Was considering an MS but went for the GSA

[dongleplonk]

There is a thread on comparing/considering the Ducati MS with the GS/A but I wanted to contribute my experience for those with the same dilemma now that I've made my personal decision.

I have been a sports bike / sports tourer person for the past 30 years (Oh my!).

I was offered a test ride on a MS for 30 mins, accompanied. I looked at the bike, looked, stared, looked again and although the thing is a real beauty, when I went to Cotswold BMW, they gave me as long as I wanted for the test ride on a GSA, unaccompanied - all weekend and more if I needed. Full tank of fuel, no pressure.

I bought the GSA straight after the test ride without bothering to test ride the MS.

When I got the bike, I really did have a huge grin on my face as I rode it through the Cotswolds back home - no really, a BIG grin!

Ok - then I had 1st service, booked it in and also noted about a pinging noise from the exhaust which I wanted investigating (turned out to be the exhaust flap apparently - no big issue).

I needed a loan bike - they gave me a brand new out the showroom 1200RT.

I had that RT for a couple of days, no charge. [I didn't like it particularly but that's another story].

Picked up my GSA and am happy.

It's not just the bike, but the service that counts too.

Now this is my personal experience of BMW service so far. I'm sure it's not *always* every time like this and I'm sure people on this board have had the odd less pleasant experience but it's good to think that in the UK, BMW seem to be trying to maintain quality. I've had BMW cars before and found 7/10 service there but have never previously bought a BMW bike.

Build issues, not sure about that yet I guess, as I need run the bike for another few K miles to see how that pans out.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples experience when making this decision too.

 

[sanghelli]

Good luck with the new bike. I have 14 and a bit k on the clock of mine and have to say my experience with service here in Ireland is pretty similar. Best one was the day I left the GS in for a 6k service and rode out with a new S1000 for the day! At least now I know I definitely don't want a sports bike.

Again enjoy and keep us posted.

 

[jbodin]

There is a thread on comparing/considering the Ducati MS with the GS/A but I wanted to contribute my experience for those with the same dilemma now that I've made my personal decision.

I have been a sports bike / sports tourer person for the past 30 years (Oh my!).

I was offered a test ride on a MS for 30 mins, accompanied. I looked at the bike, looked, stared, looked again and although the thing is a real beauty, when I went to Cotswold BMW, they gave me as long as I wanted for the test ride on a GSA, unaccompanied - all weekend and more if I needed. Full tank of fuel, no pressure.

I bought the GSA straight after the test ride without bothering to test ride the MS.

When I got the bike, I really did have a huge grin on my face as I rode it through the Cotswolds back home - no really, a BIG grin!

Ok - then I had 1st service, booked it in and also noted about a pinging noise from the exhaust which I wanted investigating (turned out to be the exhaust flap apparently - no big issue).

I needed a loan bike - they gave me a brand new out the showroom 1200RT.

I had that RT for a couple of days, no charge. [I didn't like it particularly but that's another story].

Picked up my GSA and am happy.

It's not just the bike, but the service that counts too.

Now this is my personal experience of BMW service so far. I'm sure it's not *always* every time like this and I'm sure people on this board have had the odd less pleasant experience but it's good to think that in the UK, BMW seem to be trying to maintain quality. I've had BMW cars before and found 7/10 service there but have never previously bought a BMW bike.

Build issues, not sure about that yet I guess, as I need run the bike for another few K miles to see how that pans out.

I'd be interested to hear other peoples experience when making this decision too.

I had some recent experiance with Cotswold BMW Motorad, rear oil seal replaced on my 2008GSA. Phoned up on the monday was in the dealer tuesday morning, job done and bike valeted.
All the staff were very helpfull, and I just had a nice feeling about this dealeship.
Local dealers quoted 4 weeks to do this job, and promised phone calls never materialised.
Although it's a fair trip for me to go, their attitude and commitment to help is well worth the effort to go again.
As for the GSA, it's now close on 20k, with age it's just getting better.Mates of mine have gone down the Multistrada route, and still they prefer the overall GSA experiance.
My mate is keeping his 2010 GSA and the Multistrada is now on ebay.
Enjoy your GSA

 

[Simon_h]

you get what you pay for. To be fair, Ducati must get more tyre kickers than any other brand.

 

[Rasher]

you get what you pay for. To be fair, Ducati must get more tyre kickers than any other brand.

I bet BMW dealers are getting their fare share since the S1000RR was launched

 

[cookie]

me too

 

[2 wheel humvee]

me too

It's a done deal then

 

[dongleplonk]

It's a done deal then

Hi Cookie, why did you fall on that side of the fence then?

 

[cookie]

Hi Cookie, why did you fall on that side of the fence then?

'cos the MutleyStrangler just seems a bit small for two up with luggage trips. it's indecent turn of speed might not be such a good thing in the long run either.

i did take the precaution of not riding one though, as i knew that would almost certainly mean i'd have to buy one anyway. i thought i'd stick with what i know

 

[Deleted account 251212001]

i rode a multistrada touring again today. Bit of a ducati fan. Ticked quite few boxes but not quite enough....

GSA now on order.

 

[STUBBS]

the ms just didnt do it for me when i test rode it

 

[Rasher]

Loved the MS, but it seemed like a one up weekend warriors toy and not something I would fancy two weeks of two-up touring on. I am concerned about BMW reliability, but the thought of long term Ducati ownership is even more scary.

Going the other way for looking at bikes now, seeing how others dealers stack up against BMW, fancy a "keeper" for my next bike as I will want a bigger house and probably be stuck with the next bike for years to come, so this time around the dealer is probably as important as the bike.

I found it very easy to get a BMW test rides, but only an hour, despite being told "as long as you want" before going. Now trying to line up the competition, BMW definately seem to be the king of test ride availability and if I fancied upgrading to an adventure I bet fiding a demo would not be very hard.

Guzzi Stelvio - Just no bikes around as they seem to be selling well, but the dealer was very helpful and they wil put one on demo as soon as they can get hold of one.

Triumph Tiger 1200 - Apparently not likely to even in appear in the 2013 line-up.

Yamaha Tenere - Cannot find a demo bike, or a dealer that is likely to put one on demo, unless you fancy paying a few hundred quid for the "Tenere Experience".

Honda CrossTourer - These really do exist, hopefully in the showrooms next spring and I know my local Honda dealer will put on a Demo and give me a long test ride.

BMW - New GS soon? I bet the minute they appear a demo would be easy to obtain, and if I fancied an Adventure I am sure a demo could be found close by.

Should be some interesting comparison to be had, my initial thoughts are..

5. Triumph, ruled out by not having a bike in time, I want to change some time next year, the Tiger 1050 lost out to GS this time around and the 800 is smaller than what I want. A shame as the dealer seemed very helpful and I have heard good things about Triumph warranty and ongoing goodwill.

4. BMW will have the worst engine and indicators by far, but probably the best ergonomics and luggage. New model would be too risky bearing in mind 8 years of 1200 production and many problems still persist. Service costs are also a real negative. However the bike is definately setting the standards for how I judge the others, but as a package I want reliability, dealer / manufacturer support and reasonable running costs - an outside shot unless I get a two year old bike and go independant with servicing.

3. Yamaha, after reading the reviews I am doubting I will like the bike, plus dealers tend to be multi-brand and IMO fall into the "stack them high, sell them cheap, make money on finance" type of operation. I would expect great reliability and good running costs but that alone is not enough.

2. Stelvio will be close to GS and provide the quirky / different feel I like with the GS, I think the dealer will be a true enthusiast, not so sure about manufacturer backup or long term stability of brand / dealer. A likely winner if the Honda dissapoints

1. The Honda will be a Honda, smooth, efficient and bloody reliable with best dealer / manufacturer support. I certainly have no issues buying a Honda, especially from this dealer, I have experience of them going well beyond the call of duty. Service costs will be low, reliability very good, parts cheap - I am hoping the bike will be very good but fear it will have some stupid flaws such as crap luggage or 150 mile tank range.

If anyone knows where I can get a Stelvio / Tenere test ride I would be grateful.

 

[Ash]

Moto Guzzi / Yamaha UK.
will put you in touch with dealers who have demo's

 

[Gizmo*]

I'm a Ducati fan, owned quite a few inc 2 DS engine multis prior to the GS and have just ordered a GSA to replace GS eek. test rode a new multi, wasnt that impressed, too much power and it required my constant attention, hard to explain but on the gs i can be lazy, dont have to be fully focused but the mts is more sport bike like, you know the power is there, know it can really press on hard and if i wanted that I'd probably just go buy a sportsbike to have alongside a GS it felt like you were more in the middle of the bike, almost like it had a long swingarm , i was constantly taking care with the throttle in the wet, on the GS i hardly think about that, bike always feels planted. Pannier setup aint as good either, i need to carry camera kit and the GS does that easily, I couldnt even work out how I'd get it all on to the MTS. maybe me getting old but I dont want to rely upon electronics and want a bike that lets me relax

Oh, i bought a Guzzi Norge a few years ago, lasted about 10 months before it got chopped, Guzzi and after sales service don't go well together, list of faults was one thing, lack of back up from Piaggio was another, dealer was good but his hands were tied by Guzzi. they tried to get me to swap to a Stelvio, took one out, not too bad, heavier than GS, kit wasnt up to BM levels, overall impression was its OK but a few years behind BM in quality, finish and ride, suspension seemed cheap. test bike had paint flaking off sump guard, panniers leaked, some panels didnt fit well, not a great impression but tbh the norge had all that as well. you may find reason dealers dont have bikes is that the guzzi factory was closed a while ago, meant to be reopening but i dont know if it has, not sure if piaggio swapped production elsewhere though but i know an Italian mag just did a big trail bike test and Guzzi failed to deliver a stelvio for it.

 

[BBB61]

5. Triumph, ruled out by not having a bike in time, I want to change some time next year, the Tiger 1050 lost out to GS this time around and the 800 is smaller than what I want. A shame as the dealer seemed very helpful and I have heard good things about Triumph warranty and ongoing goodwill.

Where did you hear good things about the Triumph warranty? Their warranty department is the worst I have ever dealt with and do their best to reject claims, especially in relation to corrosion and paintwork. This is also the experience of others too.

4. BMW will have the worst engine and indicators by far, but probably the best ergonomics and luggage. New model would be too risky bearing in mind 8 years of 1200 production and many problems still persist. Service costs are also a real negative.

Have you actually obtained quotes from dealers of the other brands to see how the costs stack up against servicing a BMW? You say they are expensive, but when my wife was looking at the Kawasaki ER6 she was quoted £150 for the 4000 mile service, £180 for the 7500 and £150 for the 11500 mile service. We didn't get a quote for the biggie at 15000 but at £480 for 12000 miles worth of servicing that is pretty close to the cost of servcing a GS over the same mileage.

However the bike is definately setting the standards for how I judge the others, but as a package I want reliability, dealer / manufacturer support and reasonable running costs - an outside shot unless I get a two year old bike and go independant with servicing.

See above, it would be good if you got some actual costs on the bikes you are looking at. You would be surprised. For example, the 6000 mile service on a Triumph 955/1050 is not too bad, in the region of £150, but the 12000 is a biggie, with lots to be done. £450 is not an uncommon figure being charged for this service at dealers. Here is one dealers Triumph servicing prices:-

http://www.woodsmotorcycles.com/pdf/triumph estimated service pricing.pdf

They do not include VAT.

And the same dealers Ducati servicing costs:-

http://www.woodsmotorcycles.com/pdf/ducati estimated service pricing.pdf

Again, not including VAT.

3. Yamaha, after reading the reviews I am doubting I will like the bike, plus dealers tend to be multi-brand and IMO fall into the "stack them high, sell them cheap, make money on finance" type of operation. I would expect great reliability and good running costs but that alone is not enough.

Have you seen the list price of Yamaha's of late? They have gone through the roof. The Super Tenere is £12999, £2500 more than the GS. I don't know if the Yam has ABS as standard or not though, but that would still make a difference of £1600 between the two if you specced the GS with ABS. That's a hell of a lot of servicing and other stuff that could be bought with the difference in price between the two.

2. Stelvio will be close to GS and provide the quirky / different feel I like with the GS, I think the dealer will be a true enthusiast, not so sure about manufacturer backup or long term stability of brand / dealer. A likely winner if the Honda dissapoints

Not many Guzzi dealers around and although they have a long history as a manufacturer they have been owned by a number of different owners in the last 30 years. They don't manufacture anywhere near as many bikes as Triumph, Ducati or BMW, so your thoughts on back up may well be correct.

1. The Honda will be a Honda, smooth, efficient and bloody reliable with best dealer / manufacturer support. I certainly have no issues buying a Honda, especially from this dealer, I have experience of them going well beyond the call of duty. Service costs will be low, reliability very good, parts cheap - I am hoping the bike will be very good but fear it will have some stupid flaws such as crap luggage or 150 mile tank range.

What makes you think a Honda will be any cheaper to service than the other manufacturers? The main cost of any servicing is the hourly labour rate charged by the dealer. Honda still only have a 4000 mile service interval, so over 12000 miles a Honda will need 3 services compared to the 2 on the GS. If the Crosstourer has the VTEC system as used in the VFR800VTEC then the 16000 mile service is a real biggie, taking a few hours just to check the valve clearances, let alone service the rest of the bike.

If anyone knows where I can get a Stelvio / Tenere test ride I would be grateful.

Saunders of Knebworth had a demo Super Ten not so long ago.

You seem to have this perception that BMW's are far more expensive to service than other makes and the parts prices are far greater. This is not the case. Other manufacturers charge just as much for basic service items as BMW do. If you look at the cost of a genuine fuel filter for a 955 Triumph you will find it is £36. Yet this is identical to the fuel filter used by BMW for the 1100/1150 oilheads, but the price in a BMW dealership is half what Triumph charge for the same item. Just one example off the top of my head.

 

[karlp]

Where did you hear good things about the Triumph warranty? Their warranty department is the worst I have ever dealt with and do their best to reject claims, especially in relation to corrosion and paintwork. This is also the experience of others too.



Have you actually obtained quotes from dealers of the other brands to see how the costs stack up against servicing a BMW? You say they are expensive, but when my wife was looking at the Kawasaki ER6 she was quoted £150 for the 4000 mile service, £180 for the 7500 and £150 for the 11500 mile service. We didn't get a quote for the biggie at 15000 but at £480 for 12000 miles worth of servicing that is pretty close to the cost of servcing a GS over the same mileage.



See above, it would be good if you got some actual costs on the bikes you are looking at. You would be surprised. For example, the 6000 mile service on a Triumph 955/1050 is not too bad, in the region of £150, but the 12000 is a biggie, with lots to be done. £450 is not an uncommon figure being charged for this service at dealers. Here is one dealers Triumph servicing prices:-

http://www.woodsmotorcycles.com/pdf/triumph estimated service pricing.pdf

They do not include VAT.

And the same dealers Ducati servicing costs:-

http://www.woodsmotorcycles.com/pdf/ducati estimated service pricing.pdf

Again, not including VAT.



Have you seen the list price of Yamaha's of late? They have gone through the roof. The Super Tenere is £12999, £2500 more than the GS. I don't know if the Yam has ABS as standard or not though, but that would still make a difference of £1600 between the two if you specced the GS with ABS. That's a hell of a lot of servicing and other stuff that could be bought with the difference in price between the two.



Not many Guzzi dealers around and although they have a long history as a manufacturer they have been owned by a number of different owners in the last 30 years. They don't manufacture anywhere near as many bikes as Triumph, Ducati or BMW, so your thoughts on back up may well be correct.



What makes you think a Honda will be any cheaper to service than the other manufacturers? The main cost of any servicing is the hourly labour rate charged by the dealer. Honda still only have a 4000 mile service interval, so over 12000 miles a Honda will need 3 services compared to the 2 on the GS. If the Crosstourer has the VTEC system as used in the VFR800VTEC then the 16000 mile service is a real biggie, taking a few hours just to check the valve clearances, let alone service the rest of the bike.



Saunders of Knebworth had a demo Super Ten not so long ago.

You seem to have this perception that BMW's are far more expensive to service than other makes and the parts prices are far greater. This is not the case. Other manufacturers charge just as much for basic service items as BMW do. If you look at the cost of a genuine fuel filter for a 955 Triumph you will find it is £36. Yet this is identical to the fuel filter used by BMW for the 1100/1150 oilheads, but the price in a BMW dealership is half what Triumph charge for the same item. Just one example off the top of my head.

Why do you think he is called Rasher?


Tells lots of PORKIES

 

[Rasher]

Thanks Bob, good info there

We didn't get a quote for the biggie at 15000 but at £480 for 12000 miles worth of servicing that is pretty close to the cost of servcing a GS over the same mileage.

My local BMW dealer wanted over £400 for 12k + Annual so unless I travel a long way for servicing the BMW is very expensive, plus factor in possibility of £1500 FD failure and other bits and pieces that may fail (and cost a fortune) and the chances of the BMW being cheaper than any of the others is slim.

My Honda dealer wants £50 an hour, minor services are pretty simple, and the once in a while biggie probably won't put the average costs beyond BMW, and I bet the Final drive will last a lot longer (or be done under goodwill - I worked in a Honda dealer and they certainly used to be pretty fair with major failures that should not have happened)

Found dealer with both Stelvio and Tenere demo's, they were very honest about support as well and openly admitted if you do have a problem with the Guzzi then parts supply can be very slow.

The Yamaha should be very cheap to service, clearances do not need checking until about 30k, and again I would expect reliability to be great, and support in event of problems pretty decent. I think yamaha comes "loaded", yes it looks pricey, but add all the bits to a GS and it is a lot more - plus I suspect at some point Yamaha will be doing deals or these things are just gonna reside in a warehouse forever.

New Stelvio is much improved over older models, comes with Heated Grips, ABS, Luggage, Spot lights at not much more than base cost of normal GS.
Gonna ride both the available bikes although I won't do anything until I have tried new Honda, but you never know when less popular bikes will be on Demo again.

 

[BBB61]

Thanks Bob, good info there



My local BMW dealer wanted over £400 for 12k + Annual so unless I travel a long way for servicing the BMW is very expensive, plus factor in possibility of £1500 FD failure and other bits and pieces that may fail (and cost a fortune) and the chances of the BMW being cheaper than any of the others is slim.

There you go again with the "what if the FD fails" bollocks. If it fails then you will have to deal with it. If it doesn't then it is not something to be factored into routine servicing costs.

My Honda dealer wants £50 an hour, minor services are pretty simple, and the once in a while biggie probably won't put the average costs beyond BMW, and I bet the Final drive will last a lot longer (or be done under goodwill - I worked in a Honda dealer and they certainly used to be pretty fair with major failures that should not have happened)

There are plenty of examples of BMW doing stuff outside of warranty on a goodwill basis too. But at least you accept that factoring in all the service costs on a Honda will bring it up to the same level as BMW servicing costs. And as you said in another thread, you were quoted £230 for the 12k + annual by a BMW dealer.

Found dealer with both Stelvio and Tenere demo's, they were very honest about support as well and openly admitted if you do have a problem with the Guzzi then parts supply can be very slow.

That was very honest of them to admit that about parts supply.

The Yamaha should be very cheap to service, clearances do not need checking until about 30k, and again I would expect reliability to be great, and support in event of problems pretty decent. I think yamaha comes "loaded", yes it looks pricey, but add all the bits to a GS and it is a lot more - plus I suspect at some point Yamaha will be doing deals or these things are just gonna reside in a warehouse forever.

Should means bugger all. Get some quotes and then come back to us to make a fair comparison. The 2011 Tenere does not come "loaded". ABS and traction control are standard but heated grips and panniers are optional. If you add the dynamic pack to the £10550 list price of the GS it brings it up to £11945, £1054 less than the Yamaha, and with the tyre pressure control in addition to what the Yam has. But don't take my word for it, take a look here:-

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/uk/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt1200z-super-tenere.aspx

New Stelvio is much improved over older models, comes with Heated Grips, ABS, Luggage, Spot lights at not much more than base cost of normal GS.

The NTX model gets the panniers, the standard one comes without them, but the pricing is very competitive without a doubt.

Gonna ride both the available bikes although I won't do anything until I have tried new Honda, but you never know when less popular bikes will be on Demo again.

It will be a long wait to get a ride on the Honda.

 

[Alex B]

Test rode a Stelvio NTX last summer.

Expected lots of pleasant surprises, but although quite fast/lungey on the throttle, it was vibey, ergonomics were weird, everything rattled and the finish looked cheap (poor quality plastic, nothing quite fitted, even the screws looked cheap).

Worst of all are the MG dealers I've met.... look slightly shady (even when you can find one) and curse the factory for its unreliable response to spare shortages at the same time as trying to convince you to buy one. Moto Guzzi do have some good dealerships but they need to develop better relationships with them (in my view) and avoid the dodgy ones.

I had MGs through the 1970s and 1980s and I am sure they were better bikes then. Call me a Luddite, but the new MGs look great but require real dedication as an owner. And don't rely on the dealers to stay dealers for too long.

Frankly, a lot of the road tests by the journalist types are really a load of tosh. One well known journalist's write up on the MG NTX was probably influenced by all the fine wine they'd filled him up with the previous evening. They write what suits them, not you.

Even in Italy, buying a MG is a play of the cards (or so I'm told). And whoever designed the MG Stelvio front end needs shooting, to be frank.

 

[Rasher]

I really cannot see the Yamaha / Honda costing more than a GS to service, plus of course they only have a single service schedule and not this mileage service + Annual service double whammy.

The Honda VFR1200 (same engine) actually has 8,000 mile service intervals (or once per year - not both like BMW) not sure of Tenere intervals - will find out when I go for test ride.

I know the FD may not fail, but it is a relatively high risk if you keep the BMW for a few years or start piling on the miles, but even excluding it the annual + mile services do add up to a fair whack, and if anything does go wrong your paying £100 an hour and not £50 an hour, so a simple job such as a wheel bearing is gonna cost maybe £50 labour + £30 for the part with a Honda, but the BMW labout is gonna add £50 immediately and the chances are the parts will be a lot more expensive as well.

Will get service prices for the other bikes when I pop into dealers, just hope they are a bit more honest than the info I was given by a BMW dealer and won't add 50% on once I own the bike.

There is still a chance I won't like any of them, leaving me stuck with the BMW for a few more years! From a riding perspective no bad thing and in which case like you say I may just have to deal with an FD failure at some point (just rather not have a bike that is such a worry)