very flat battery

[foolmaker]

Hi all used my gsa for a hundred plus mile trip the other day then parked up for 5 days went to go out for a little bimble Monday no ignition on bike ????
put a volt meter on battery and it read 0 volts so I charged it and started the bike all ok revs well and ticks over spot on
with the engine running 14+ volts going into the battery so all good there
I kept the battery connected all day today checked volts and 12 + so no short I have a new battery on order as I suspect its to blame I just wondered if this has happened to anyone else

 

[Roymondo]

Sounds like a dead battery to me. I would hazard a guess that it's about three years old? BMW OE batteries are sometimes prone to failure at around that age (on some F800 forums, it even has a name - SBDS (Sudden Battery Death Syndrome))

 

[Bendy toy]

If you have one, whack on an Optimate charger and see what happens.

Also check the current drain when the bike is parked - put an ammeter between one of the battery posts and main cable. If its more than a few mA there might be an issue with the bike's electrical system. Some alarms can be questionable with batteries.

BTW, the Optimate (even a canbus friendly model) is much more reliable if connected direct to the battery rather than via an accessory socket. Just wire the Optimate connector to the battery.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

When the batteries die, they do it very suddenly with very little warning. Don't bother fecking about testing the old one and just fit the new one and away you go.

 

[Wapping]

Sgt Bilko is spot on.

Even if you can persuade the battery to take a little bit of charge from an Optimate (maybe even enough to start the bike) it will not hold the charge during the ride.

The bike will simply run off its alternator... Until that is the moment you stop and turn off the ignition... The bike will, in all probability, not restart again; the battery having insufficient power to excite the ECU's circuitry. You'll be left on the side with one very dead bike. If you decide to go down this route, do invest in Roadside Recovery.

 

[(RIP) Miff]

I replaced my GS' original BMW battery with one of these. The OE battery is made by exide, and is also an AGM battery.

Dunno if the GSA uses the same size battery, but I'd think it would.

Old battery 6-7 years old.


Shiny new battery


I think I paid £28 ish, but that was trade price.

 

[foolmaker]

Hi thanks for the replies new motoblatt battery on order.
As more than one of you said I have no plans to ride the bike with the old battery even though it started up ok today.
Just a little bit surprised at how it died have had many bikes over the last 30 years and never had one go so quickly and give no warning

 

[MUD]

Must be the week for battery's .....my new one should be here tomorrow

Has anyone tried bump starting a 1200gsa ??

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Must be the week for battery's .....my new one should be here tomorrow

Has anyone tried bump starting a 1200gsa ??

I tried bump starting my gs.... :screwy:

Sorry. I'm on the phone.

 

[Bendy toy]

Mine has a lambda problem so stalls at low speed (new one on order). It cant be bumped in a low gear without locking the back wheel. It will bump in 3rd (just) but you'll need a steep hill and even then it may lock up the wheel.

 

[Dom S]

Weak Odyssey Battery

Although it hasn't died suddenly, my Odyssey battery on the GS appears to have died after only a couple of years as it now struggles to turn the engine when "fully charged" and if the bike doesn't start first time, she ain't gonna start!

After reading around, it appears it may be my own fault, as I didn't realise I should be using an Odyssey-recommended charger (like their 6 amp smart charger) to charge/trickle it.

I'd been using a few different lower amp "smart" chargers (0.5 amp transformer, a CTEK clone or Optimate III) when leaving the bike unused for days or weeks. I thought the low amps would counter the alarm drain, without risk of cooking the battery. Apparently the lower amp (or non-recommended) chargers can damage the Odyssey batteries.

I seem to remember my old Westco battery didn't live too long either, maybe it was equally fussy about the charging method!

I also have an cheaper, older type sealed lead acid battery on my Firestorm that's rarely used, but left on a cheap 0.5 amp trickle charger to prevent the alarm draining the battery. It usually fires up with plenty of power after sitting for months

Looks like I might have to treat the GS to a new (cheaper!) battery.

 

[Bendy toy]

Before the battery is condemned check the starter motor brushes are not worn or dirty

 

[Dom S]

Good point, but my battery/starting has been weak for a while, just about good enough to get me from A to B and back (usually!) and the engine spun over well when I had to jump start it a while back, so I think the starter brushes are probably ok. Time for a new battery I guess.

I see Miff's original BMW battery has the charging details on it and I guess that new Exide one is the same, but they don't mention trickle/smart chargers.

My Odyssey is also an AGM battery and that needed a "special" smart charger apparently. Disconnecting the battery is a faff (unless I fit a cut-out switch), so does anyone know if the BMW/Exide ones are "fussy" about leaving a trickle charger on when not being used?

 

[Bendy toy]

Mine has been happy with an Optimate 3.
Why would an AGM (advanced glass mat) battery should have problems with an optimate? The chemistry is lead acid just like plain vanilla bike battery.

 

[Dom S]

I'd have thought so too Bendy.

I don't know about the other makes of AGM battery, but certainly the EnerSys Odyssey batteries seem to be a bit "fussy" about how they're charged and what type of charger charges them.

I'm posting this from my experience in the hope I can help someone else avoid damaging (or disposing of!) a good battery ...or buying a rubbish one

Perhaps all batteries are the same and I've just been plain lucky for the past 30 odd years by connecting a low amp 12V smart charger to my good old car and bike batteries when they were going a bit flat and waiting until charged, but they certainly lasted a lot longer than the sub 2 years of my Westco and Odyssey ones!

I have an Optimate 3 charger as well as others and (according to the Odyssey manual) they'll keep the batteries topped up fine, but I think my problem may have been where I hadn't used the bike for a while and the alarm drained the battery to the point where it needed a recharge with a 6/7 amp charger (again, according to the manual). I assumed the Optimate and other similar low amp smart chargers would safely and slowly desulphate the battery and bring it back to a FULL charge (as indicated on the charger). According to the Odyssey manual, they'll only bring it back to a "State of Charge" high enough to crank the engine, not a FULL charge. So if the bike isn't run long enough for the alternator to fully charge the battery, the battery probably never gets properly charged ...and possibly degrades more quickly? I also ride with 150W dipped beam bulb which may not help the recharging!

Odyssey battery charging details on page 15...
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf

Odyssey "approved" chargers...
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/ODYSSEYapproved12VchargersMay2013_000.pdf

Yes, I should've RTFM and not assumed anything.

 

[Bendy toy]

I would love to fit a Ballistic battery. Its small and not lead acid so no sulphation, but the cost is still on the silly side of high.

 

[Dom S]

Ooh, I don't know about that, you might want to have a look at the reviews here first...

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/14/70/943/40097/ITEM/Ballistic-EVO2-Battery.aspx

Looks like they're fine for a race kart/bike if you want to save weight and only use it in warm conditions, but on a GS all year round? ...more hassle than an Odyssey I reckon!

 

[Steptoe]

Mine has been happy with an Optimate 3.
Why would an AGM (advanced glass mat) battery should have problems with an optimate? The chemistry is lead acid just like plain vanilla bike battery.

AGM needs more than an optimate 3 for it to get a full 100% charge.

Something a bit of omph to overcome the resistance before it starts to charge.

 

[Roymondo]

AGM needs more than an optimate 3 for it to get a full 100% charge.

Something a bit of omph to overcome the resistance before it starts to charge.

I think any Optimate 2 or 3 would be fine to maintain a AGM battery, but as you say you might well need an Optimate 3+ or better to resurrect a discharged one.

 

[Bendy toy]

All lead acid batteries basically move sulphate from the "water" to the plates when fully charged. But when they self discharge they will get contaminated with non soluble sulphate. They also go to a non soluble state when discharged below their safe minimum (9.5V I believe but dont quote that).

When that happens the battery wont hold a charge which is where the Optimate wake up charge comes in. It gives a controlled over charge of about 20V or more for a short time and tests to see if its now holding charge. It does this three times then shows the battery as not recoverable. Any more would be harmful but the battery like that is dead anyway.

I've recovered a few batteries like this and they have gone on to give good service life. One was used on a caravan tracker and taken to totally flat. I used the Optimate and the battery then worked as my mother's mower starter for at least year but vibration eventually destroyed it.

Older batteries seemed to be recovered, but they soon failed anyway.

The optimate will do its diagnostic then trickle charge the battery. A previously good one that's been over-discharged will take hours to reach full capacity. A bad battery might be full in an hour or two. The trick is to watch how long it takes to go from discharged to full.

This explains what's going on:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it/

I dont entirely subscribe to their comments about high voltage boost chargers being harmful. The 12V Optimate uses low current and about 20 or 24 volts to boost an over discharged battery. If its no good after three attempts it gives up. Such a battery is dead. On the other hand a heavy duty charger might also work, but too much brutalisation will damage and otherwise recoverable battery.