil showing and people following can't smell it either.
Nothing shows when he decelerates then on acceleration he gets a puff of slightly blue smoke and then a slight smell of oil then stops.

He has dark sooty deposits in the end of the exhaust.

Still no loss of performance.

Looking like valve stem seals?

 

[Losttheplot]

He doesn't seem to be getting a constant burn of oil showing and people following can't smell it either.
Nothing shows when he decelerates then on acceleration he gets a puff of slightly blue smoke and then a slight smell of oil then stops.

He has dark sooty deposits in the end of the exhaust.

Still no loss of performance.

Looking like valve stem seals?

Valve stem seals normally show up one first start up, as oil will run down the stems and past the seals to accumulate in the combustion area, this means the engine will smoke like a b@st@rd for the first few minutes while this oil is burnt off.

But even so, so get 500 mls of oil past a valve stem seal in the time taken would be quite an achievement.

As for the airbox drain, the oil would drain out if your drain tube does not have a screw in the end, as my bike has. this as far as i'm aware has been in there since new so i presume is a factory fit item. Might be worth checking.

Thinking this through, with the lack of smoke, no signs of leakage and no drop in performance, i wonder if the garage that serviced his bike didn't put enough oil in to start with?

They are a pain to fill being dry sump, and if it's a job that is rushed you won't get enough oil in it. The levels will appear fine, but if the engine hasn't had a good run immediately after filling, it won't have filled the filter and oil ways, but will appear fine on the dipstick.

The more i think about it, i think this is what i'd put my money on.

Has it used anymore oil since being filled up?

 

[ian640]

The oil is be separate from the fuel side so even if the air box is blocked it shouldn't burn the oil. If its running rich it will burn more fuel.

The only way the oil could be burned off is if the rings/bore are worn or the valve guide oil seals are knackered.

No - running rich = unburnt fuel in chamber that thins out the oil residue on the bore that then gets burnt. That's why you might get smoke if you run with the choke on on a carbed bike. Not sure if EFI would compensate though.

(not starting a debate, just my £0.02-worth )